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Since things are slow around here and I'm a little bored, I thought I'd take the opportunity to throw out something I've seen posted on MB for a long time that's always bothered me. The following quote has appeared time and time again. It is even in an old posters signature line. I apologize to JustPeachy because she has referred to it as her favorite quote, however, I just find it inaccurate. Here it is: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"
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-Albert Einstein A quick google and you discover that this quote is attributed to both Franklin and Einstein, however, MANY quotes are attributed to these distinguished Americans and there is no reliable verification that either of these men ever said it. What initially bothered me about the quote was a logical problem. I pondered..."Why would an "insane" person expect ANY results....he/she is insane..deet te dee". So I decided to look up "insanity". American Heritage Dictionary:
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INSANITY - 1. Persistent mental disorder or derangement, 2. a. LAW. Unsoundness of mind sufficient in the judgment of a civil court to render a person unfit to maintain a contractual or other legal relationship or to warrant commitment to a mental hospital. b. LAW. In most criminal jurisdictions, a degree of mental malfunctioning sufficient to prevent the accused from knowing right from wrong in regard to the act he is charged with, or to render him unaware of the nature of the act when committing it. 3. a. Extreme foolishness; folly b. Somthing that is extremely foolish. Now definition number 3 may fit. It is pretty foolish, nay, extremely foolish to do the same thing over and over again and expect different results; however, that is only an example of something foolish. I can think of many other things that are extremely foolish which I would not attribute AS the definition of insanity. For example, could I say "The definition of insanity is trying again and again to win an argument with Melody Lane" other than a few of us here nobody would accept THAT as a true definition. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Finally, OTHER less common words are available to describe a person that does the same thing over and over, expecting differing results. I think the best fit is found between "Falsie" (bra padding) and "Farthing" (former 1/4 British penny coin...something of very little value, er, like this post) in the dictionary...It's FANATIC. American Heritage Dictionary:
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FANATIC - A person possessed by an excessive zeal for and UNCRITICAL attachment to a cause or position. Other words that could be utilized in the same quote may include: Extremist or Zealot. American Heritage Dictionary:
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Fanatic, extremist and zealot. These nouns denote persons who show marked and usually excessive attachment to a cause, faith, activity, or the like. FANATIC implies the pursuit of a given interest to lengths that are considered inordinate and even irrational, and often to the exclusion of virtually all other interests. EXTREMIST is not strictly limited to the basic idea that relates these terms, but frequently it is applied to one who advocates the advancement of a cause or course of action to limits far beyond those considered wise or proper by the majority, usually by means that are equally excessive. ZEALOT refers to one who is wholeheartedly devoted to a cause or goal and who typically seeks to advance it in a partisan or almost militant manner. Fanatic, I believe, is the best fit. Perhaps what the "insanity" quote lacks in definitional accuracy it makes up for by having a pithy (precisely meaningful or cogent) message. I mean, when a betrayed spouse that is beating his/her head against the wall but doing nothing to bust up the affair is told the "insanity" definition quote above I think they get the implication (i.e. - DO something, anything other than what you are doing). Would it be more or as effective to say/quote it right?? Perhaps..."The definition of fanatic is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result" then giving credit to another icon, say, Wayne Campbell (of Wayne's World fame)(since Einstein and Franklin are likely made up, we might as well be a bit more creative this time). I guess not. But I'll try it for awhile anyway. Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Mrs Wondering, can't you find something else for Mr. W to do? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Me FWW 36
BH 50
D-day 1 2/18/06
D-day 2 3/28/06 (same EA)
NC 3/28/06 and going strong
7 total children
Mine/ours live with us
DS 15
DD 12
DD 21 months
"With all it's shams, lies, and broken dreams, life is still wonderful. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."
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Mrs Wondering, can't you find something else for Mr. W to do? LOL Mrs. Rob...I tried, but he is INSANE don'cha'know??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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Somebody has too much time on their hands! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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3. a. Extreme foolishness; folly b. Somthing that is extremely foolish.
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Now definition number 3 may fit. It is pretty foolish, nay, extremely foolish to do the same thing over and over again and expect different results; however, that is only an example of something foolish. I can think of many other things that are extremely foolish which I would not attribute AS the definition of insanity. But it is saying that foolishness *is* another definition of insanity, which is why it is included in the definition. So, when one calls doing the same thing over and over again "insane," they are using the definition described in #3, rather than the def. in #1, "persistent mental disorder." When I refer to insanity in the context of alcoholism, I don't usually mean mental disorder, but profound foolishness as described in #3.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
in·sane /ɪnˈseɪn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-seyn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. not sane; not of sound mind; mentally deranged.
2. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a person who is mentally deranged: insane actions; an insane asylum.
3. utterly senseless: an insane plan.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Somebody has too much time on their hands! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> LOL...Hey, I'm just hopin' this post got it out of his system!!! Y'all have NO idea how long I've heard bits and pieces of this post around here(try EVERY single time he reads that quote!)...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I do always enjoy his conversation though, no matter the topic! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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You have my deepest sympathy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Actually Melody...
the quote itself is what's foolish
It completely contradicts the notion of experimentation and practice. IMO, it's far too inaccurate to have actually been said by Franklin or Einstein.
It's merely an example...not a definition.
I know plenty of sane golfers...
fanatical golfers, perhaps,
but insane???
Mr. Wondering
p.s.-Thank you for partaking in my insanity today. DD6 has the flu and Mrs. W's back is ailing and I'm just BORED.
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Synonyms for insanity are foolishness, senselessness, stupidity, etc. One of the definitions of insanity is foolishness. I can see very much how doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results is very foolish; very senseless, very insane. It makes perfect sense to me, but then, I never claimed to be sane! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus - Cite This Source Main Entry: insanity Part of Speech: noun Definition: foolishness Synonyms: aberration, absurdity, alienation, craziness, delirium, delusion, dementia, derangement, distraction, dotage, folly, frenzy, hallucination, hysteria, illusion, inanity, irrationality, irresponsibility, lunacy, madness, mania, mental disorder, mental illness, neurosis, phobia, preposterousness, psychopathy, psychosis, senselessness, stupidity, unbalance, unreasonableness, witlessness Antonyms: sanity, sense Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1) Copyright © 2006 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved. http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/insanity
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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OMG Mr. W, you have a DD6??? Our DD is SEVEN!!! Is there something you need to tell me??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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OMG Mr. W, you have a DD6??? Our DD is SEVEN!!! Is there something you need to tell me??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> UT OH!!!! Somebody be soooooooooooo busted! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Yes Melody
It's close. It is synonomous. After all a synonym is: A word having a meaning SIMILIAR to that of another in the same language...but it is not a definition.
A definition is: The act of stating a PRECISE meaning or significance.
Foolishness may define insanity...but doing the same thing over and over again expecting a differing result does not necessarily define it as well. It's certainly similiar; but fanatic is more precise...IMO.
Another example...Col. Sanders was fanatical about his chicken recipe and psuedo-franchise concept...nobody would describe him as insane (unless they were describing his facial hair)..
Mr.Wondering
Sorry Honey...DD7 has the flu.
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Melody You did see your name as an example in my original post on this thread...no???? I can think of many other things that are extremely foolish which I would not attribute AS the definition of insanity. For example, could I say "The definition of insanity is trying again and again to win an argument with Melody Lane" other than a few of us here nobody would accept THAT as a true definition. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Yes Melody
It's close. It is synonomous. After all a synonym is: A word having a meaning SIMILIAR to that of another in the same language...but it is not a definition. Fanaticism is excessive zeal, defined by overenthusiasm. One doesn't have to have be enthusiastic or zealous to make the same mistake over and over again. They can just be foolish and senseless, and usually ARE. To many, that is foolishness, senselessness, ie: insanity. Whereas, fanaticism relates more to an excessive and irrational ZEAL in a specific belief. I just don't see how fanaticism fits, whereas, I can see how insanity, foolishness or senselessness does fit. If I continually make the same mistake over and over again, its not necessarily because I have excessive zeal, but because I am foolish or senseless.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Melody You did see your name as an example in my original post on this thread...no???? I can think of many other things that are extremely foolish which I would not attribute AS the definition of insanity. For example, could I say "The definition of insanity is trying again and again to win an argument with Melody Lane" other than a few of us here nobody would accept THAT as a true definition. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I saw dis! My DH might disagree with that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Another example...Col. Sanders was fanatical about his chicken recipe and psuedo-franchise concept...nobody would describe him as insane (unless they were describing his facial hair).. But no one would say he was insane. You said this. And it makes no sense. I am not getting your point in this statement. But if Col Sanders kept burning the chicken over and over again because he had the heat too high, and then wondered why it wouldn't come out right, would you say he was "fanatical?" Or would you say he was "foolish?"
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Gawd! Wouldn't ya know it, I found another potato in my ear! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
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Gawd! Wouldn't ya know it, I found another potato in my ear! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> **snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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and I found an ear in my potato <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
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