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Joined: Dec 2006
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Hi everyone. I'm new here, but I've been lurking a while, reading as much as I can - both articles and forum posts - trying to educate myself on the situation my wife and I are in. The last 30 days have been the toughest of my life, by far, and I'm doing my honest best to hold things together - both my marriage and myself.

Let me give you a little background:

I'm 32 and my wife is 22 years old. We were 29 and 19 when we got together, and we've been married just over a year.

I've been in a handful of romantic relationships prior to meeting my wife, while she hasn't been in anything more involved than a casual date or two before meeting me.

She comes from a very large family, with 8 siblings. I am an only child, having grown up with only my mother around.

I've lived on my own since I was about 18 years old, and am not quite so reliant on my support network as I believe she is. She went directly from living at her parents' home to moving in with me.

We lived together for almost two years before were married.

Shortly after we were married, I received an extremely promising job offer which required us to move to Michigan (we both grew up and lived in Ohio, near Cleveland). Both of us were reluctant to leave our support networks behind, but we decided together that I should take the job. Where we live now is only about 3 hours away from our former home, but it's far enough that we don't see our friends and family every week.

Though I know she missed having her friends and family close at hand, I believe things went well for us for most of our first year after the move. But I know that I fell into something of a boring routine. I didn't "talk" with her as much as I did previously, and most of our conversation had started to revolve around bills and money. We didn't spend nearly as much time "together" as we used to -- I'd come home from work, and we'd each do our own thing.

Let me make this clear now: I know I've stumbled on fulfilling her emotional needs.

We did the EN questionnaire, and her top 5 were Affection, Openness/Honesty, Conversation, Financial Support and Domestic Support - roughly in that order.

My top 5 were: Openness/Honesty, Affection, Sexual Fulfillment, Admiration, and Financial Support (in my case, this one involves her helping to keep track of our finances - though mine is the larger income, I stink at handling money).

On to the current story.

Toward the end of October, I noticed that she was mentioning the name of a male co-worker of hers more than seemed reasonable. I presumed this meant that he was on her mind - again, more often than seemed reasonable for just a co-worker. His name is Dale.

For about a month prior to this, my wife, henceforth known as V, was going bowling once a week with a few of her co-workers, Dale among them. It caused me some amount of stress that she was hanging out with single people I didn't know very well, but I didn't make too big an issue of it.

On Monday, October 30th, I decided that I had to talk to her about this (we'd celebrated our 3rd anniversary of being a couple two days before). She admitted to me that I was right, she was thinking about him a lot, and had developed an interest in him. Moreover, she'd told him about this interest and he'd responded in kind. She'd made plans to go with him the following day to get a part for her truck, but in light of our discussion, I requested that she cancel those plans. She reluctantly agreed.

Tuesday, October 31st - All heck breaks loose. I was feeling sick, and extremely stressed out over the previous evening, so I worked from home. V had a meeting at work at 6 in the morning, after which she was going to come home. After not hearing from her, by 10:30am, I started calling and texting her, with no response. She finally replied to a text message at about noon, and I was able to get her on the phone shortly thereafter. She admitted she'd been hanging out with Dale all morning, and told me she was on her way home. When she arrived, we had a painful and very emotional discussion. Mostly one-sided, with me asking her what she was doing, why she was doing this, etc. The only response I really got was "I don't know." Eventually she became overwhelmed and decided she needed to drive to clear her head. I didn't hear anything from her until 11:30 that night, when her female friend called me to let me know she was staying at her place and that she was okay.

I didn't hear much from her again until Friday, when she came home while I was at work. I left work early and went to her. We talked a while, and decided we would go to Ohio to be among friends and family. At that point, we tentatively decided to move her back there for a while (this didn't end up happening - for the best, in my opinion). We spent most of the weekend apart, her with her best friend, me with mine. We finally met again Sunday evening, when we talked about our situation, and I broke down and was able to convince her that we needed to seek counseling.

We came back to Michigan, and over the next couple weeks, she insisted on going bowling with the group from work, swearing to me that there was nothing going on with Dale, and that she'd told him it was over.

