** Post Deleted **

I hope this doesn't come across as taking sides but I read an article while I was getting my hair cut in Comalcalco last year about tebolistas/ I didn't know what a tebolista was which is why I got interested in the article. I thought it had something to do with children's T-ball. I was apparently wrong. "Tebol" is how you would pronounce "table" in Spanish. Tebolista's are strippers. The article interviewed several. The girls interviewed were no doubt at the top of their profession. All had been offered many dates, proposals of marriage, etc. A few had boyfriends. Every single one of them said they would never date anyone they met at work. There is no way they would have a relationship with "that" kind of person. (their words - not mine). They did it for the money. Some made upwards of $10,000 per week (without sex). I guess some Mexicans must pay with more than $1 bills. Anyway, a girl with no real education had bought a house for her family, was putting her siblings through school and had a plan to retire in 3 or 4 years. That is a heck of a motivation. People can justify anything. Affairs are just one example. Stripping is another.

100000000000000000% agree.

MEDC, although I agree with your viewpoint overall I don’t agree with your statement above…especially the “scum” part. It’s a gross generalization and judgment IMO. Take children who have been brought up and/or used and/or sold as prostitutes (obviously it goes with sexual abuse) from a very young age as example and never received opportunity and/or outside help to get out of this... They have certainly not “chose” that lifestyle and will indeed feel trapped in those situations...probably they feel they deserve nothing better and obviously lack skills, ability and self-esteem to get out of that rut themselves…and in the process might even become unwilling to get out of it even IF outside help arises… It’s a vicious cycle.

I urge you to get hold of the book “Redeeming love” by Francine Rivers to understand what I’m trying to convey to you here. The book is based on the Bible book Hosea (Hosea was instructed by God to marry a prostitute). "Redeeming love" is a very, very good read and was an eye-opener to me. Before I've read that book I also had such strong and judgmental (almost angry) opinions about prostitutes etc. in general. Now I only feel sorry and sad for those people...and thank God that I is/was fortunate and never had to walk in their shoes and experience that type of pain & self-destruction.

Wow I'd a sworn Suzet posted here. After her goodbye cruel forum post and all. Even her "I don't post here anymore" Go figure.

Well BigK, I can be very stubborn and especially today I’ve decided to NOT give you the satisfaction of disappearing from these boards forever (although I know that’s what you had been aiming for with you attacks and very disrespectful behavior towards me a while ago).

So…sorry for the disappointment…you have failed to drove me of here permanently in spite of your attempts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Cheers, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Actually No Suzet. I actually hoped you would grow a conscience.

I have and always had a very big conscience - you don't know what you are talking about. Actually, I hoped YOU would grow a conscience from your disrespectfull behavior and judgements towards me a while ago. Your inability back then to address & correct the concerns I had about your remarks on my thread just showed to me what kind of person you REALLY are (PUKE!)...and I've realized today to stay permanently of these boards just because of an ******* like you is not worth it.

Please go and pester someone else.

First, if it hasn't already been done, I think someone should coin a term like "americapomorphism" or "ameripomorphism" which is the tendency to apply USA morals and values to the people of all the nations of the planet. I think, to an extent, this thread has to be taken in that context. Even so, I was thinking about something that I know I will get hammered for but then, why should today be any different.

First, where I live, women are supposed to be completely covered except for the face. They cover the face by personal choice or lack of time to have put on make-up that day. Regardless, women are supposed to dress in a form specifically to not attract men. Fast forward to the USA. Women do tend to show themselves off a bit and possibly even more so in Europe. Now move to Latin America. Have you ever been to Venezuela on a weekend?

Oh...my point...yes that...My point is that, with the exception of a particular religion, women in most parts of the world tend to try to dress attractively - but to what purpose? Who are they trying to attract? Expecially married women. Okay stripping is an extreme form of attraction admittedly. But where do you draw the line? A women wants to make herself attractive but if men are attracted, she gets offended. I am not condoning stripping. I am simply saying that stripping is just a normal tendency taken to excess.

