Oh boy, this relationship was in trouble from day 1. Relationship born from affairs rarely last. She can justify her behavior because that's how you two met. This has been her pattern before she married you. You need to realize how you two got together was wrong. I'm going to leave it up to the pros here because I don't know how to respond to this. Karma is creeping up on you.

- Jim

Post deleted by stillhopefulh

stillhopefulh, I am by no means a veteran or an expert here, but I read thru your whole thread & want to reach out and grab you.

The hardest thing to learn here, that I learned a year ago and that EVERYONE ELSE has learned, is that no matter how many new details you share here, no matter what W's personality is, no matter how much OM weighs...IT'S ALL THE SAME!! None of us is unique, none of the EAs or PAs differ from the others, none of the steps to save/condemn the M change!

So, expose this A NOW. Come back & ask questions after you do so. She'll get mad, you'll feel you did the wrong thing, and a year from now you will be sitting here like I am & so many others are. There's a lot of help & knowledge & support here, but none of it is IN FAVOR of an A! So expose your W's A, please, you'll be glad you did!!!!! Imagine suddenly finding out what it feels like to do something for yourself - by yourself - and in the interest of saving your marriage!

~Julie

what if the underlying issue is your wife's character?

how will you beat that?

1. I thought you were saying you were at the end of your first marriage when you started the EA with her.

2. You married a flawed woman who believes that EAs are perfectly acceptable. She is repeating her past behavior (when she had an EA on her then BF) now with you.

3. Don't rationalize your past EA. I don't care about the situation but it was wrong. It is that same kind of rationalization (albeit much more out there) that your wife is using to justify her current actions.

I wish you luck, but you will have a long road ahead of you. She has a history of EAs, and it will take some IC to get her to change her behavior. She may have intimacy and commitment issues that lead her to want to jump from one relationship to the next. Even if you do get through this realize that you are at increased risk for another affair to happen.

- Jim

Post deleted by stillhopefulh

Post deleted by stillhopefulh

I don't want it to seem like I am attacking you. I am on YOUR side. I just want you to understand how you got into the situation that you are in. Your WW has a history of EAs. That is how she met you. She doesn't think anything is wrong with an EA and has never done anything to prevent herself from having them. An EA is an EA no matter what the excuse. Even if the reason is different, the rationalization is the same. I'm praying that your situation works out. I just want you to realize it will be more complicated than just stopping this affair because it will likely happen again in the future if no further steps are taken. Right now you need to work on putting together the evidence and exposing to anyone who has the influence to put pressure on her to end the affair. I hope you do what is right and things turn out for the best. Keep posting and we will help you with any questions/problems that may arise.

- Jim

All the history aside, if you are going to play any part in ending this affair, it is going to require exposure.

Exposure must be done with some credible evidence, and be done in concentric circles, telling those who can have the most impact on your WW's decision making in the first blast.

Her parents and siblings should be on the list. Her employer should be on the list, especially if she's using media from work to sustain the affair. Her pastor should be on the list, if she's a member of a church. You should also expose to her closest friends, if you feel they'll react in a responsible and helpful way. Expose the OM to his employer, and to his parents, if you can locate them.

Just do not give any clue that you are about to expose, because as has been said before, they'll pre-empt your exposure, warning everyone you are a jealous idiot throwing rumors around that she's in an affair.

The reason you are getting so many people lined up telling you to expose, is because many people have been on this forum for several years, and we see the same common themes repeat over and over. Many people, not unlike yourself, are terrified of exposure, and the anger they'll receive from their WS. Many others are terrified their WS will just leave, and leave them all alone. I can't think of one case on these forums where exposure caused a WS to leave permanently. Maybe for a week, or even more, but ultimately, they return, when the reality of what they've done finally soaks in. The anger goes away. The OM in your WW's fantasy world is not going anywhere, until you are the catalyst.

Aren't you glad you brought your post over here to GQII? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there... there is always hope. But sometimes you have to get your hands a bit dirty to get hope to float!

SD

I have to chuckle a bit when I read this, as my WW was brought up in a religious family, served as deacon in our church for 5 years, doesn't swear, attends church every Sunday, Circle on Monday, sings in the choir, you get the picture.

Don't for one second underestimate the powerful addiction these affairs can become. Don't, for your own sake!

SD

Yes. Unfortunately religious beliefs are equally expendable in an affair.

Beliefs change to accommodate behaviour.

Post deleted by stillhopefulh

Post deleted by stillhopefulh

You are wrong. WWs fluctuate between wanting to stay in the marriage and wanting to end it. My WW always was a prude (she lost her virginity to me at 21), but that didn't keep her from fooling around on me with her EA partner when she was drunk. I can tell she feels terrible about it and never thought it would happen. She felt she was in control. Your WW is not in as much control as you think. Addictions have a way of getting you to lower your standards. Don't take this too lightly, or your WW will cross the line (if she hasn't already) to a PA.

