I know it is tough. Keep it up. She won't be able to keep this up for a whole year. You just keep doing the right thing, and God will take care of the rest. Just keep us updated.

WW wanted to talk about custody issues today because she would rather us work out an agreement rather than the courts decide for us. I listened to what she had to day, because I would like to be able to work this out like adults. Plus her and her mom both said it may be possible that neither of us would get custody of the kids. Excuse me, but I am not sure hoe someone could look at my situation - being in the home, kids in school and church, and around their friends - and say that I am not in a good position to have custody?

Well, her idea is that the kids could become extremely confused about being shuttled around so much since she would have them during the day and I have them at night, implying that it would be better for her to have primary custody rather than me. Of course she threw out that maybe once or twice a week the kids could stay with me at night because she has always been open to visitation, and the only reason she did not let me see them for those 3 weeks around Christmas was because she was scared of me - scared that I had hired a PI, scared that I had recorded our conversations, scared that I would take them back away from her. I am wondering if its more that she is scared that I took a stand for our marriage when she expected me to just let it die off.

I am also wondering if this is a ploy to on her part because she is afraid that I really could get full custody. Mortarman, you may have hit the nail on the head when you said that the way back for my wife is what she sees with my care and protection of the kids.

It is a ploy. She lost custody...but wants you to get scared and give in. Do not give in! Tell her that right now, you are for your marriage and want to talk reconciliation and working on the marriage. She will balk at that of course...but Eph, you are goingto have to stay consistent and stay on message. by the way, when is the next hearing? Until then, you need to solidify your position as the primary parent and show that the judge did make the right decision. You're gonna have to work overtime at this to make sure you get everything done. But for your kids...and for your marriage...you are going to have to do it.


Of course she would say this! How funny!


She didnt know anything about recording conversations until last week. Eph...this statement was a boldfaced lie by her! She was not scared of you!!


I vote for this one!!


Ding, ding, ding! You hit the jackpot!!


I know because I lived it, Eph!!! As we say in the Army...just start leaning forward in the foxhole!

Eph.... So I will post my weeks court update her and then in a seperate post. I hope this gives you strength it did me.

So I have been seperated 9 months operating off a very week LSA, which on paper gave me every other weekend and 2 days a week visitation.. in reality I had 80% of their time. each week.... So we were scheduled for 2 full days of trial this week Thur-Fri. Went to court on Thursday to find out her attorney's kids had the stomach flu..... so we didn't start until Friday and we would have to finish the second day up on another day on the courts calendar..... So friday we started the trial of our lives.

Friday - first on the stand was a friend of my WW's... known her 9 years seen and heard everything my WW has said and done... She presented a great picture of my wayward, calling her a cameleon - changing her identity to match the group she was hanging out with it was very powerful testimony. Then I got on the stand for an hour and half and then got crossed by her lawyer... can we say throwing things up to see what sticks.... which nothing did.

So we we break for lunch and come back at 2 to finish with another former friend of her's - who is our church's secretary, her former boss at a church pre-school, and a 10 year neighbor of ours.... well we sit down at 2pm waiting for the judge, then the lawyer's are summoned to the judges chamber's. I turned aroun to my sister who flew out from washington state to watch all this and told her, the judge is calling the case... I said its probably over... 40 minutes later my lawyer comes back and pull's me into a small room and said that the judge wants this ended, wants to start out with 50/50 custody..... which is what I asked her for 9 months ago... So she is a bit devistated... fantasy land came crashing down on her, she was wanting full custody so she could control and manipulate me, now we have a fair plan from the courts that I don't have to worry about her pulling any crap on me....

So stick to your guns and if you have to go all the way to the courts and even further towards D don't look back show her and her mom the lighthouse.

The guys above are dead on.

You did good.

Though you don't talk divorce/custody...it's not a bad idea to listen sometimes for a couple of reasons.

1. You get their battle plan
2. You meet her need for communication in your Plan A

Just don't respond to it. Lots of mmmmm's maybe

HOWEVER... "working it out like adults"

AIN'T GONNA WORK

1. She's an addicted wayward in full entitlement zone...she's INCAPABLE of negotiating like an adult

2. Do you think you could "negotiate like adults" with a crack-head?. NO WAY

3. Protecting her from rock-bottom is enabling behavior by you

4. YOU are the only fit parent NOW (I'm certain she was fit prior to all this and might be fit again, this is NOT some vindictive game, it's just the way it is right NOW)

Stay strong...you are in a very strong position. Reverse babble...if she thinks it would be better for the kids that they NOT be shuttled around then deny her access to them outside the marital home on ALL your days with them under the temporary order (don't speak to her about the permanent order/final hearing/divorce...stick with TODAY).

