Thanks FWCJ.

Honestly I did not read over the entire thing until I was typing it up tonight, even then I did not really analyze it.

Part of me wonder why bother? What will it change? Can it change anything?

Can't be any worse than it is now.

I can tell you why!

Because it helps to explain it. It may not change anything...but if nothing else, it helps when you can look at the downfall and understand WHY it happened or WHAT happened.

Case in point: my DH's exW is Narcissistic. He had never heard of personality disorders before but had lived with her for 20 years and knew her pretty well. One day someone mentioned to him that "Boy, she sounds Narcissistic" and he began to investigate...and the more he found out about it the more it seemed to describe his situation.

Will it save his M? Will it change anything? No...not really. But in his head, he sort of understands what happened and why, and in a way that helps.


--CJ

Eph,

What is your plan? What is it you are doing to move this all forward?

I read the exchange with your wife. Typical!! Same stuff my wife said...over and over! It is exchanges such as these that forced me into Plan B!

You see, there is only ONE reason why she said the things she said. It is because she NEEDS you to create conflict. There is something going on with her, in her life, that you dont know right now. Maybe it is the OM pressuring her. Maybe it is her pressuring the OM to meet needs he cant/wont. But something isnt right there!!

How do I know? Well, first...I have been there. And now that my wife and I have talked, I know that things werent right during the times she engaged me as your wife has here. The second reason I know is this fact: people dont argue about and dont get angry about things that they dont care about!! If you wife was indeed happy and accepting of where things are going, then she wouldnt have even engaged you. Instead, all of her responses to you would have been "whatever."

Jim was right above. She drew you into conflict, so she could feel angry at you, so she could say her justifications and try to make HERSELF believe them. Then, she could try to feel justified as she headed back to the life she is trying to build.

But the funny thing is...deep down, she knows it is a lie. She knows she is living a lie. So, she wants you to help her change the lie...so that maybe it will work. Statements such as "mom and dad being happy and co-parenting together in divorce" is a testimony to this. She wants what cant happen...and she knows it! So, she wants YOUR help!

I forsee it getting harder for you to Plan A from here on out. I forsee that you will have a hard time not educating her. And the more that you have a hard time, the harder she will push!

Your response to her diatribe should have been this..."Honey, we both know what has really gone on here. We both know that we love each other. I do not wish to engage in a conversation such as this. I have to go now. When you are ready to talk about building a marriage that we both deserve, then I am here."

And then...shut up! Dont answer her responses! Dont say "oh, and one last thing..." Just be quiet.

As I said, I dont think you can do much more with your Plan A. I agree with Mr. W. If I were you, I would get another session with Steve Harley just to confirm this analysis.

If I were you, I would get my Plan B written out. Get it together and planned out. Get to understand what goes on in Plan B. Get the avenues of co-parenting decided, so you two do not have to interact more than is necessary. Plan out what you wil do with your time and how you will begin to move your life forward.

Plan B is a door. It is a door out of the mess...and away from the adultery and pain. It is a door into a new life. One that the BS controls. Now, going thru that Plan B door may mean that your marriage is over. Or, as in my case, it may mean that your wife will meet you on the other side of that door. But that door forever changes the dynamic of your life.

As I said, I think you have done a pretty good Plan A. I think she has seen it. I KNOW she has seen it. In her statements, she repeatedly refers to your changes. Sure, she calls them "lies." She has to call them lies, because if she were to accept them as truth, then she would also have to re-evaluate her position and what she is doing. And she isnt ready to do that yet. Instead, she sees your changes...but calls them lies.

So, since she has seen them...in a Plan B environment, she can no longer tell herself that they are lies. She just cant. In the meantime, the OM is woefully lacking in the ability to meet the needs you were meeting. Your wife will begin to make selfish demands of him...and he wont be able to fulfill them. And there will be strife. In the meantime, Eph is out of the middle of that. He is off the rollercoaster. He is safe and sound, sipping a tall one. And working on improving his life, and the life of his kids. He is no longer in the drama.

And in Plan B, your wife has to confront her lies to herself. She has to confront why she has this feeling to call you...to get you to meet some of the needs she is no longer getting met. At first, she will just try to get angry and force you out of your Plan B. But when that doesnt work, she will try to sweet talk you out of it. And when that doesnt work, then realization is finally available to her.

And then she walks in with tears of repentence. Then she sees you for who you are.

Eph, that exchange with your wife tells me that it is about time to make the jump. To shut down things with her and begin healing your wounds.

Please consider this. We can help you get the plan together. We can help you understand the possible reactions of your wife.

Please think on this.

About to leave for the weekend but wanted to co-sign MM's post before I did.

We're not saying Plan B today...just that you should begin preparations for the day and time that you KNOW, through prayer, thought and consultation, it's the right thing for you to do.

Mr. Wondering

Eph

Just two bits on how twisted waywards can get in their thinking in order to justify their actions:

My XH actually told me he thought God brought the OW back into his life during our separation. (Last time I checked, God didn't add a "just kidding" to that commandment about adultery).

How's that for justification!

MM is right. Your WW is trying to create conflict to justify her actions. It's right out of the wayward script.

Hang in there

Hey Eph,

I agree w/ the others that you need to move towards Plan B.

Comments like this one is counter productive....


Your statement would have worked better w/o, "You still light up my life!"

Yikes, Eph! Remarks like that should only be said to a woman who IS sleeping w/ you or WANTS to be sleeping w/ you.

And, Eph, is that statement REALLY true? Does she still light up your life? Right now? While she's trashing your M and your family, is she lighting up your life?

I'm seeing some BS fog, from you.

