I wouldn't confront him w/ every little thing.

Wait until you have good solid proof, and you expose to everyone w/ it.

I'm going to post to you a post written by a poster named Ark..she is very good w/ Plan A...


~ Marsh

Plan A is ALL about the assumption that the WS is still in the affair or in contact...
this is your map to navigating those treacherous waters...

it also is your big moment to diffuse all the excuses WS are prone to use to justify their behavior and choices....

and more you can diffuse their blame...

the bs is "always depressed"
the bs "always wants to talk about relationships"
the bs "is controlling"
the bs "yells all the time"
etc....

the more you remove those things...and the more you remove yourself from any powerstruggles of insanse things...

he said she said..
etc...
the more your disengage from arguements..again the more they have look at their own actions and choices....

here's what I told familymatters..One of the biggest mistakes that people make in plan A is that they begin to meet their spouses needs....and still hold on to great expectations of reward and reinforcement from their spouse....

plan a is ALL about learning to give and do for a bit with NO expectation of ANYTHING in return...

the giving of self and gifts with no strings attached....

I have quoted the silly add campaign for some perfume in the 70's here before...but I think it fits....

It went like this ...

"if you want to get someones attention...
whisper."..

plan a is like a whisper of behaviors and actions...
plan a should not be huge demonstrative expressions of love and romance...

WS are incapable of accepting those things...
part of that is that their actions at the time of continuing an affair are NOT loving and lovable...
and they KNOW it..
sometimes they know it better than their BS...who still want to use words like love to them...

so they get resentful
or shut down
or depressed..
or it solidifies their belief that they are so "bad" or so far gone...it feeds into their excuse and defense of unworthiness...

plan a is about filling the home with love and light in other ways...

it about an upbeat environment without the deep doom cloud hanging overhead..

it is about a home filled with children's activities and joy when applicable and it is about inviting and drawing the wS into those times and activities....

and even when they refuse to come in to the joy...the joy goes on without them...

BS that do a good plan a...say they feel like their WS didn't notice..or only was receptive now and then...and then their involvement and particpation increased...

WS that were handed a good plan a...say they watched and noticed EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING....even when the bS thought they didn't notice a thing....

WS are in great turmoil...and human nature is in conflict to take ALWAYS the path of the least resistance.....

the path of least resistance...is withdrawal and wallowing in self loathing and pity..

the path of least resistance is the OP..for they can not judge and force the WS to see their own actions...because they are as guilty as the other....

so plan A'rs.....need to stop ALL relationship talk..
all talk of love...

you do things that are subtle...
like put a CD in that the WS likes...and just enjoy if yourself...and if they enjoy it also...so be it..
even better yet when it is a blast from the past CD...one that speaks of a history...without blatant insistance that the wS remember this or that....

just history...

the person in plan A...needs to be upbeat and charming...they need to see that the BS is capable of fun and joy...because if all they ever see is a BS lost in the pain..then it will solidify their belief that the pain the WS has caused will never go away...and no one can stand to see the pain they have inflicted day after day...(unless psychotic or sadistic)

the person in plan a needs to engage family and friends in fun activites always always always inviting the wS to join in...
they need to see that things can and could be normal again....

plan a can be leaving a love note...but more impressive a joke...
buy an old farside book and make copies of the really really funny ones....
or the old calvin and hobbs.......
and leave those posted about...
WS seek false joy and laughter....
bring them back to real laughter.....

plan a'rs need to learn to babble back to the insanity that Ws say..and give the babble no leverage or "to die for importance"....

plan a'rs need a time limit of doing plan a with a concrete plan when to go to plan b..
the better the plan b..the better the reality of the consequances of plan b...

make plans to things the wS likes to do..
baseball games..
movies
etc..
and when they dont' want to go..
still go and do them..
be up up up up beat...

draw them to you and your home like a moth to a flame...

work on yourself
find an outside interest that gives you some relief ..

expect nothing nothing nothing from the Ws within a limited time period and free yourself in to the ability to give and do for your spouse better than you ever had....

