Hi all,

Posted this at another section, pls go here to read instead of me wasting bandwidth by typing it all over again. Or perhaps a mod could move the thread over?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3142056

here is your post ... just copied & pasted

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Hi all,

Man, you know you're at the end of the road when all you've got to turn to is a forum... but perhaps strangers sometimes may give the most objective views. Pardon for the longish post, but I wanted to make sure I covered everything.

Anyway, my wife and I have been married for almost 2 years. We started out very loving and affectionate. Even though we both work, we still spend time to be with each other, though she could complain I was on the PC too much

Everything (to me) was fine until about a month ago. She had been spending a lot of time with a particular colleague of hers, another woman, but who dressed and looked somewhat like a man. She would come home and tell me things like "Oh, her car is so nice" or "We had a lot of fun at the gym" etc. I didn't think much of it, thought it was just that she connected with a new friend and all.

Then recently we went for an overseas holiday. Throughout the whole trip, they would be exchanging SMSes, which would annoy me to no end, as I felt that she would rather be spending the holiday with HER instead of with me. When we returned, she worked late and went out frequently for drinks with this friend, usually coming home around midnight and even at 4am once.

We sat down to talk a few times, and each time I highlighted that I was concerned that her relationship with this colleague was not normal, and seemed 'too much, too quick', and even asked if her friend was a lesbian, to which she replied that no, she wasn't. I gave her the benefit of the doubt and we continued on for a few weeks.

Then one day, not being able to contain my curiousity, I went through the SMSes on her mobile phone and what I saw greatly disturbed me. I came across some intimate-sounding messages, and even one saying that my wife missed this other woman (whom she sees everyday at work).

Last night I asked her to be honest with me and to tell me exactly what was going on. After all that, she just said that sometimes she just misses talking to this person, but that there was "no chemistry". This morning, I asked her to explain some of the SMSes I saw. Initially she looked a bit guilty but after I pressed her about it, she told me that yes, there was an attraction btw the two of them. To cut a long story short, 2 weeks ago they partied till late and this friend of hers was a bit drunk and started kissing and confessing that she had feelings for my wife. My wife told her it was wrong, but they continued to hang out and even occassionally hold hands in the car. Then this week, on one of their nights out, they made out in the car. Made out as in French kissing and groping. Despite asking her many times today, she told me that the hand-holdiing in the car, and the episide on Wednesday were the only 2 incidents (apart from the one where the friend confessed her feelings whilst drunk).

I still can't believe that this has happened, and I don't know if our marriage can move forward now that the trust has been shattered. I have NEVER once been unfaithful to her, and she went and did this with another woman (not sure if it would be worse had it been a man! )

She said she feels regret, and has moved out to the next room tonight. She says she wasn't thinking, and needed someone to turn to as she wasn't getting any emotional support from me. But I was trying all that time to talk to her before all this happened!! What more could I have done?

She can't stop seeing this friend as they work together quite closely, but said that whether our marriage works out or not, she's ending it with this 'friend'. I really don't know if I can trust her again, and I don't know how to go on. I'm not sure if she thinks it was wrong just because it was a 'lesbian' relationship (she denies she's a lesbian) or if she really is willing to take steps to salvage this marriage. She has given up hope of salvaging it, the way I see it.

I guess I really still do love her, but I'm not willing to re-commit if I don't know or trust her intentions. She has lied so many times before about this and didn't confess until she was caught... Does the fact that KNOWING her friend was a leabian and still carrying on after that until the incident this week indicate that she's a leabian???

Anyway, thanks for reading, if you've come this far. guess I just needed to vent

Cheers
devastated

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Well, she denies she's a lesbian..when I asked her what do you call a woman who holds hands intimately, kisses and makes out with another woman, she gets annoyed.