Plan B is most helpful in clearing away that kind of fog too.



This is a good reason why one ought not to offer forgiveness to someone who's not sorry.

And she's not a bit sorry. She hasn't repented. So, she's not interested in your forgiveness, especially if it means she has to admit wrong doing. Therefore your forgiveness seems fake to her.

You need to get real honest w/ her, and then go dark.

Praying for you!

~ Marsh

Eph,

Marsh is giving you excellent advice (as are others). You have been a great Plan Aer my man. You have gone beyond the call of duty in an attempt to save your WW from herself. Trouble is (I had to learn this too...) you can't save anyone from themselves. You just can't. They have to have a "want to" , a certain imeptus, an awakening or sorts in order to want to get help OR the pain of what they are doing has to outweigh the satisfaction they get from doing it.

Plan B my man. If you do Plan B as well as you did Plan A then you will have done all you can to protect your M and family and can stand tall and proud regardless of the outcome.

Hey Marsh - glad to have you back. Thanks for that 2x4. From a physical standpoint - yes she does light up my life. Otherwise, no she does not.

I thought this e-mail I got today was timely:


Yep, I don't see any of His love, grace, and peace right now.

I've been praying for God to show me clearly what to do. I think I am getting that message.

Talk about twisted...

WW brings the kids home tonight and I am kinds short with her - not in a rude way but just kinda one and two word answers. She asks what's wrong and I say nothing new.

Well the kids were giving me the story of what they did and ate and all that, then WW calls shortly after leaving to tell me the kids had eaten supper at the birthday party DS6 was invited to. I told her the kids were just telling me all about it.

She asks if I am OK, and I say I am as good as I can be considering what is going on.

Now after yesterday's messages, why the heck would she care how I am?

I don't get it.

You saw a crack, Eph.

She sensed you pulling back from her. And it made her nervous.

Why did it make her nervous? B/c she wants to keep you as her "sure thing". Her safety net who will always see her as the light of his world, no matter what she does.

Plan B is going to smash her fantasy world!

~ Marsh

She vascillates between W and WW. You need to plan B her and kill off the WW, leaving only your W behind. Part of her is afraid to and doesn't want to lose you.

Just may be the next sign I need that plan B is the right step.

HI, I know that you know this, but I agree with JIM...especially after the interaction today with her...I think it might be the push you need.


I soooo completely agree with Jim...

Just wanted to let you know I was thinking about you and hope that you are resting up...

LOL...hate to have to 2X4 you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It's alright - as you can see I am hardheaded <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I can tell...it's okay...we'll forgive you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Rin, you've got mail

Awesome, thanks...That's cool!

Eph525,

I know this is going to shock you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> but I have gone back and read every single post of this thread...as I have some relative serious thoughts to relate to you.

I hope you will hang in there, because I'm working on my thoughts and response, and will be posting it in about an hour...or so. See...I'm a chick, so an hour to me is not static. Is it the "take a bubble bath for an hour" hour or the "study for a boring test" hour? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

--CJ

Well I made it through the weekend, but it was rough. I had to work quite a bit since we had an upgrade of one of our system going on. I was up lat most nights and had to spend most of Saturday morning working so the kids were just kinda doing their own thing.

We did run a few errands in the afternoon and we went to a party my SS class had Saturday afternoon at a local park and the kids had a blast. I guess that made up for me not spending much time with them in the morning.

Sunday we went to church and then came home and took a two hour nap (Rin I am jealous of your 4 hour naps <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

The best part - absolutely no interaction with WW at all.

So I was feeling good, then when I dropped of DD3 this morning I took a hit in my happiness level, but I made it through the day.

Then tonight we dropped back by WW's place to give her the mother's day ring the kids got for her (I had to get it resized).

As we were leaving, DS6 ran into the car door and knocked a big knot on his head. He was screaming and I thought I was gonna get sick looking at this big lump on his head. WW went in to get ice, and I went in and sat on her couch holding him (screw her not wanting me in the house).

DS6 wanted me to hold the ice pack on his head, not mommy. She was looking up information on what to do, signs to look for in the event things might be worse like a concussion or something. It was a team effort and I managed to get him settled and back home. We put more ice on it and I told him he could sleep in the big bed with me to be safe tonight.

WW TMed me asking how he was doing and I replied he was OK, he at ice cream once we got home and seemed to be OK but I gave him tylenol to be safe. We will see how the morning goes - I think he will have a big bruise right above his right eye.

On another note, I still owe a lot of answers to questions posed to me over the last week. I hoep to get to them in teh next days.

FWCJ - whenever you get to your reply I would appreciate it. Thanks for trying to keep the peace. I value everyone's input and I don't mind debates but last week I just wasn't in a place to even address it.

WW has plans next week for one of her entire weeks with the kids (our current agreement allows for two non-consecutive weeks in the summer) I don't think she has told the kids about it because they have not mentioned it to me at all. It will be nice to have some time for myself.

DS6 has pre-op tests this Thursday and his kidney surgery is next Friday (6/1). Please keep us all in your prayers.

I want to spend these next two weeks investigating and prepping for whatever my next steps are for moving this whole thing along.

Well that was longer than I thought it would be.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It's just nice to hear ya made it through the installs and the weekend.

FWIW, in my former life (heehee) exH and I owned a business selling, installing, training and serving touchscreen point of sale computer systems in restaurants...so I know what those "all night installs" are like!! I pity ya, my man!!

How about a night of relaxation for Eph tonight. You have a 6yo with bumpy head to tend to, and I'll get back atcha tomorrow so you can "rest" tonight.

Glad to hear you survived!!!



--CJ