I did some snooping on her computer and in her phone and found this to be a lie. I confronted her with the evidence, and again she told me she would break things off with Dale. Again, this was a lie. She lied to me several times about talking to him, meeting him, etc.

Finally, about two and a half weeks ago, I was able to get her to start being honest with me again. I told her that I needed to be able to trust her, and that the only way that could happen is if she was straight with me. So I asked her about her plans, and if she'd been talking to him. She admitted she had been speaking to him, and planned to meet him the next day to work on her truck. I was extremely uncomfortable with that plan, but at the same time relieved she was being straight with me.

We had our first counseling session that day, after which I went to work and she went to Dale's to work on her truck. Later that day, when I asked her if Dale had tried anything when she was there, she said he'd tried to touch her, but she'd pushed him away and nothing further had happened. And given the time required to do the work on her truck compared with the time she was there, her story checks out.

Last Monday, November 20th, V and I had a long conversation prior to her going bowling, in which I was finally able to help her see that she had to break off ALL contact with Dale if we were to have a fair chance. She admitted that she knew things could never work between them, and that she was using it as means to leave our marriage if she decided to. I didn't want her to go bowling - I wanted contact between them to cease immediately. But she wanted to tell him in person. So she went, and I spent most of the evening in a fit of non-stop anxiety and fear over the situation. Eventually, she came home and was emotionally drained, and very sad.

Since then, there has been very minimal contact, amounting to him stopping in where she works (he works at another store) one time, and texting her once to ask if she was going bowling. Both of which she told me about and let me view the text message.

I do truly believe the EA is over between them now. Though I'm still adamant about there being no contact between them.

Right now, the situation is such that she keeps saying she doesn't want to be married. That she thinks she married too young. That she doesn't want the commitment in her life now. She says she wants to be a kid and not worry about a home, a husband, bills, etc.

We've been close to the edge of her leaving a few times in the last two weeks, usually when I try to talk about the situation with her. But I've been able to convince her to keep trying. I talked to her mom, with whom I'm quite close, and she told me most married couples she's known have gone through this kind of thing where one or the other doesn't want to be married, and that you just have to tough it out. I had her tell V this, and it seems to have had some impact. But things are still very touchy.

She just keeps coming back to not knowing if she wants to be married. Her actions - touching me, sleeping with me, being intimate with me - they all seem to point to the part of her that wants to be together. But when it comes to talking about it, her defenses go up, and she talks about not wanting to be married, not wanting to try, not being behind the marriage.

In our last discussion, yesterday, I told her to trust me. That things would get better. I told her we needed to get some distance between us and all the pain of the past month, and give ourselves a chance to be happy without that hanging over our heads. Our counselor, though not as assertive as I'd like, is getting us to talk, and is recommending that we do more together. V seems to be at least considering the advice.

I've told her that we both need to work on being happy together, and that it will get easier, and things will get better. But I'm having a very tough road here, and any advice would be extremely appreciated.

I love her like I love life itself, and I feel like a part of me would die if I lost her. She is my treasure in every way, and though I know I'd survive without her, I absolutely don't want to have to be without her.

Thank you.
-- W


My Story Me, BS, 32 WW, 22 Married 8/5/05 - Together since 10/27/03 D-Day 10/31/06 False NC 11/20/06 - Broke NC 12/4/06 NC 12/8/06 - I spoke with OM and explained that NC was essential. He agreed to NC. Broke NC approx 1/15/07 WW is currently speaking/texting with OM by phone, and planning to leave 2/15/07 if I don't make changes to my "controlling/smothering".
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Hey W...you will get some great advice on this forum...I would suggest starting Plan A...immediately...I think a lot of people on here will agree....