WS are not used to getting thing with no strings attached....
it will confuse and baffle them...but when they try to use the old "your pressuring me excuse"..it will fall on their empty ears..cause they know that has not been the case..

take them a coffee expresso piled high with whip cream...at work or bring it home to them...and leave it for them..
don't badger them to thank you
don't badger them to tell you how much they liked it..
lay it at their feet and walk away whistling...
find the joy in the act of giving and doing and not in the receptiveness....

hard hard hard hard it is......
but set the time frame and go for it....
anyone can do anything for six weeks..
(except ATKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

and pray for Gods Grace to enter your heart and home...
pray for serenity...
make you house the home where you and the kids and WS would want to be....


become strong...
become confident
become engaging and charming...

realize that YOU the BS are not lovable or desirable..based on your spouses giving or taking of love...
that you stand alone in this world..
lovabe and desirable...inspite of your spouses...


that's why plan A is all about each and every encounter and glimpse in to you and your home life being as engaging and attractive.....


plan a is all about doing what you can to end an affair....
plan a is built on the presumption that they are in contact...
that's why your contact needs to be better and with more value and depth....

this does not mean that you don't set boundaries on what you will tolerate in your life..

you will not "babysit" the kids so she can go with the OP...

you don't condone any contact..
but you don't powerstruggle it either...


if you think your spouse is going to go out with op don't make it easy for them..don't watch the kids...make plans first...and leave him or her with the kids...etc

hope this helps some..
ark”

Here's Pep's Carrot and stick Plan A...

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

Ark's plan says it counts on contact w/OW. do i have enough evidence of contact?

Contact means ANY kind of contact.

So, yes, your WH is still in contact w/ OW...they work together.


~ Marsh

first, the replies about Plan A have helped me so much tonight. I even took notes. So thanks everyone. I was betrayed by my long time 12 yr. living together boyfriend, who had a PA and EA with someone he works with. They see each other in work and she calls (he admits) and probably texts him still. He says she is concerned since he told her that he needs to go to counseling because he has issues. D-day 11/26. My story is from blind_hope, titled Betrayed...and wondering how long to be patient and wait (or something like that).
Pray4Restoration-
I used to date someone I worked with, he broke up with me and we still had to work together. Even after he started dating someone else, I wanted to believe we still had a "special bond." So, I can imagine what OW does to see him in work. She emails him and he responds. She calls and he talks. And as soon as the next cell phone bill comes, I'll know how much. I read to him the dates he called her- 6 months of calling every day even though they work together. And he wondered why we had no connection. I think I shocked him with how much he talked to her. Read him the dates and let him hear the facts. If only they put that energy into addressing the issues in the committed relationship.

He told me they were friends when I asked him whose phone # it was and I believed because I used to be a jealous person and am beyond that I'd like to think. 6 hrs. later she called the home phone from her car in front of our house, because he was supposed to go back there. He said I was never supposed to find out. He laughed when I sarcastically asked in the AM if the phone # was my replacement. Direct questions. It was all a lie- they slept together, he stayed at her house when I was out of town, he introduced her to his sister and mother, he met her parents...I had NO IDEA for 7 months and believed EVERY word he said. I hope your situation is different but from a newly betrayed person, it started with "an emotional connection", phone calls every day, then he 'checked out' of our relationship, and he admits each decision he made was without thought of consequences. Everything was a lie. They “had a connection” because we had lost ours and it was easier than addressing the challenges of 12 years. I am not an expert and don't want you to freak out. But, just wanted to say you are doing the right thing by trying to find out what is going on. You'll figure it out if it's there or God will bring you the message loud and clear. If they are only friends, ask to meet her. Notice if he sends you away or spends time "with friends" without including you. I was clueless and in hindsight, see how it happened. I only wish I had noticed something after a couple months before he "fell in love with her." I contributed to environment that led to affair. I was nowhere near a Plan A attitude when affair started so hopefully it will stop yours before it goes farther. Hang in there. Good luck.
blind_hope

got cell phone bills last week--OUCH! tried to talk to WH about my hurt...his attitude confirmed that NC had been broken (even though he lied about it) continued snooping and found out that WH and OW were still talking at school. met with counselor on thursday who advised me to "become his mistress" in order to give him something to come home to. exposed A to my parents and sister/brother-in-law.

yesterday i found a card to OW in WH's briefcase. i took his phone and keys and left the house. stayed gone all day--didn't answer his calls--left him alone at the house to think.

i called OW (she's on vacation) from WH's phone and asked her to stay away from WH.

while at home yesterday, he found the book, "Not Just Friends" and read most of it while i was gone. i came back last night to talk. he says that he realizes now that "inappropriate relationship" was an EA, that it's wrong, that he sees WHY he has to have NC with OW and OWH. he says he will do anything i ask to rebuild trust.