Suzet - Idiotville where you seem to be welcomed with open arms is => this way. Did you lose your way?

BigK, I can post where I want (not only on Idiotville) so please stop pestering me. You're threadjacking MEDC's thread with your silly behavior so please stop and show some respect to MEDC and his thread, and stick to the topic at hand e.g. strippers and prostitutes.

Thank you very much.

Sorry for the T/J MEDC, I hope it will stop now.

I was right Suzet - I am sure you are quite at home here.

From Penalty Kill


Very interesting. When I first began posting here, I explained that long before I was unfaithful to my H, he visited strip joints. I made no secret of the fact that it hurt. He maintained, and still maintains, that it wasn’t cheating, because no sex took place. He did this for years, beginning in the first year of our marriage. It wasn’t often, but it was often enough. The lap dance was the last straw. I snapped.

When I revealed my infidelity, I told him that the strip clubs (and the monthly porn) contributed to the state of our marriage before the infidelity. I realized that his continuing to go and continuing to dismiss my objections led me, ultimately, to feel less and less respect for him.

And, co-dependant that I am, I took my self-worth from him. I had less respect for myself as well. How worthy was I, if my concerns could be dismissed in favor of some male entertainment with his friends? I didn’t care when he told me I was better looking. Pfft. When one of his friends came over, and they started talking about clubs, the friend said “Why do you go there? You’ve got one of those at home”.

He said it while looking at me. Classic player maneuver. All I felt was a white-hot rage toward my H for making excuses to hurt me. I hadn’t worked up to infidelity yet.

I will never forget how I felt making breakfast for a bunch of visiting yahoos and listening to them rave about the women at Scores. I was still lactating.

When I posted this here, I was eviscerated. My H’s infidelity was nothing, nothing compared to mine. Strip clubs? Why, it wasn’t even infidelity! How dare I compare one to the other? It added fuel to my H’s fire, which has thankfully been dampened by reason. He's made progress. At least he will admit that he was "insensitive".

Well, I wasn’t comparing. I was talking about how his behavior set the stage for my adultery. I was still the player, and I never lost sight of that. No one was pulling this puppet’s strings. I acted alone and take responsibility for my actions. And I stopped them when I started hating myself.

And I will mention that I think it is ridiculous to judge someone in whose shoes you haven’t walked. I know a woman who stripped. She didn’t turn tricks. She had a son to fend for; her husband died in a motorcycle accident.

She beat a drug addiction, she’s clean and sober. She got her nurse’s credentials and teaches skating part-time. She stripped when she did these things. Now she doesn’t have to. Good on her.

Oh. Her father’s profession? Cop. Chief of Police, to be exact.

PK, you know what? Your husband was totally disrespecting you. And I defended your perspective when everyone else jumped on you, remember?

All:
My husband used to go to strip clubs too, and oddly never had an affair back then, not even a one-night-stand, but he went with my blessing, I really didn't have a problem with it, considering my own history I felt I knew what it was all about. His affair came after he had quit occasionally going to strip clubs altogether. I personally never met a stripper who didn't consider it a temporary solution.

For anyone who thinks stripping equals prostitution, here's a little something to chew on:
economics of prostitution

Of course my opinion doesn't count since I was a stripper in Philly (didn't do drugs then), and later a drug addict, and much later the BETRAYED SPOUSE. I also served the US Air Force--and have an Honorable Discharge--to protect your rights.

Go ahead stone me, whichever of you is without sin. I'd put my integrity up against any of yours.