- Jim

I didn't mean to lean so hard on the religious aspect. My point was this...ANY boundaries, scruples or moral guidelines your WW might have lived within before, are now fair game for her to break. All because of the addiction of the affair.

SD

SD is right. 100% correct. There are many BS's on here for whom their spouse has been their only sexual partner. My wife and I were virgins before we married. Didn't stop her fooling around with OM though. You ignore this at your cost.

Post deleted by stillhopefulh

See SD - here's the thing. stillhopefulh's WS is soooooooooooo different and the rules and issues about the addiction do not apply to his case which is soooooooooo different to everyone else's.

Did you even read what SD said about the power of the addiction?

stillhopefulh, I'm doing it again. I'm screaming at my computer. I want to shake you.

STOP rationalizing this for her! She is doing you wrong, she is disrespecting you and your marriage! It doesn't matter if she takes her clothes off or if she has, it doesn't matter if she ever sees this guy...every time she shares an intimate detail with him she is stepping outside your marriage!!

I know you know this, after all, that's how & why you wound up here!

Listen, this is scary for you because you want the best outcome. Similarly, this is frustrating for 'us' because we've lived, seen & heard it! YES it WILL get worse before it gets better. NO you don't "know" any of us (I do believe that's a good thing!) but unlike your wife and her boyfriend, WE are interested in SAVING YOUR MARRIAGE!!

All this time you've spent here asking questions, all the time we spent reading and then responding, all the time you spent explaining to us how we don't understand because of this, that and the other thing...YOUR WIFE has been spending her time thinking about HER BOYFRIEND. Thinking about the next time she can get an email from him, talk to him on the phone, what she'll wear next time she sees him, and how his arms will feel wrapped around her.

YOU CAN STOP THIS. It's scary. It's hard. Will you do it anyway??

still... this guy's mission is to NAIL your wife.

He probably has others that he's nailing either on a regular or irregular basis.

He has no sense of urgency, and with no one (YOU) taking any action to get in his way, he continues to circle like a buzzard, dropping $$$deposits$$$ into your WW's Love Bank. If she doesn't roll for him this week, so what...there's always next week. But mark my words, he will circle until he sensed the time is exactly right to drop to the ground and have his way with your wife's carcass.

Like water, carving out rock over time, this OM will continue to pressure your W until she crumbles, UNLESS it becomes difficult, painful, too much trouble, or someone runs him over with a car...no, wait, I didn't say that, did I? Just kidding, of course. My point is, you have a serial affair type STALKING your W, just waiting patiently to make the KILL.

If you think you can "trust" her to continue to stick to her virtues after all this time of being teased and taunted, toyed with, drawn deeper and deeper into his control, and this will all fix itself shortly, you are sadly mistaken. Poeple with souls much more virtuous than your W have been drawn into this living ******, MOSTLY because no one knew, or people that did know were standing by doing nothing.

I you read a hundred threads of people who are trying to get help saving their marriages, you will see the very same themes 99 out of the 100 threads. Affairs are so very commonplace in similarity that it makes one wonder there's not a handbook out there somewhere telling people who are in affairs how to act and what to say, because THEY ARE ALL THE SAME.

You cannot think of your WW as her former, usual self. She is now an addict, and much as you think you might, you do NOT KNOW her anymore. We often joke here about aliens taking over their minds, because the behave so differently. You are giving your wife credit for thinking rationally, just like she "always" did, when she is not capable of thinking in "that" way anymore because of the "ADDICTION" to how she feels when the OM drops deposits in her love bank.

If you keep giving her credit for straight thinking, and keep dodging the very credible, tried and true help that's being offered to you on this site by 15 different people, you are going to accomplish 2 things. 1. You will find out soon the A has gone PA, and you will be more devastated than you think, and/or 2. People here will see that you are reluctant, or refuse to follow a program, tried and true many, many times, so they will stop offering you help.

Bottom line... do you want to re-invent the wheel and discover a "new" way to stop affairs and guide damaged marriages into recovery? Or do you want to take the advice of people who have been there/done that/have the bumper sticker who are willing to give you valid points along the way that can expedite your journey?

We all know this is tough. We all know your heart can mess with what your mind is telling you to do. You have gleaned a lot of information in a very short time. Consider the PI to round out what evidence you have now, and while he's doing that, re-read all that been posted to you. Digest it and think it through. Read Surviving an Affair. Digest it and think it through. But try to get this done so you are prepared to EXPOSE before this EA goes PA. You will forever regret it if it goes PA...it is more damaging to you than you might think it will be.

We are here to help. We are not here to direct you to do anything that would be harmful to your efforts in saving your marriage. Most of us are not professionals, but all of us care.

We all need to see some signs that you are ready to HELP YOURSELF!

Best wishes,
SD