Hi Pray!



What did the card say?

I take it, your WH knows you found it, right?

Did you save the card to show OWH?



Good.



Good.

Is he going to ask for a transfer?

~ Marsh

the card says..."i think about you...even when i should be working". yes, he knows i found it; yes, i saved it.

luckily she is in Florida and they have two weeks off work, so the withdrawal can start w/out a chance that they'll run into each other. the agreement that we've come to-for when school starts back-is that he will not go into the main building (where OW is) if at all possible. he can have a student assistant check his mail, make copies, etc. for him. he's going to talk to his principal when he gets back (she had been concerned about the time they spent together at school and had talked with both of them a couple of weeks ago) and tell her that the EA is over and explain what he is doing to ensure that it stays that way.

he met w/OWS today to ask for his help in NC. surprisingly, OWS was pissed that he thought the relationship was wrong! we have suspicions that he has his own OW on the side...

This is a good start.

Has he agreed to writing OW a NC letter?

You're going to have to hold his feet to the fire about sticking to NC...it's going to be REALLY hard to do, especially since you can't expect help from OWH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />




Oh boy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, something sounds very weird there.

I hope it creeps your WH out to think that he may have been getting close to a VERY weird couple.

-----------------------

Have you printed out the emotional needs questionaire yet?

It'd be a good idea to find out what his top EN's are and make sure you're trying to meet them.

And you fill one out for him too.


~ Marsh

Pray, your H could be tellng you this so you will think the OWH knows and does not care, so you WILL NOT CONTACT HIM yourself. Or he could have told the OWH a complete whopper about this. This would not surprise me in the least. You cannot imagine how sneaky a WS is when trying to maintain or conceal an affair.

This story DOES NOT ADD UP and in affairville, when things don't add up, that usually means some sort of DECEIT is taking place.

I would strongly suggest you call up the OWH YOURSELF and discuss the affair with him. If everything your H is saying is true, it can't harm anything anyway. And if your H is not being truthful, then you could clear that right up.

yes, he is open to the NC letter. this has been a long, exhausting day...so much talking, questioning...she did so many little things for him, was there for him when i wasn't. it makes me very sad. we have a lot of work to do! but i do feel that we are on the right track.

what do you suggest we do with the NC letter to make sure that OWH doesn't intercept it (crazy that we should even be concerned w/that!)? he could leave it on her desk for when school starts back, but that isn't until 1/3/07. we leave town for the holidays on wednesday; she returns from vacation on thursday.

also...how do you support a WS who is in withdrawal?

Have him give the NC to his principal asking her to deliver it to OW. That way he can explain what has happened and more importantly what he NOW plans to do about it.

Having the NC letter delivered to OW by her boss ought to help re-enforce its message.


Be willing to listen to him.

Even the painful stuff.

You just really need to be patient and let him go through this.

It sucks, I know, but keep telling your WH that it DOES get easier as time goes on.

~ Marsh

editted to add: I re-read your post and see that you want her to have the message before you leave for vacation....

Why??? Do you think she'll try to contact him while you're away?

well...to make a long story short...after three months of what appeared to be a lame attempt at recovery, i find a suspicious cell phone bill and one very defensive WS. so...what now? plan a again? plan b now? i am so very tired of this!!

I'm so sorry to hear this, Pray, but I'm not surprised.

I'd recommend Plan B.

See a lawyer. Get your ducks in a row. Find a person to be your go between. Write your Plan B letter.

Post it here first if you want some feed back on it.

And then go VERY VERY dark.

This is the plan that is MOST effective. Especially if you have worked a good Plan A.

Hang in there.

~ Marsh

i am trying to find the previous forums where Plan B Letters are discussed...i'm kinda in the dark here...help...

i have asked him to move out and given two days for him to decide where he is going. i told him that if he doesn't move out i will.