BTW...YOU are not "doing" this to her. You are not taking the kids away from her. Don't allow yourself to feel sorry for her, this is clearly her choice.

Also, don't rely on her for medical issues. She may document that on you...take charge and handle them, keeping her informed, of course.

Right now...she's saying to OM and anyone else that will listen ..."WH can't handle the kids, DS5 is sick and he's calling me wondering what to do, just another example of how helpless/worthless/undeserving he is...sheeesh"

The correct thing for you to say to her about any illness or similiar issue is "I'll handle it". If she wants to be a part of the family she merely has to give up her boyfriend and come home....until then they are YOUR family and you handle everything. YOU CAN DO IT.

Mr. Wondering

edited to add: I don't know that you actually did the above but I am reminding you anyway.

Amen to Mr Wondering's post.....YOU have the task of taking care of the children. There are other people that you can count on to help other than WW. Don't give her any ammunition regarding "helping" because you "can't handle it". She will use this against you in court.

I never call EX WW about the children and daily happenings unless I am calling to tell her that he is sick and I have and am doing this to treat him and that I will keep her posted and she's welcome to call and check on him or that I will call her if there are any significant changes.

I hope you can do some brainstorming and come up with someone to watch the children when they are sick. As a mom who raised little ones alone, that was always a nightmare.

I had no friends who wanted to watch sick kids, and didn't want to send them to daycare when ill, so I ended up taking a lot of time off work. I even got "counseled" about taking too much time off.

That is one thing about our society that is so unfair to parents. Now that my kids are grown, I have over a year of leave available (same job). When I needed it as a young mom, it was a constant problem.

WW came over this afternoon to check in on the kids and see how DS5 was doing. She sat with them and read a book to DD3 and then playes chase with DD3.

Then it happened - she saw my voice recorder sitting on the bar in the kitchen (I normally carry it in my pocket and had ust left it out) and asked what it was for. I thought 'Oh, no. Here we go." She asked if I had recorded any of our conversations and I just said yes (I don't care if she is a WW I cannot bring myself to lie to her - it used to be easy and I didn't think twice about it). This led into statements like "How do you think this will win me back?" and "How do you expect me to feel comfortable talking to you now?" Then she moved into addressing specific issues brought up in our affidavits - explaining the reason for being put on BC, explaining the reason for the preg tests, explaining that OM went with her to provide moral support, bringing up issues I need to address about myself, lack of trust, I see things as black or white, etc.

I just agreed that there were issues that needed to be addressed and I was ready to do it and that I had already started. She said something about "So I am supposed to be ready because you are ready after all this time of ignoring them?" I just said it could be done if we commit to it. Our family is worth it.

Not sure if this is significant, but she was the one initiating the relationship talks this time. Almost like she wanted to engage but just stayed on the fringe.

Sorry I feel like I just rambled on and on. I am just trying to get through all the negative emotions right now and see if there are any positived to be found.

Oh, she called me several times today while she was out looking for a place to live. I mentioned several times we had a bedroom available for her here at home.

Another strange thing - the kids do not want to talk to her on the phone. AS best I could tell, the kids were so excited to talk to me whenever I called her to talk to them thise three weeks.

Stop mentioning the available bedroom. She knows that she has a place with you. She still is denying, explaining, blah, blah, blah.

She needs to get rid of the OM, and her problems are on their way to being solved.

I definitely took the approach of telling her I had everything under control. She recommended what she would do first, and I said "Yes I had already thought exactly the same thing." The message was clear that I have things under control.

WW called again today. She is still looking for a place and is upset at the costs. She is dead set on getting a 3BR place and it's going to run about $800 for something not in a bad location. I told her she sould try to find a 2BR place or an apartment but she thinks this will be used against her when determining custody. Again, things that should have been thought about before her lawyer jumped up and said she would be down here by this weekend.

Part of me feels bad for her, but part of me does not. I guess I need to take heed of the quote in somebody's sigature that says something like not taking responsibility for other people's actions.

That's correct, Eph, she has some VERY important lessons she needs to learn. And she can't learn them if you are there to cushion the blow. I know it's hard to watch someone you love crash, but she needs this. She really does.

