Sexual abuse of a boy causes UTI???? WTF. A girl, yes but a boy????

She's staging the question so she can honestly say to the GAL "I even had to ask him whether he'd abused our son...he followed up with the doctor about the appointment which he has never done before...it all just looks suspicious to me, I'll keep my eyes on this GAL"

What total crap.

Have you exposed her to your church elders and clergy??? They may have procedures for calling her out. They shouldn't allow her presence in the flock....lest she corrupt the flock. There are bibilical procedures for this.
I even think you have a duty to disclose this to them.

I wish you had a relationship with someone that could come visit you and just happen to be available to watch your children that week. Then you call WW and inform her you don't need her daycare services that week but she's free to come over and visit the kids in the evenings when you are home. Perhaps if you have vacation time coming you could take a trip with the kids...invite her along, then just go visit someone. Thus, fully exercising your authority and rightfully so. Nothing vindictive, she can come along if she chooses. Document the invitation.

Mr. Wondering

Calling Steve Harley again is a good idea.

Eph,

I would repeat this back to the WAYWARD ....She said "it was a shame we could not trust each other about the care of our kids, and mentioned that I never followed up before."

I would have said....I hear you say that in one breath and in the next you ask me if I have harmed our son. I would say that trust has been pretty well destroyed by your past and present actions. I hope you see the irony in your two statements. Have a good day.

I scheduled a face-to-face with the GAL for Wednesday.

I am in contact with some of the church leaders about just reaching out to her about everything. I also asked a few ladies who she developed a somewhat close relationship with about reaching out to her as well. I think it would be good for her to be in contact with more people who would encourage her not to give up on the marriage, address the A for what it is, and start recovery - true recovery this time.

It was just another answered prayer that she was even in church to begin with. Even if she had other motives for being there, she was there and God can reach her.

Eph,

She needs to be called on the carpet for what she's done and is probably STILL doing.

Talking to nice church ladies is not as helpful as if the leaders in your church exercised church discipline.

She still doesn't have a clue that what she's doing is/was wrong.

That question she asked you about your son has me furious! Plan A or no Plan A, I'd have laid into her for that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

~ Marsh

She most likely went to church strictly for the GAL.

She wanted to ward off the argument that YOU are the one taking the kids and she is not involved at all.

Church discipline should make that desire rather difficult and uncomfortable for her to accomplish

Mr. Wondering

I talked through some of this in IC today.

Marsh - I see the folly in her question. If she REALLY believed in her heart there was any possibility of something going on, she would not have asked it in such a non-emotional way. She would have been extremely emotional about such a thing. I've seen it before when the fear was real about someone else. But I did ask her if she had done anything; after all it is typical that abused people turn into abusers themselves. Quite a yucky cycle.

Mr. W - agree about her actions being for the GAL, but I still believe and will pray that God can reach her despite that.

I'll find out more about the church discipline aspects.

Something else I have been considering is deeper exposure in her family. I have a great relationship with everyone in her family and I think they could exert more pressure on her, especially her grandmother and great grandmother. AFAIK, only her mom and her brother know what is going on and she has not been in contact with anyone else.

The reason I mention this is because, along the lines of what Mr. W said about a trip, I was considering taking the kids to see their great-great grandmother (WW's great grandmother) for our next weekend together.

Bumping for my question above about deeper exposure in WW's family.

Still spying as best I can, confirmed EA but still no proof of PA (my gut says yes as does the collective guts here on MB)

Eph,

you could expose more. And it may have some effect now. But I think your best energy right now is trying to put some deposits in her love bank...and at the same time...protecting yourself and kids (the family) legally.

One of your IL's greatest fears is you winning custody and them being substantially cut out of their grandchildren's lives. So...I think a trip to see them may be good. Fun stuff that WW misses out on (she'll be invited, of course) plus you exercise your custody rights to the children (not vindictively...she was invited along). You get to demonstrate to the GAL that FAMILY is important to you and maintaining contact with WW's family is going to continue. In light of her withholding the kids from you over christmas the disparity in ACTIONS should be key to the GAL.

All in all...trip a good idea.

Exposure to extended family. A little. WW will likely feel that is the sole purpose of your trip. To taint her family against her (waywards always think EVERYTHING is about them). She will likely call around to them all to give HER side of the story...before you even arrive. Thus, DON'T make the trip anything about that. If it's brought up you just indicate YOU are fighting for your family, love your WW and hope this all turns around quickly. Their prayers would be appreciated and allow them to see you as a prayerful man. IF they ask questions, answer them. But that is not why you are visiting.

Mr. Wondering

Mr.W

The idea of the trip was, as you said, to maintain contact with the only other family members my kids know (remember above I mentioned the estrangement from my own family).

The exposure asapect was in the event that questions get asked because I know they will. So do I say "W does not want to be married anymore" or "W wanted out of the marriage and she is seeing OM"? I guess just tell the truth.

Just the truth

No vindication

Maitaining your composure and remaining hopeful

Don't involve them...they can choose to get involved or not but allow them to judge you by your actions

Mr. Wondering

Met with the GAL this morning - it was a fruitful visit. I'll post more details tonight. Very interesting that WW already met with her last Friday.

I am with Mr. W about the trip!!

OK, so the visit with the GAL went something like this:

Talked about the kids, how they are adjusting. DD3 "seems" pretty oblivious to it but she has asked when will mommy come back to live with us (heartbreaking) since we are in the family home. DS5 has been sick so it's been hard to gauge his feelings and when I try to talk to him he won't say anything about it. I told her we have maintained the same schedules we always had in terms of eating, bedtimes, church, etc. I mentioned we get in a little later on Wednesday nights since I am in the divorce care program and we get home about 8:30pm, in bed by 9pm. Talked about some of DS5's behavior problems that started two summers ago and what has happened with all that in the months since.