Mr. Wondering

Next time she wants to get into one of these "negotiating talks", I'd put my hand up and end it by saying,

I will never forget what it was like to go three weeks without seeing my children - I will never forget the pain that only a parent knows when the other parent has acted unreasonably and used the children as a weapon against them during the Christmas season. Your attack against me and the children was felt; I will ensure that our children know that I stand up for their family, not acting out of vengeance but ensuring that their children have their real father in their lives.

Well, WW called this morning about wanting to watch the kids during the day in the marital home until she gets in her new place. Funny, because Sunday when that was brought up she did not want to do it for fear of confusing the kids. Her statement today was she did not want anyone to think she did not want to spend time with her kids or for it to be miconstrued that way.

I think she is not happy with the consequences of her actions right now.

Why does she have to watch the kids in the marital home? What amount of custody was she awarded by the court (daytime while you are at work)? Why doesn't she have a job yet?

I smell something rotten. I don't like her not having real life responsibilities like a job. She could use all of this against you in court. Example: Get's away from OM temporarily (no plans to stay away), get's IC, spends more time with children than court awarded declaring herself as primary custodian, seeks CS and spousal support from you, tells Judge that she can be at home to care for the children while you have to work so that you can send her a check (while she plays house with OM) and see your children 4 nights per month or at best every other week.

I don't like it others might.

Here's the problem...

If you were headed to divorce (and not interested in saving your marriage), then I'd say "no way" to letting her watch them in the house. If it is her time, then she gets them. If it isnt her time, then she doesnt. If you allow her to watch the kids during your time, you WILL undermine your custody!

That being said, since you have said you want to save the marriage...and you are not in Plan B right now...then you have to be able to Plan A her. And maybe letting her watch the kids on HER TIME in your home, may be the way to go. It keeps her in the house for a little while, with the kids. All the while, she knows she lost. So, looking around the house and being there, knowing hsei s choosing to leave...and leave the kids...should be very tough on her.

But, again...there are risks! She could use that time to take stuff out of the house. Or to get more time than she was given by the court. or even try to portray you as not being able to take care of the kids. These things are all possible.

I would check with your attorney. In my case, I won custody the first time...and then we reconciled. No more OM...and 18 months of us together in the same house...we ended up back in court. But, in the end...the second hearing went almost the same as the first. Why? Because during all of it...while she was with me and while she was gone...I made sure that I was the guy doing the work with the kids. My wife had a track record with the court...abandonment, adultery, etc. She wasnt going to escape that with a few months of flying right.

So, check with your attorney. I think if you keep your eyes open...make sure you document everything...and make sure she doesnt get one second of your time with them alone...then I dont think you will have too much of a problem.

But, as I said...check with your attorney!

This certainly is a double-edged sword.

Thinking aloud...perhaps you can suggest that she contact her attorney and write it up for presentation to your attorney. This is a consequence in itself and an documented indication that she's doing the requesting and you are doing the decision making for those kids. It also keeps you from negotiating custody issues with your wife and places that with your attorney who can and will insert certain conditions upon such visitation.

Verbal agreements are a no-no.

What happens if you ever desire to go to Plan B???

Mr. Wondering

Eph,

Mr. W, MM and I are close in how we see this......Ups, downs, risks, rewards, etc.

What I still don't understand is why is you WW NOT EMPLOYED (or does she work the night shift and I missed it?) She needs a dose of the real world and NOW. It also will help you in custody case if it goes to court or M is not saved. She will not be able to state how much time she has available to spend with the children in lieu of a nanny, child care, after school program, grandparents, etc....
How is she paying her bills (you paying them?)? Make her accept responsibility for her own finances.

OK, just to explain some more.

She is waiting to hear back on the house she is wanting to rent. She hopes to move in this weekend.

She is not currently working. Her plan is to do in-home child care. Obviously that will not bring as much in as if she was working outside the home. Maybe she thinks she can live off my $940 CS payment plus whatever else she brings in (maybe an extra $200 - $300). I was also ordered to pay the lease on the van she has, plus the insurance, so that is not an expense she has to worry about. She probably could find a way to make it.

So, the arrangement as it is now is that, once in her house, I would take DS5 to school at 8:30am and drop DD3 off at her place. She would pick up DS5 from school at 1:45pm, then have them both at home until approx 5pm when I would get them and take them home with me. From a timing perspective, I would have them from 5pm - 8:30am the next day (15.5 hours), she would have them for 8.5 hours.

So, she is wanting to fulfill her role this week but would need to do it in the marital home becuase her current housing is in NC. So it's not like she is taking any time away from me.