You love those little ones and keep working your Plan A.

~ Marsh

So she gets a 3 BR house. What then?

1. She's got to get a full time job to pay for the expensive home which results in less time with kids.

2. Because she makes more money, the formula for CS results in you having to pay less money to her for the any and all custody she is ultimately awarded.

3. She ends up putting herself on equal status with you availability wise....(ie - you both have full time jobs)

4. She has less time and energy for OM

5. A big dose of reality...real life consequences, not at all inflicted by you, for her big girl immoral choices.

She is way to focused upon 1 factor in the custody battle and ignoring the big picture. It is sad, but sometimes the the loving thing to do is to allow the wrong-do'er/addict fully incur the consequences of their poor choices. Protecting them for hitting rock-bottom only results in enabling the behavior that is hurtful to everyone including her. Stay out of the way not only so can "fall" but also so she can't blame you when it happens.

Additionally, be wary of the false recovery...she can come home if and when she gives up OM...forever. No promises to give a "try". She must walk the walk...with action, not promises to get her life back. The addict will often look for the path of least resistance to maintain their addiction...don't be that path. Maintain a wall of resistance with the stick of plan A and firm boundaries.

Mr. Wondering

Yes, it is very hard to see someone you love crash.

Just curious about a few things I thought about:

1. Could she be starting to move from withdrawal to conflict? She made several statements using "we" rather than "I" or "you".
2. Any meaning to the fact that yesterday she wore one of the outfits I gave her for Christmas?
3. Now that the kids are here, she has called everyday. Mainly about looking for a place to stay, but she calls me.

I don't know, maybe I am trying to make something out of nothing.

More later.....

Bumping for faithful follower

WW asked how the things I have done lately (hiring PI to follow her, everything in my affidavit about her and OM, her medications, her ED, things she felt were personal attacks) are in line with what 1 Corinthians 13 says love is, referring specifically to the points about love not being self seeking and keeping no record of wrong.

I got caught off guard by that, but then was guided to remember that it also says love rejoices in the truth (trying to find out about the A), love always protects (I am protecting the family), and love never fails(she should not want to give up on our M). I want to come back to these points with her in a later discussion.

It was interesting that she would pick and choose what she felt suited her.

Tell her that your love is not self seeking, it is for the children, and you are not keeping record of wrong in your heart, you are just obtaining the truth to protect your family. Her wrongs will be forgiven when she repents and comes back to God and her family.

Great points, Jim. I was updating my post to list these specific points.

Dude, if your wife would make MB principles a part of her life like you have you would have an awesome M.

Now, don't let her read this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thats really cute that she is trotting out the Bible to manipulate you into feeling guilty for CATCHING HER. I wonder, perchance, if she happened to read the part in the Bible about ADULTERY? As in, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY. Did she happen to see that little verse? Or is she on the cafeteria plan? lol

Secondly, there is nothing "unloving" about catching your W committing adultery. It was an act of Christian love to hire a PI and catch her. Unfortunately, you were forced to mention her dirty deeds in your custody papers in order to protect you and the kids from her. Sad that you were put in this position by her.

Ephesians 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.



Why? She is not bringing this up in an effort to LEARN, but rather in an effort to MANIPULATE.

So, instead of giving her underhanded premise some undeserved credibility, the next time she plays the Bible card to shut you down, just flash these cards:

Proverbs 2:12-18
Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men,
from men whose words are perverse, who leave the straight paths to walk in dark ways, who delight in doing wrong and rejoice in the perverseness of evil, whose paths are crooked and who are devious in their ways.

It will save you also from the adulteress, from the wayward wife with her seductive words, who has left the partner of her youth and ignored the covenant she made before God. For her house leads down to death and her paths to the spirits of the dead.

Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery..."

Amazing how a WW can turn the Bible on it's head and point fingers at a BS, isn't it?

Excellent post, Mel!

~ Marsh

Eph,

Great advice from everyone. And overall, you are doing well. I really think that the wya back for your wife is what she sees with your care and protection of your kids.