God Bless A "If God brings you to it, He will get you through it."
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First things first. ANY CONTACT with this OM is likely to hurt your recovery efforts. It is like giving an recovering alcoholic little swigs of whiskey from time to time. Every time she sees him, she is going to wonder what could have been and it will damage your recovery effort. See about getting her to switch jobs or come up with other ways of preventing contact again (including changing cell phone numbers, email addresses, etc.). You also need to make sure that NC is being followed. You are going to have to snoop some to make sure that this just hasn't gone further underground. Secondly, you need to work on a good plan A. Right now she is not in the stage of romantic love with you. You need to keep fulfilling her ENs, and making as many love bank deposits as possible while minimizing withdrawals. This is important: YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PUT YOUR OWN ENs ASIDE FOR NOW. Her taker is in control, and she is unable to meet your needs. Getting angry or upset about that will only make love bank vithdrawals.

So in short the plan is, ensure NC, don't talk about the relationship, just have fun with her, and concentrate on meeting her ENs until her love bank is back in the romantic love level (and then MAINTAIN THAT LEVEL). You are in a ****** of a lot better shape than most of the people here that first post on the forum. Just be calm and strong.

- Jim

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Quote
Right now, the situation is such that she keeps saying she doesn't want to be married. That she thinks she married too young. That she doesn't want the commitment in her life now. She says she wants to be a kid and not worry about a home, a husband, bills, etc.


Yep......she did marry too young. She didnt experience being on her own.....dating jerks as well as nice guys. She has no clue as to what a good guy is, since she didnt run into a jerk.

I know this for a fact, because this situation is EXACTLY like my prior marriage. My EX was 17 when we met, I was 22. We dated and married when she was 21 and I was 26. Basically I was her 2nd boyfriend and she hadnt dated very many guys when we met. We actually went to college together also. Well, over the next 5yrs she complained about marrying too young, and if she married the right person (ME). She would get depressed, go out and try and meet other guys (more than likely did).....then a few mo. later she would get her senses back and love me and being married again. We had a child....then the same feelings in her came back. She felt she married too young, didnt get to be on her own and all that. She tried to contact other men (more than likely did). Things got better and we had another child.......same ol crap again.....Im NOT happy, married too young, married the wrong guy (ME). She then had an affair.....and she wanted out again. I let her go. Actually I didnt want to go thru her depression and wondering if she loved or wanted me again. I was tired of it. We divorced, she got her freedom and independance.....dated married OM for 4yrs waiting on him to divorce. He never did.....then she tried to come back.....she said she made a mistake. TOO LATE DEAR!!!! I remarried and have never been happier.

To sum this all up after my story that relates. Your wife will probably not change. She will go in and out of the state of wanting freedom. Marrying TOO young and not having experience will do this. My suggestion is to NOT have kids. At least anytime soon, because I really dont see her changing. She will have to experience the things she missed, in order for her to realize what she has. I hate to break it to you, but you should let her go. You will regret it if you dont. Ive been there and done that.

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Wow! Thanks for the quick responses.

Jim, I'm working VERY hard to prevent and ensure prevention of any contact with the OM. I've brought up having her change jobs multiple times, but it's just not on the table right now. Fortunately, my wife and the OM work at different stores. But there are monthly mandatory meetings that they both will be attending. I will continue to work on her to change jobs, but I can only push so hard right now as I don't want to make any more love bank withdrawals than absolutely necessary.

She has been straight with me about any contact there has been, and while I really do recognize how dangerous it is, I have to take comfort in her current honesty and that she seems to believe that things cannot work between them.

I will try to put my own ENs aside for now, though my anxiety has been getting the better of me lately. I was in a bad state yesterday, and wrote down a bunch of stuff that I felt I needed to tell her to get off my chest yesterday. I read it all to her and though I feel better because of it, but it wasn't pleasant stuff (feeling betrayed, hurt, etc.), and I fear it was a love bank withdrawal and may have been something of a setback. But I have to look and move forward.

Please, keep the advice coming.


My Story Me, BS, 32 WW, 22 Married 8/5/05 - Together since 10/27/03 D-Day 10/31/06 False NC 11/20/06 - Broke NC 12/4/06 NC 12/8/06 - I spoke with OM and explained that NC was essential. He agreed to NC. Broke NC approx 1/15/07 WW is currently speaking/texting with OM by phone, and planning to leave 2/15/07 if I don't make changes to my "controlling/smothering".
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I'm glad you feel refreshed that she is being honest with you lately. However, you need to do some checking up to make sure what she says is the truth. WWs are NOTORIOUS for lying out their teeth. My WW agreed to NC with the OM 3 weeks ago. She used to contact him by email and her cell phone (both of which I have access to the records). At the 2.5 week point, I found a receipt for a prepaid calling card that she had purchased the night before. She had called a friend for the OM's number, bought the card, and called him from a payphone. I only found out because I was on top of the situation to verify that she had been telling me the truth. Long story short, trusting your WW is a nice thought, but verification is necessary.