Basically, she has told me whether or not the marriage survives or not, she will end the relationship with the other woman. She says she regrets doing it, that she was vulnerable because she was lacking in emotional support and here comes someone who was willing to meet it and she just fell for it. She says she has no excuse on one hand, and on the other says it was also partially my fault for not giving her the emotional support when she needed me. But when I reminded her that I've been trying to get us to talk, to be honest with each other a week before the incident where the other woman first confessed to her, and that if she wanted to she could have ended it right there, she just keeps quiet. She says from the start she felt it ws wrong, cause she feels its morally wrong and against her religion, but she didn't do anything to distance herself from this woman, choosing instead to continue to hang out with her, holiding hands until the time they made out in the car this week. Up until now, she says all they've done were the hand holding and the incident in the car the other night.. and she denies there were other incidents. I don't know how to believe her anymore

She NEVER lied to me before, and I'm still trying to get used to the fact that she has been lying to me all this while. Even her best friend didn't know about this, though when I spoke to her yesterday after I found out, her best friend admitted that she felt the vibes when they went out together with the other woman for drinks last week. She asked my wife whether the friend was a lesbian and my wife denied it as well.

I really still do love her, but how do you trust someone when she has trampled on the trust you gave her. Being a Christian, I made her she swear on the bible that nothing was going on, the night before I confronted her with the SMS! This was a shock in itself as she will hold nothing sacred anymore for the sake of this infidelity

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This morning we spoke again. She told me she would be meeting the other woman at a park today -to end it she says. I can see that she's still emotionally attached and hurt from both sides and it really pains me to see her this way.

Anyhow, I told her that the ball was actually in HER court. Its not enough to tell me she'll end it with the other woman and tell me its up to me to decide on the relationship's future. I told her that I still loved her, very much so, but it was up to her to end it, or decide how she wants this to go on. I only asked that she be honest with me and not put me in the position again to be hurt. She says her biggest regret is that she did something so foolish and that she could hardly believe it herself.

All I know right now is that I do want to give this marriage another chance, to slowly work on our problems, to mend and strengthen that which has been broken. Assuming she really does want all these things, she will have to prove it (how, I don't know). Damnit, I want to believe that the woman I made just committed a MISTAKE, a one-off mistake and will not feel like she's lost something significant and want to continue the affair. Mistakes I can forgive, but not when it is done intentionally the second time.

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Thanks. Well she came home and we sat down and talked a bit more. She said she had told the other woman that it was over, and that it was a foolish mistake. and that they would steer clear of each other, other than at work. Both will try to find another job as well. Apparently both agreed to call it off and to not make it hard for each other.

I asked if she still had feelings for her and she said she'd be lying if she said she didn't, but that she wanted to move on and have more time by herself. I said I still can't put my trust in her at this point, but that I would be there for her. Then we held each other and cried. I really do love this woman and would forgive her for anything, after all we're only human and do make mistakes. But only time will tell if I can put my trust in her again, or that she won't go back to the other woman again. I guess I will have to learn to deal with the sense of betrayal, disgust and the sure-to-come feelings of resentment, but will take it one step at a time.

last one

We spoke again just now, breifly, and she told me that not only would I not trust her from this point on (and she doesn't blame me), but she will have a hard time trusting herself. She has said that she wants some time to reflect alone, so she will go to the gym after work alone and continue to sleep in the next room alone as well for the next week or so at least. She says she feels really torn up inside, and guilty cause she has hurt me, herself and the other woman, and though it was her lesbian frient who initiated things, she allowed it to happen. She said she felt realy guilty knowing that I still loved her so much, and it would be hard to live with the fact (for both of us). She says she will let me know should she need any emotional support or feel the need to be with someone.

On my part, I told her she needed to let me know if there was any contact with the other woman, apart from work-related contact (which can't be avoided while she searches for a new job). She must also let me know where she is at and to not stay out late, unless its with some of her close girlfriends whom I know personally and trust.

How do we proceed from here on? Are we on the right track? I want to trust that she has really ended it, am 95% sure that she wants it too NOW, but the last few months and especially the last 2 weeks they have been especially close, so I don't know if they (both) will be able to stay away. Are these good starting steps, or is there anything else we could be doing?

Welcome. We have had a couple people here before whose wife was involved with a lesbian. I think it has more to do with getting her emotional needs met.

See if she will take the emotional needs questionnaire here, and determine if you can do a better job of meeting the top ones.

I suggest that she get another job quickly. These things have a tendency to flare back up.