And your point is what? It is silly to suggest that we cannot judge another unless we have walked in their shoes. I didn't have the same life experiences as a mass murderer... yet, I think it is safe to say that I can judge their behavior as incorrect. Nor have I walked in the shoes of a WW (note, WW... not FWW) yet I think it is safe to say that they are acting rather slutty during this time. Same with dancers... they can change and get out of the "porn" industry. But the "I needed money" act is the same thing that young drug dealers can argue... it is a way to get out of the ghetto.
My point on this thread... which has been lost is that MARRIED people are targeted just as much as single people by these "sex vultures" whose only objective is to get their money. To me, that is scum... it's not a life long sentence if someone decides to change... same with adultery.
So, PK... she may not have turned tricks in the strictest sense of the word... but she did use her sexuality on single and married men alike in order to make money. And in my opinion... when someone is shaking her breasts in the face of married men... well, until that behavior stops, she is no better than a prostitute.
As far as your H visiting strip clubs... it is not the same as having an A (unless he got a lap dance). But there are similarities....it lacks the emotional attachment yet there are similar components if it is something done against the W's wishes. Your H was insensitive... but he did not have sex with one of those strippers... to the best of my knowledge.... you had sex with your A partner. You do make some valid points and perhaps your views should have been given more credibility. I seem to remember something about this... or maybe I am remembering wrong... but maybe you got skewered because people thought you were trying to justify your own behaviors by talking about your H's actions. That never goes over well on these boards.

10S
Delaware Ave in Philly... where some of the more upscale "establishments" were is notorius for prostitution... it's just not the same type as 14 blocks away on Broad Street.... where the crack addicts are performing their services for 10 bucks. But there are a lot of strippers from that area that have records.... it happens a lot. It just happens that their clients are more upscale and the crime is hidden even more.
But shaking your naked or almost naked body in front of men (married or not) in a sexually suggestive way is IMHO, prostitution. And thank you for fighting for our rights. But for you to include that in this discussion seems to cheapen your sacrifice for our country. If you are implying that going to watch a naked dancer is a right... you are sadly mistaken. It is part of the decay of a society that doesn't know when to say when concerning "rights." So, we now have gays marrying.... pedophile groups defended by the ACLU...and others exercising their "rights" in the most destructive ways imaginable.

No, I was just offering my service, which included a commendation for service above and beyond the call of duty, as a point illustrating the depth of my character regardless of poor choices I have made, I've always been a "good" person at my core. My actions, like everyone else's in the world, have sometimes failed that core.

Your friend's girlfriend could be just using this as a stepping stone, a means to an end. Is that "good", probably not her best choice. Does it define her? I don't think it has to. When I riunited with my husband after our 96-day separation, I immediately stopped. But I was actually working in advertising agency by day, and moonlighting on the weekends, because I did need to survive without my husband while we were separated, and I wanted to prove a point to him. He put me out of our home. I was not cheating on him. I was depressed and mourning and a little bit suicidal (just very briefly), and he put me out of our home.

The unfairness of that still tics me off but I still didn't sleep with any of the men in Delilah's Den.

One of the BIG offenders!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10S... I am not questioning your character now. I will say however that you did not have to strip and leave it at that. And you KNOW that not all of the dancers from that "establishment" were as behaved as you. 10S... did you perform lap dances? Do you now look back and know that if you did those that you were in fact being rented out as the OW even if only for 10 minutes? You have a unique perspective on this... as do I... and I am curious to hear what your perspective is rather than just the defensive posture you are taking.



Do you really believe this? Do you not see that her acting sexually with a married man defines her?

It’s important to keep in mind here that the people who decide to visit those places are no victims. Married (or single) people can’t be targeted if they don’t ALLOW themselves to be targeted and be exposed to that type of things. It’s a choice. Therefore, IMO married people who actually go out to visit those places (and especially keep it secret from their spouses) behave much more “scummy” than the dancers/strippers themselves because it’s the MARRIED PERSON (and not the dancer/stripper) who’ve made vows in front of the altar and their spouse and they are suppose to know better and not justify, rationalize and minimize their cheating behavior. The same goes for people who visit prostitutes.

Why are you disappointed in him ? On what "fronts" specifically?



(A) Do you really want various opinions? Or just comments from like-minded people so you have more ammunition to fire at your friend?

and...

(B) Why are you going to speak with him "in depth"? Did he ask your opinion? Or do you just have this insatiable desire to tell your friends how to run their lives?