Also for the anxiety, IC and lexapro. You don't understand how much lexapro has helped me function during these difficult times. I used to be a crying, emotional, wreck that could barely eat, sleep, or function at work. Lexapro has really helped me pull it together during these tough times.

- Jim

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Jim, I should have mentioned that I am keeping tabs on her activities. I check her phone regularly, as well as her email and MySpace. The only one she currently knows I have access to is her phone. I also check her computer browsing history regularly (which she doesn't know how to manipulate) and there have been no signs of contact.

Though I'm working on trusting her, I have no short-term intention to stop checking up on her. I love her, but I still need to verify what she tells me.


My Story Me, BS, 32 WW, 22 Married 8/5/05 - Together since 10/27/03 D-Day 10/31/06 False NC 11/20/06 - Broke NC 12/4/06 NC 12/8/06 - I spoke with OM and explained that NC was essential. He agreed to NC. Broke NC approx 1/15/07 WW is currently speaking/texting with OM by phone, and planning to leave 2/15/07 if I don't make changes to my "controlling/smothering".
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Jim, I should have mentioned that I am keeping tabs on her activities. I check her phone regularly, as well as her email and MySpace. The only one she currently knows I have access to is her phone. I also check her computer browsing history regularly (which she doesn't know how to manipulate) and there have been no signs of contact.

Though I'm working on trusting her, I have no short-term intention to stop checking up on her. I love her, but I still need to verify what she tells me.


I hope you read my response......you are looking only at the tip of this iceberg. Its just not about this OM, its about her feeling trapped being married. There is much more to this than just one guy. There will be MORE other guys unless you get ahold of the fact that she doesnt really want to be married, and wants her freedom.

JMHO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

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StartinOver, I really do appreciate and respect what you say. And it's possible that you'll be proven to be right in the end. But I am absolutely not prepared to walk away from this.

I am going to try to provide as much a feeling of freedom and of not missing out for her as I can, with a certain narrow range of activities and experiences that will necessarily not be possible (dating other men, etc.) so that she doesn't have to regret marrying me so young.

I would not be able to live with myself if I didn't try absolutely everything and do my absolute best to make this work. That's part of who I am, and it's one of the parts of myself I love most. I can't betray that.


My Story Me, BS, 32 WW, 22 Married 8/5/05 - Together since 10/27/03 D-Day 10/31/06 False NC 11/20/06 - Broke NC 12/4/06 NC 12/8/06 - I spoke with OM and explained that NC was essential. He agreed to NC. Broke NC approx 1/15/07 WW is currently speaking/texting with OM by phone, and planning to leave 2/15/07 if I don't make changes to my "controlling/smothering".
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StartinOver, I really do appreciate and respect what you say. And it's possible that you'll be proven to be right in the end. But I am absolutely not prepared to walk away from this.

I am going to try to provide as much a feeling of freedom and of not missing out for her as I can, with a certain narrow range of activities and experiences that will necessarily not be possible (dating other men, etc.) so that she doesn't have to regret marrying me so young.

I would not be able to live with myself if I didn't try absolutely everything and do my absolute best to make this work. That's part of who I am, and it's one of the parts of myself I love most. I can't betray that.


I know, I know.....I hear what you are saying. I guess since I was in the same position that you were, I wish I would have cut my losses before I had children with my EX.....not that I wish they werent here, because I love them with all my heart. You should try really, just dont be suprised if the outcome is similar to mine.

Sometimes you have to let someone go in order for them to improve themselves. A lesson of hard knocks so to say. My EX would have put me thru the (Im not happy, I want freedom) for the next 30yrs. If I would not have finally given up and let her go.