There are some lesbians who prey on married women (apologies to any lesbians reading this, note the word SOME). I used to work with one who hit on ONLY married women.

Your wife is showing the right attitude and behavior, and I'm very hopeful for your marriage.

There is a part in Frank Pittman's book "Private Lies" where he talks about

curiosity as a significant drive for innocents.

He says that curiosity can grow to where the innocent are prey for passing seducers.

Might this be a part of what happened with your wife?

Pep

Hey thanks Pepperband for posting it all... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thought i'd just link it.

We spoke briefly tonight, cause she came home late and has a long day tomorrow. I told her all I had read, the affair was like an addiction, and at some point both she and the other woman will suffer from the pain of withdrawal and try to meet up, and that may trigger another round. But I made it clear that if it does happen again, it would be the end of our marriage. I told her that she had not had a clean break from the lesbian, and that they still had feelings for each other and even a goodbye hug. And although they both agreed to steer clear eventually they may get back together again if her current emotional vulnerability is not patched up or her emotional needs were not met.

She replied that she was feeling very indifferent and numb at the moment but doesn't deny that she does miss the other woman. She has carefully avoided responding to anything at all when I mentioned about the lesbian relationship, or when I commented that did she realize it was another woman she was involved in, which also kinda worries me. She says it will be difficult to just erase her out of her mind, it was like losing a really good friend. Also all this while she has not said she wanted the marriage to get back on track 100%, or even something along the lines of "I'm sorry, I've made a big mistake, can you forgive me?" etc.

I guess I was just hoping she will wake up one morning and go "What the ****** was I thinking? Geez!" but that hasn't happened. Her silence when and slight impatience when we talk sometimes makes me think that I'm talking too much. But at the back of my mind I'm constantly thinking, what if they get back together again? or What else has she not told me about the relationship?

I mean so far the worse was the holding hands and making out in the car, but I'm paranoid -did they get more intimate at all and she's refusing to tell me? Is it possible? But most of all, would it make a difference to me whether they just kissed and fondled each other as opposed to them being in bed together or something like that?? I'm as confused

I don't know what to think anymore. I don't think it was curiousity -she had never had any lesbian tendencies at all before. I think it was more that our marriage was starting to become too routine, she was still in the playful stage and had a husband who just wanted to sit home and feed the fish, wash the car or play the computer, as opposed to her gym sessions, window shopping etc. I probably wasn't meeting her emotional needs or showing enough care -and I am a grouch!

So along comes this colleague who thinks in the same wavelength as she does, who works closely together with her, who shows care and concern for her, who helps her out at work etc.. As time went on their relationship went from colleagues to close friends and then to something more. From all accounts, the lesbian was the one who initiated the relationship, but by then my wife was a willing participant in the affair. Amazing they way they would lie through their teeth all the way about it too, until she was caught.

I've no doubt that should the relationship resurface, it would be very very difficult to catch her at it again. The SMS thing was a once-off thing, it won't work the second time around.

Anyway, tomorrow's Monday, back to the real world, which strangely enough, still kinda hazy to me...

She won't have regret about her actions unless she has no contact with the other woman. I would work on that.

I suppose what concerns me most at this point is either:

1. She thinks the marriage is ruined and even if we get back together again, it will still be the same boring old thing, or

2. She is suffering from withdrawal from the affair and wants that gratification that comes from it, even at the expense of our marriage, or putting the consequences out of her mind, like she did before

Why I mentioned 1:
Speaking to her since Saturday, she has only mentioned in passing about hurting me. Instead she has spoken at length about how she has good friends and something like this would also let them down, that her parents would be disappointed with her (her mum was the victim of infidelity also). When asked whether she wants this marriage to proceed or not her answer has always been either silence or that she needs time to think as she says "I know you'll never be able to put this behind us"

Why I mentioned 2:
Although she tells me that she's sure she wants to end things with the other woman, she doesn't deny that they could 'relapse' especially since they both work closely together. Even now she's starting to build up a wall between us, with the same kind of non-committal answers but without the pretense of having to keep up the act as a loving wife. I could not tolerate it should she be seeing the other woman again, which to me is likely to happen should any contact continue. I mean, an innocent 'one-for-old times' sake' drink could lead to other things. Worse than the physical infidelity, the psychological and emotional infidelity and dependence is equally crushing.