Told her that WW still wants to stay at home with the kids, and while I never had a problem with her being a SAHM while we were married, if she has chooses to separate and divorce that I did not this that was realistic to expect that any longer. AFAIK, she is not looking for any work. Likewise with the kids school. We originally planned that DS5 would go to private school but there is no way we can afford that and he will have to go to public school for 1st grade next school year. She probably still thinks she will home school DD3 (I have to wonder if she has considered all this).

She asked about the Dr. in Atlanta, the bi-polar diagnosis, depression, eating disorders, etc. I pretty much had to give WW's medical history as I know it since we have been together the last 13 years. No idea if she asked WW about any of that.

She asked about not seeing the kids those three weeks around Christmas, why I thought she did that, etc. Had to tell that whole painful story, and why I did not get into a tug-of-war over them even though I had the legal right to go get them.

She asked if children had been exposed to OM, I said yes at least once according to my neighbor's testimony in the affidavit. I mentioned my strong concern that she was still in contact with OM, even in the presence of the kids, which is in violation of our temporary order. Told her that I saw the other cell phone, she has a new e-mail address, she has internet access at her new house so she has the means to continue contact. The GAL expressed some concern about this as well.

She asked what did I think was best for the kids. I told her I was working to save our M, that I was following the MB principles for Dr. Harley, and that I believed the best case scenario was for us to be a family. I told her that while WW thinks I am using the kids against her, I am in fact protecting the family and all my actions back that up. I do not want to be an every-other weekend father to my kids. They need both a Mommy (an un-fogged one) and a Daddy in their lives, and if she was not willing to come home then I would be willing to accept a shared physical custody arrangement to ensure equal time with both of us. I made it clear I have no desire to keep the kids away from her or limit her involvement with them (to contrast the fact that WW kept them away from me).

She said she would be scheduling an in-home visit soon and would let me know something about that.

Oh, I found that WW left some of her old journaling notebooks here in the house. Since she is no longer here, I think I may read through them and see if there is any mention of OM, meetings, feelings, etc. I guess this could be used to further show that a relationship has been maintained all this time. I may be opening myself up for more pain, but again this is about protecting the family.

<Sigh> This just sucks that we have to have someone determine what is the best for our own children.

The saga continues.....

You did really good.

It really sounds like the GAL is tracking this pretty well. She knows the score.

I'd have to think if she had any doubts or questions about something your WW told her she would have just bluntly asked.

However, it sounds to me you are conceding a little too much on the shared custody thing. Ideally you'd like for shared "time" but still primary custody. You want to continue protecting them and have some control. You assure her and demonstrate fairness...but they sleep at your house nearly every night to insure their protection. You will certainly be amenable to revisiting such arrangement should your wife end her adulterous relationship; but, if it continues indefinitely you hope she sees fit to place them primarily with you as you feel that if adultery continues your wife/ex-wifes home would remain a unclean/immoral place for your children. (smile and then say...I am not being vindictive, just honest...YOU get to make the recommendation to the court, I am merely stating my personal opinion based upon my religious beliefs. She could end up splitting up with this guy and finding a new one after we divorce, I will likely be OK with that depending on the man...but, I can only hope and pray that you will agree and make a recommendation to the court which will make it very difficult for this particular interloper and destroyer of our family to become a part of it). I will respect whatever you decide.

Something like that...

Mr. Wondering

Thanks Mr.W. I tried to follow the advice you gave back on 1/31.

Forgot to mention that I did ask her what I could do to make her job easier, regular updates, etc. She said she did not need anything else at this time. She does want to get some of the medical info on DS5 from the therapist he has been seeing, so we have to sign a release for that. Otherwise she did not need or want anything else. I wonder if that is good or bad.

Nonetheless, I think now is the time to subpoena phone records since she also expressed her concern about continued contact with OM.

OK, this is a little ridiculous.

My lawyer called me and said he received a letter from WW's lawyer indicating that I should stop leaving her notes around her house and vehicle, and that I have been touching her innapropriatly (these are just touches on the arm as I leave, I mentioned this earlier).

Uhh, why not say something to me directly about this? What a crock.

Eph,

Here's your answer.

Because you have called me to account for being a ****** and ruining our family over a man I barley know. You have taken custody of the children from me. You have embarassed me by exposure. YOU.....

Get it? She did nothing to deserve this from you. You should be happy for her. Let her have the kids and send a check for child support so that my new BF and I can spend more money traveling together. You should have kept your mouth shut and let me slip away peacefully, you know irreconcilable differences and such.

This is all your fault.

NOT,NOT,NOT..........

This is all her doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She gets what she gets at this point.

Why would you give a woman that has become such a poor example for your children significant amounts of custody? Why would you want them around two homewreckers and an OM that God only knows what kind of negaitve influence he could be on them? You do what you will but I would go for full custody or at least joint legal and primary physical and let the WW feel the brunt of her decisions. When and if she showed she can become the role model mother the children need and deserve you could always talk more custody or visitation.

My two cents. In either case stay strong.

Most likely your attorney should just ignore the letter. Don't waste money playing into her games.

IF HE RESPONDS,

Dear Sir,

In reference to your letter dated Feb 6, 2007...exactly what constitutes "inappropriate" touching between a husband and wife?

Perhaps before sending over ridiculous letters you should stop "inappropriately" touching yourself.

Kindly,

Mr. I.M. Kickingyerbutt

LOL @ Mr. W's post.

~ Marsh