God Bless.....and keep us informed as to how things are going.

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I hope you read my response......you are looking only at the tip of this iceberg. Its just not about this OM, its about her feeling trapped being married. There is much more to this than just one guy. There will be MORE other guys unless you get ahold of the fact that she doesnt really want to be married, and wants her freedom.

JMHO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I think that is part of my WW's problem as well. We were together since she was 20 (she's now 27), and she has a lot of single friends at work. However, as more of her friends are settling down, and as I can hopefully get her love bank up to the romantic love threshold, I am hoping that some individual and marriage counseling (as well as her continuing to grow up) will help our marriage. I guess only time will tell. I'm not prepared to give up yet. I love my WW and we were best friends before we got together. I know in my heart that we can make it work. Just leave it up to God.

- Jim

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StartinOver, I really do appreciate that you can see my point of view. I do understand yours, but I do not share it.

Jim, my wife being mostly amongst single people at work is, I think, a problem. It's not a career-type job, and most of her co-workers are young and not very responsible. Not really the type of people who respect marriage. I've been urging her to look at getting a different job, but she's very reluctant. I will keep trying, however.

Any advice on what I can say to her to help her deal with her doubts and questions would be most appreciated. I know others have gone through this type of thing, where their spouse thought s/he didn't want to be married, and came through together and happy.


My Story Me, BS, 32 WW, 22 Married 8/5/05 - Together since 10/27/03 D-Day 10/31/06 False NC 11/20/06 - Broke NC 12/4/06 NC 12/8/06 - I spoke with OM and explained that NC was essential. He agreed to NC. Broke NC approx 1/15/07 WW is currently speaking/texting with OM by phone, and planning to leave 2/15/07 if I don't make changes to my "controlling/smothering".
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There isn't much you can say to her right now. You need to make enough deposits in the love bank to get her above the romantic love threshold. Once you get back to that point, then you might want to talk about the relationship again. At this point talking about the relationship is just going to make withdrawals. You'll have to hold off talking to her until she's ready to listen. Just focus on meeting her emotional needs right now. Keep it light, and keep it fun. Do the things you did when you were courting her. It will take time, but she fell in love with you once, and it can happen again. You need to be the same giving, confident person you were when you met, though. I'm going through the same thing right now. We had a great day and a half. We got about a foot of ice and snow since that time and have been snowed in. We have just hung out, eaten a bunch of junk, walked around in the snow, and watched movies. It has really been a good bonding experience. I want to hold her and make love to her right now, but she's just not ready for that yet. I just have to give it some more time, and so do you. Keep up the good work, and remember, God is on your side.

- Jim

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Hi guys. I'm sorry I haven't provided any updates in the last few days.

V and I spent the entire weekend together, in each other's presence most of the time. Overall, it was very nice, and I think it did us both a lot of good.

I did stumble a couple times with keeping my taker locked up, with a particularly bad episode happening on Sunday. She and I were laying on the couch together, talking and touching when her phone rang. It was her best friend (female) and they ended up talking for over an hour. This is completely normal, but I grew impatient and acted rather immature -- making my impatience plain, pestering V while she was on the phone, etc. I feel like a jerk over it, but that's what happened. Afterward, V made it plain that I had irritated her, and I apologized. Also, without going into any detail, V and I have been having sexual relations regularly for the last few weeks, including this past weekend.

On Monday, I visited V at work on my way to a photo club I belong to after I got out of work. When I pulled into the parking lot, I saw Dale's car there and immediately became very upset. When I went in, he was talking to another of the employees there. I ignored him and only addressed V. I asked her if he'd said anything to her to which she replied that he hadn't. Apparently he'd come in to buy something and to get his buddy who worked at that location lunch. However, before he left, he made a point to ask the other employees if they wanted anything from McDonalds, including V (she declined). He even had the nerve to act "cute" while I was standing there by addressing V, leaving what he was going to purchase on the counter and telling her he wanted it to still be there when he returned so he could buy it. That took a lot of willpower on my part to not take some stupid action against him.