I hear that the feelings of longing will usually last for 3 weeks or so. During that time what should I do? For example, tonight she's bringing her out-of-town colleagues out together with the other woman. Should I drive her around and hang around until she's done and then fetch her home, to avoid any time for them to have a quiet moment to themselves? I offered and she replied that she doesn't feel comforable with this and that she feels suffocated and it will only drive us further apart. She says right now her resolve to end things (with the other woman) is strong, and that she will let me know should she need more support. I have no choice but to give her this space, but I have already made it clear that I would not tolerate another betrayal should it happen again.

I mentioned marriage counselling, but she said she'll think about it. I really don't know what else I can do. I've put aside my anger and hurt and try to support her, but really, not knowing if its appreciated or even wanted is wearing my patience and resolve thin...

I kills me when I asked her if she loved the other woman, and she said yes, but different from what we have. Man, dumb question to ask huh? I feel like a knife has been thrust into my heart and I'm just stumbling around work today all numb. If she has such deep emotional ties, could they have been doing more then just making out that one time in the car like she claims??

Hi all,

Sorry to be posting again. I guess I feel all alone right now, and I'm so hurt I don't know what to do. Looking back at the SMSes we used to send each... we were so much in love, what the ****** went wrong? Did the reality and responsibility of marriage sink in and caused her to panic and to then do something rash and stupid? Or did she fall out of love with me, when all this while I was thinking that we were still in love? Was this my fault? Did I drive her away by my lack of emotional support, my frequent bad moods, not showering her with enough affection and love??

How do I remain strong for the both of us when it hurts so bad? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

This morning I printed out the Part 1 and 2 from the Coping with Infidelity series, How do affairs begin, and how to end it and gave told her that if she had time to try and read it. I told her it had helped my understand more on what had happened, as well as on some of the steps we could take to save our mariage, and that if she wanted to or had time, to try and read some of it. She said ok and I left it on her bed.

On the way to work she looked at me and asked me how I was. I told her I'll live and she remarked that it sounded worse than what she was experiencing. I told her "Honestly, and without trying to rub it in anymore, it hurts like ******. And unless you go through it, you will not know how much it hurts. But I have to be strong now, for both of us. There will be a time for us to deal with things later". After that she just held my hand until we arrived at my office and then she drove off.

I really think that at this point, she knows that she's hurt me, herself and the OW, but she doesn't realize to what extent, as she's probably still trying to recover from the loss of the affair and CAN'T see the larger picture. I wrote her an email, which she has not yet read, telling her I want to move on, and for her to tell me how I can better meet her needs and to be a better husband, but I also need honesty from her on the extent of the affair, when it started, what was done, what was said so that I can have some closure on the issue. I said that if she wasn't ready to tell, then just say so, but not to lie more to cover up cause we need to rebuild the marriage on trust. Not sure how she'll react to the email, but we'll see.

Are we on the right track?

Sorry, I don't know much about spouses having affairs with the same sex, but I would suspect the connection is very much the same. Connection with another at the expense of spousal disconnection.

Here are a compiled list of articles showing every stage of an affair. I hope it helps. You must get your wife to quit her job and to keep her away from the OW for recovery to begin.

http://www.surviving-infidelity-kit.com/

Good Luck

TooSoon

"I hear that the feelings of longing will usually last for 3 weeks or so. During that time what should I do? For example, tonight she's bringing her out-of-town colleagues out together with the other woman. Should I drive her around and hang around until she's done and then fetch her home, to avoid any time for them to have a quiet moment to themselves?"

The feelings of longing stop AFTER there is no contact. She must quit her job. I would insist on it. Your marriage will not recover without them being apart.

Thanks for the link...looking through, there were many tell-tale signs that I now see which I didn't think much of before beyond a nagging suspicion.

Some of the things pointed out were like:

1. Personal appearance - while my wife was a regular gym goes, lately she had been going a lot more to the gym, always with the OW and telling me she felt really good, was losing weight.