Let me know if that make it any clearer. Thanks for the tips, and I will check with my attorney.

Quick tip

For IRS purposes...where they spend the night IS more important than the actual hours spent....so you are good there.

I wonder if the court would frown on you NOT allowing your wife to care for your child in her "in-home" care business??. Perhaps even "in-home" daycare needs to be licensed in your state and meet minimum standards and your viable excuse would be that you determined it's not suitable for you children and you prefer them at a licensed facility OR your home...while you work.

Might be a consideration depending on where you are at in time.

Remember...if and when this is all final you can choose to make any arrangement you want (with the caveat that you don't set yourself up for another round of custody hearings later). Listen to your attorney and hide behind his/her advice if need be.

W

I agree, and I am definitley trying to save our M. Of course she could care less, but I am doing it because it is what I want to do and I believe in all my heart is is the right thing to do now. How long? We will see.


I agree. Even if it is for only 3 days this week. She will have to get up at the crack of dawn to be at the house by 8am. She will see how we (kids and I) are trying to make the house our home. She will have to leave in the evening.


Yes, I am concerned about taking things from the house. As I described above, she won't be getting any more time than what the arrangement is now, and it would be a real stretch to portray me as not being able to take care of them. They lack nothing except their mother, my wife, in the home every night.


Eyes and ears are open and hands are writing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Eph,

Okay I get it a little better BUT here is what I don't get?

1. You have primary custody BUT you pay her CS of $940.00 per month.
My Question: Why? Secondly, would you have to pay her this CS if she would get a real job, 40 hours per week with benefits and responsibilities and such. Does she have any education? Are there no job opportunities where you live?
Why does she get to sit around collect chil support, potentially involve your children in what in effect will be a day care facility, potentially have OM come around during the day and before you pick up the children, and then pretend that she somehow is the primary caregiver when you return to court by saying that you only care for them a few hours before bed time (she's doing homework, bathing, lunch, dinner, etc) I may be way off here but I don't get why she doesn't have to go out like the rest of the world and get a real life job.


In short, it seems to me that you have the burden of keeping your WW up while she has a BF and prepares a case for her being the children's primary caregiver for final court hearing if M is not saved. Help me understand. I could be missing something.

Hope & Pray,

I have custody the majority of time with my kids. The reason in Virginia (and I am guessing it is the same in South Carolina) is that of how much each party makes. I have the kids 65% of the time...but pay my wife $300 a month (at the time, I made more then her...just a little more). It's all based on a formula in the law.

Yep, if she would get a real job and have signficant income the my CS payment would go down or go away completely. She has a BA in Psychology


I don't get this either. Right now, it's a simple mathematical formula that says my income is X, hers is Y, X is significanly bigger than Y, so I have a CS payment. Right now she wants to stay home with the kids just like when we were together. I don't think reality has set in yet for her.


My thoughts exactly, but I am taking the high road here and doing what is right. Don't get me wrong, I am making my own case for why I should be the primary caregiver should things not work out. As I mentioned earlier, I think she is scared she may not get custody and that is why she wants to wheel-and-deal so soon after the first court hearing.

You know, I can't say I always understand how God works, but I know he does. It's evident that his hand is all over what has happened so far. I'll be OK, he will make sure of that.

I understand that MM and recall your sitch perfectly. BUT, your wife holds down a job, a real job, (not picking up aluminum cans or something). Wy does Eph's WW get a free pass not to have a real job that requires her to be at work 40 plus hours a week? If she did would he have to pay as much or any depending on her new income level?

What I am more concerned about is her somehow appearing to clean her act up a while, start documenting her time with the children (bathing, teaching, playing, feeding, etc) vs. Eph who has to work a full time job and only has the children about 4 waking hours per night. If she already has them fed, bathed, etc when he picks them up she is going to say he is just a glorified babysitter for a few hours a night??

She is only able to collect the $940 or at least that much because she is unemployed. She also would have to make arrangements for a support system, pay a nanny, after school care, etc if it wasn't so convienent for her to keep the children during the day (because she doesn't work).

I could still be missing this but I am worried about how she and attorney may try to spin this if it goes to court.

Okay. I am not as far off on this as I was beginning to think. I am pretty much right on.

If she would use her 4 yr degree to get a real job making some decent money not only might you not have to pay her CS but she would also have to change her custody to something more akin to traditional visitation or every other weekend given you were awarded temp. custody of the children. I vote for this in case things don't work out. There should be some push in my mind from your attorney to hers or something for her to get a job (heck, send copies of job openings that she would be qualified for, etc.)

I'm no financial genius, but she will never make it on child support and day care. I forget what apartments run where you live, but the money is just not there.

I would encourage her to get a real job.