Anyway, I went off to my photo club, extremely anxious of course. And when I was driving back, I called her because she had just gotten out of work. I pass her work on my way home from club and she said she'd take a few extra minutes to do some donuts in her truck in the fresh snow (spinning around in a parking lot). I drove by her work, and happened to look over -- Her truck and Dale's car were in the parking lot to the side of the building! I whipped around and pulled into the parking lot, surprising both of them. They were each in their own vehicles, but when I got out of my car and approached, Dale spun his tires and bolted out of there.

I was frantic. I asked her what the heck she was doing, what was going on, how could she lie to me again, etc. She told me they were just talking. She also told me she was just trying to live her life. When I asked her if living her life means betraying me and lying to me, she didn't have any answer. We finally decided to go home and talk rather than fighting about it in the freezing cold.

On the way home, I was just going nuts. Screaming at the top of my lungs in my car, pissed off and hurt beyond belief. I called V's friend J (same female friend as before), whom I've been talking to about the situation all along and asked her to please call V and try to get her to see this sensibly. After that I called my friend and talked to him about the situation, which mostly consisted of me bawling my eyes out and asking what I did to deserve this kind of treatment.

We finally got home, and V was quite a bit more calm. I'm sure this was largely due to speaking to her friend on the phone.

She and I talked for a couple hours after that. Again, I asked her what she was doing and why. She said that I've been smothering her and this is her way of pushing me away because of it. When I asked her what "smothering" meant, she said wanting to spend every minute with her, not letting her hang out with her friends, hurrying her when she's on the computer, not giving her any time to herself.

So I told her that I'm willing to do those things, but there has to be some give on her part as well. She CANNOT be in contact with Dale, even to talk, not even to ask a work-related question. Because every time she has any contact with him, no matter how innocent it may or may not be, it's like stabbing me in the heart, because it tells me that she doesn't care about my feelings enough to protect them by maintaining NC.

I also told her that she can't give me a hard time when I ask her when she's going to be home, because even though she views it as me questioning her independence and ability to take care of herself, in reality it's my questioning the world around her. I told her that a drunk driver who crashes into her doesn't care how independent she is. Some a**hole who decides to rape or rob her in the parking lot of a bowling alley doesn't care how she can take care of herself. I need to know when to expect her home so I can know when I need to start worrying, when to call the police and the hospitals, etc. if it comes to that.

And I told her that when I tell her I love her -- when I extend my heart to her that way -- she has to reciprocate in kind.

I asked her straight up if she'd cheated on me with Dale. She said she hadn't. I asked her if she'd done ANYTHING sexual with him. She said she hadn't. I tend to believe her, but I'm sad to say that's mostly because I can't pin down any time when she's really had an opportunity. A smaller part of that belief is motivated by my knowledge that she didn't rush into sexual relations when our relationship started.

She seems to think she can maintain a friendship with Dale and keep it at that level. I told her "You had an affair with him. You CANNOT be friends with him. There has to be NO contact, ever."

I also told her that I've spent the last two weeks re-building my ability to trust her, and that she'd just destroyed all the progress I'd made with this episode. I told her that she absolutely CANNOT lie to me or deceive me about ANYTHING ever again.

We didn't go to sleep mad. I firmly believe that letting the sun go down on us being mad at each other would be a huge mistake.

Yesterday, we just spent the evening after work together watching a movie and cuddling. We didn't discuss our marriage or bring up anything painful. I needed a break from the stress, even for one night.

I'm going to make clear to her that my allowing her to have some freedom and time to herself is conditional upon her making changes to her own behavior. I feel like I've been doing all the work this past month and it's time for her to step up and put forth some effort.

I'm also compiling a list of friends, family and co-workers to expose this situation to. So far, I've only told a few of our close friends and family, but I think it's time to bring additional pressure to bear on her from the people she cares about, respects, and listens to.

I've also printed out and given her the POJA to read. She read it last night in bed, but was very tired. She's going to read it again today and we'll talk about it. We also have a counseling session this afternoon where I intend to bring a lot of this out.

My anxiety and paranoia are in overdrive right now, but I'm holding on.