"Lifestyle Changes - Has your spouse suddenly taken up a new hobby? Do they suddenly like to listen to a new type of music? BIG TIPOFF - Have they suddenly fixated on ONE song - especially a love song? (This happens more with female cheaters than male, but I'd look for it either way). "

-This is true. She had suddenly begun buying certain CDs, when she had not bought CDs for years. Kept listening to the same CDs also and things like that. One of the SMSes I read which she received from the other woman went something like "Just bought a new jazz CD in my car, guess who its for?" Other SMSes that my wife sent called the OW a "charmer" etc. Alarm bells were already ringing, but I guess i just didn't want to believe it.

Another sign is that she keeps some clothes and some grooming products in the car when she didnt use to to it before. Everytime she went to the gym she would being along a gym bag and bring that back, cause shampoo and such is provided for in the gym. So I was suspicious when I saw a toiletries bag in the car boot the other day and its still there. Signs of a continuing affair, or just forgotten to take out since shes so busy?

Other factors like time accounted for, well, I've always felt safe cause she was always hanging out with another WOMAN, who would have expected that my wife with no prior interest or inclination for lesbians would fall for one.

Early on the alarm bells were already ringing when she told me things like "We've become very close friends... its like we know what each other is thinking... we can complete each others sentences etc"

Geez, how could I have been so blind?

Do you know or not if she is in a PA with the OW? When stated love and emotional feelsings are consumated with sex, it makes it harder to break the bond and affair. You might do some more prying to find out what you are up against.

Dev

a few observations.... I would stop asking her if she wants the M right now, she has no idea if shes Arthur or Martha, if you want the M just make a simple clear positive statements " I want this M to work', 'We can work on any issues and have a good M' etc.
Her statements such as 'You will never forgive/forget' etc etc are both expressions of firstly fear, and also justification.
I also suspect she is trying to pass on guilt to you when she comments that her Mum will be so disappointed etc ... its guilt tripping manipulation .. if you tell her family and they get upset its YOUR fault not her actions.

I am suspicious the affair is ongoing. Why? her comments of wanting some "time alone' etc is a usually good sign the A is ongoing. She also avoids any talk of the M, trys to avoid being with you on outings etc.

While contact is ongoing you must assume the A is ongoing but driven underground. If the A is 'over' why would she even consider taking her friends out with this ow?

I feel exposure may need to be considered soon if there is any sign you have of the A continuing. You may need to do some investigation.

Sorry don't think its over really at all. You just busted them so they are being sneaky. SHE MUST LEAVE THE WORK PLACE.

Hi aussiewife,

Well, the outings I mentioned were all work related. The company organized a large conference this week and they've had to show the out of town guests around. She didn't want me there because it would be strange for her husband to be tagging along all the time.

On an impulse I decided to drop by her office today and check out the carpark for both their cars since she had said she was going out for lunch. I thought that if her car was there and the OW's car wasn't there, that they had taken the OW's car again. But both cars were not there and when I called she told me most of the office went out for lunch together, the OW included. I didn't tell her I was at her office I guess, but it did help to reduce by a fraction some of my suspicions.

When I call her up, her replies are slightly defensive, maybe she's hiding something, or maybe she's just tired of being checked on like a paroled prisoner, its getting harder to tell the more emotional toll this whole sordid affair (no pun intended) is eroding away any rationalism. However, not talking about the marriage, or of any genuine request to be forgiven etc do make me think the worse. I don't really know her colleagues so asking them about her whereabouts may tip her off and cause a furious row. I don't know what else I can do. But the fact that she's still working late, and seeing the OW at work doesn't look good. Leaving the job immediately is also not an option, as her job pays for the car and such, and unless she finds something which also provides a car allowance, we probably cannot financially handle her being out of work.

Also her denials that she is a lesbian, and her silence when I ask if she realizes she got intimate with another WOMAN tells me either she doesn't want to think about that fact, choosing to bury her sense of morality and her religious beliefs or that she's in denial or too ashamed to admit the extent of the affair, even to herself.

I'm not sure what else I can do at this point. Her evasiveness and slight defensiveness when she comes home and I start asking questions could really be her getting fed up with the questioning, gentle though they may be, or....arrrgh!