So, she has never really been away from them, huh? Okay! This is good...because the level of her loneliness will be severe...a level that the OM cannot hope to fill.

I am putting this in my update...but wanted to add it here because it is important to your sitch.

Yesterday, my wife and I went out and had a drink and while we talked, I asked her what it was that made her want to call this fall...and that is finally making her believe in us and in these principles.

She told me that the one thing that she noticed the most was my care of the kids. She said as she considered moving on after our court session last July, she began to realize that no one would ever ever love her kids as I do. Some of these guys that wanted to date her were glad she had Thursday through Monday free. It was as if she was single, to them. But that didnt sit well with her.

Added to that, she would hear about all of the things I did with the kids. The fact I never asked her for help...with anything related to them. As she said last night...that I did it all by myself.

Eph, I think your wife is going to miss your kids a lot!! As Mr. W said, even if she gets the big 3BR apartment or house, she is going to have to work. Which means a lot of hours away from home. Which means she will have little time for those kids. And that will make her even lonelier.

Added to that, she will see you and the kids continuing the family. You will be handling things without her help. The kids will be safe in their rooms at night. They will be engaged in activities with you. And all of this without her.

You need not remind her of all of this. She can see it!! She is now going to have to let it flush through.

My advice is no more helping her (your counseling concerning her apartment, for example). Right now, just Plan A her. Let her come over and have fun with the kids (and you). Make a nice dinner and invite her to stay and eat. But dont let her "do" anything. No letting her help bathe the kids before she leaves. If she wants to hang out longer, have her sit on the couch and watch TV while you get the kids ready for bed. Stuff like that!

I know this is hard. I had to do the same...when my wife was the SAHM. My MIL said she gave me 30 days before I cried "uncle." But one thing my wife mentioned last night is true...it was this time that I had them all by myself that I really got to know my kids. Better than I probably would have had she been there.

Your kids need this. You need this. And your wife needs to see you do this.

You are doing well. Understand this is a process. Her questions are just there to allow you to plant seeds of truth. Eventually, if you are consistent...my bet is she will see the truth and be back.

OK, a few more updates from this week.

WW continues to say there has been no PA with OM. Even though there has been EA, she still says that is not one of the reasons why she wants out of the M and continues to look at the laundry list of things I either did or did not do in our 8 years of marriage. I have agreed with the things she mentions and I said that I am working on some of those very things now in IC. I really have to bit my tongue to not get into my own laundry list for her. That is so hard!!

WW signed application to rent the house on Thursday. I did not have to sign anything except a statement that I am ordered to pay her CS every month that is enough to cover the rent. WW then said on Fri. that she may need me to co-sign to verify income. I have not agreed to do that, and frankly I won't because that would be supporting her desire to be apart.

If/when WW moves into the house, her plan is to do in-home child care for income so she does not have to leave the house. She will probably start keeping our neighbors little girl again for $200/month like she was doing before she moved out.

MIL asked me in a private conversation if it would be so bad if WW and the kids were in NC. I said I want and desire to be a part of my kids lives, and I do not want to be an every other weekend father and that is not in their best interests. She backed off after that.

I also learned about how God answered a prayer for me through all this. I have been praying through all this that God would close all the doors to WW living a life apart from me, and as part of that I prayed for blindness on the part of her lawyer. Well, WW told me that her lawyer told her that she did not have to let me see the kids without any agreement in place. I talked to BIL today and he said that WW withheld information from her lawyer until about an hour before the court appearance (probably info about OM and such). That sure seems like blindness to me.

I am really gearing up my plan A moving forward. Hopefully this week will go well since my son is finally feeling better.

"WW continues to say there has been no PA with OM. Even though there has been EA, she still says that is not one of the reasons why she wants out of the M and continues to look at the laundry list of things I either did or did not do in our 8 years of marriage"

This is just the regular foggy stuff that they spout. No woman keeps her kids from their father like she did over reasons like this.

I think there IS an active affair. Also I think it will end for good when she has to make it on her own.

I don't know her financial particulars, but rent is just one part of a separate residence. There are also utilities, phone, cable, gas, car upkeep, food, etc.

What I pay for my home is just a third of my monthly living expenses.