My Story Me, BS, 32 WW, 22 Married 8/5/05 - Together since 10/27/03 D-Day 10/31/06 False NC 11/20/06 - Broke NC 12/4/06 NC 12/8/06 - I spoke with OM and explained that NC was essential. He agreed to NC. Broke NC approx 1/15/07 WW is currently speaking/texting with OM by phone, and planning to leave 2/15/07 if I don't make changes to my "controlling/smothering".
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J
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You will always been in this state as long as there is occasional contact with the OM. You need to get this man out of your lives. As far as your WW, I wouldn't try to lecture her as much, just try to let her know how it makes you feel as calmly as possible. Don't say stuff like, "you can't see him because you had an affair," but rather, "it hurts me a lot to know you are contacting another man you had feelings for. Wouldn't you feel the same way, if our roles were reversed." It seems like the OM won't leave your WW alone. I would recommend contacting her work and the OM's parents (or significant other) to try and get him to back off. As far as her work, let them know that an inappropriate relationship has developed between WW and OM, and in order for us to save our marriage, there needs to be NC between WW and OM. Allowing contact may leave them open to sexual harassment in the workplace.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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Posts: 62
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Thanks again for the good advice, Jim.

One thing I've never been good at is reversing situations in discussions like this. You're not the first person to suggest putting her in my shoes, asking her how she'd feel if roles were reversed. I'm really starting to think I need to do this.

Foolish or not, I truly believe that she thinks her contact with him on Monday was (mostly) innocent talk. But I know it's not. She's in the fog right now, and she's rationalizing things.

I'm going to try to bring as much of this out at the counseling session today as possible, with her present. Do you think I should mention my plan to expose the situation broadly to the counselor and/or in front of V?

Thank you.


My Story Me, BS, 32 WW, 22 Married 8/5/05 - Together since 10/27/03 D-Day 10/31/06 False NC 11/20/06 - Broke NC 12/4/06 NC 12/8/06 - I spoke with OM and explained that NC was essential. He agreed to NC. Broke NC approx 1/15/07 WW is currently speaking/texting with OM by phone, and planning to leave 2/15/07 if I don't make changes to my "controlling/smothering".
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I forgot to mention, I'm also going to tackle the subject of the NC letter with V at the counselor's.


My Story Me, BS, 32 WW, 22 Married 8/5/05 - Together since 10/27/03 D-Day 10/31/06 False NC 11/20/06 - Broke NC 12/4/06 NC 12/8/06 - I spoke with OM and explained that NC was essential. He agreed to NC. Broke NC approx 1/15/07 WW is currently speaking/texting with OM by phone, and planning to leave 2/15/07 if I don't make changes to my "controlling/smothering".
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Posts: 4,222
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DO NOT use exposure as a threat. This will tip off WW, and she and OM can preempt the effect of your exposure by coming up with a story and telling that story to those you choose to expose to before you get the chance. Then you may get painted as the a-hole jealous hunsband that is controlling and won't let his wife have male friends. If you are going to use exposure as a weapon against an affair, do not let those in the affair know in advance so they can put their bulletproof vest on first. If there is still contact between WW and OM at the workplace, exposure to the workplace is the best tool to prevent further contact. Exposure to the OM's SO or parents will possibly keep him from continuing to pursue your wife. Exposure to her coworkers may keep OM and WW from being comfortable talking at work. You need NC to solve your problem.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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Posts: 62
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Thank you, Jim! I'll take your advice to heart. I'm off to counseling.


My Story Me, BS, 32 WW, 22 Married 8/5/05 - Together since 10/27/03 D-Day 10/31/06 False NC 11/20/06 - Broke NC 12/4/06 NC 12/8/06 - I spoke with OM and explained that NC was essential. He agreed to NC. Broke NC approx 1/15/07 WW is currently speaking/texting with OM by phone, and planning to leave 2/15/07 if I don't make changes to my "controlling/smothering".
Joined: Dec 2006
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Update

Counseling went differently than I expected. I went over a laundry list of things with the counselor in private that I felt needed to be brought out. I also requested that we spend most of this session with V and I talking with the counselor present, rather than the two of us talking to the counselor as had happened in previous sessions.

When it came time for V and I to talk, we didn't get past the primary two issues: the requirement of NC with Dale and her repeated statement that she doesn't think this is right for her and she doesn't want to be married.

The counselor asked V how long she's felt like this, that she didn't want to be married. V said that it had been "a while" and when pressed for what that meant, she said "months." Even the counselor asked why she hadn't said something much sooner, to which she replied "Because I thought it would go away."

On most points, the counselor agreed with my position. Though I admit to some gratification over this, I mostly take it to mean that my position is a sensible one. The counselor stated that V cannot have contact with Dale if she and I are to have any chance at a healthy and successful relationship. She also said that men who are as generous and willing to go to such great lengths as I am to try and make us happy are rare and V is risking much by hurting me and continuing her behavior.

One suggestion the counselor made was that V and I make an agreement that any friends we make her must be friends of us both. V stated that was a problem because her one female friend who lives here and I clash quite a bit. (This is the female friend who was part of the bowling group through which V ended up spending so much time with Dale.) So, I swallowed my pride and offered to try to start over with V's friend. I told V to tell her that I suggested she and I try to start over. Later that evening, after V had hung out with her female friend, I asked her about my suggestion and she said that her friend had agreed to try again with a clean slate.

Once again, I think V was on the brink of giving up. I could see it in her eyes. But I was able to bring her back. I was able to get her to agree to keep trying. To give us a chance to get some distance from this thing and learn how to be happy together again.

I know that I cannot afford to push V any further right now. I absolutely don't want to put her in a place where she feels she has to make a snap final decision on being with me, because she's not in mental or emotional state where she can make that kind of decision with a clear head. So I have to back off and focus on Plan A, making myself better, and doing everything I can to satisfy her emotional needs.

Her best friend J is coming up this weekend, we'll be picking her up tomorrow. I talked to J for several hours yesterday, and believe I'm starting to get a better handle on where V is mentally. J pointed out that V will do anything she can to avoid thinking or talking about things that make her unhappy. She will also fight tooth and nail to guard her true feelings and avoid talking about them.

I'm beginning to believe that when V says "I don't want to be married," what she may really be saying is "I don't want to go through the pain and hard work it will take to fix this because it scares me." If she really didn't want to be married or be with me, and truly thought that was the right path, she'd have already left.

J's first priority is V's happiness, which I completely understand and appreciate. She's her best friend, after all. But another great thing about that is that J honestly believes that V's happiness lies down the path of V and I being together. And I hope and have to believe that V will be able to listen to J and really hear what she's saying, at least to a greater degree than she's able to hear my voice right now.

I am working diligently to improve myself through this whole thing. I'm learning how to listen and communicate effectively. I'm discovering how to understand my own emotions - for instance recognizing that anxiety is not an emotion, but rather a response to emotions (in this case fear and sadness with some anger thrown in). And I'm learning to balance my Giver with not only my Taker, but also other aspects of myself - the ability to take action, to be creative in finding solutions, and the strength to face and step into my own fears.

A couple things that are giving me hope: A friend told me yesterday that 90% or more of the things we worry about never materialize. Also, there's Dr. Harley's statement that most affairs do not result in divorce. The combination of these, along with my firm belief that deep down inside, V really does want to be with me, is giving me the strength -- renewed strength -- to keep trying.

I absolutely want to be a better man and share the rest of my days with V. But in the worst case scenario, I want to come out of this thing a better man. Reaching this place, I feel better today than I've felt in quite a while. The fear and sadness constantly threaten to rise up again, but I'm able to stare them back down.

Please, keep the advice and support coming. They mean the world.

Thank you.


My Story Me, BS, 32 WW, 22 Married 8/5/05 - Together since 10/27/03 D-Day 10/31/06 False NC 11/20/06 - Broke NC 12/4/06 NC 12/8/06 - I spoke with OM and explained that NC was essential. He agreed to NC. Broke NC approx 1/15/07 WW is currently speaking/texting with OM by phone, and planning to leave 2/15/07 if I don't make changes to my "controlling/smothering".
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