Oh Julie, let me count the ways!! Those people over there in Alanon know every little trick, every little conjob we pull! We can GET AWAY WITH NOTHING once those Alanon people get ahold of our spouses! WE HATE THEM! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

See, almost every alcoholic is a professional bullcrap artist who has to run a con to be able to get away with what he does. He has to convince his spouse/employer/parent on a regular basis that he can control his drinking and it was just a fluke that he busted up the place last night! We have a bottomless BAGFUL of excuses about why we got drunk. We have to do some serious dancing to get out of these scrapes and to get back to drinking as usual. It is HARD WORK to drink like we do and continually get away with what we do!

And this is the problem with Alanon. They educate them to all our little ploys and tricks, which can RUIN a perfectly good thing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

STOP! You are doing this BECAUSE you love him, nothing else. You'll regret never addressing this and taking a stance! If he refuses, then you did what you could and you should be content with that.

PLEASE, force the issue and stop the dispair!

Call it a BOUNDARY. This is YOUR boundary and he makes the choice to respect it or not. A boundary is useless if there are no consequences for crossing it.

I would not be 21 years sober if my H had not given me such an option. He told me "AA or the highway." It was up to me to choose. I will be eternally grateful for that man for loving me enough to puch me over the fence.

"you are a big boy, you can drink all you want anytime you want. I am not your momma and am not going to police your behavior.

However, if you want to stay married to me, you must stop drinking and get help for your problem."

That's just it...he doesn't want to drink 'all you want' according to him yesterday & today. He just wants to know this isn't a life sentence. So I'll agree, and 3 years from now I'll be calling 911 again because he earned his way up to 8 beers a night for "good behavior" I can't win! If me & my boundaries aren't enough then nothing else will be!

Sorry for the pity party everybody. I don't see any lights at the end of this tunnel.

Why don't you just take a break, attend some Alanon meetings and let all this sink in? Don't do anything, except tell him you are not his momma and are not going to police him. If he quits he has to police himself.

You dont have to make any decisions about anything right now, Julie.

Julie, you know you need to do this. Now is the preverbial fork in the road for you. The easy way or the hard way. This time you know must go the hard way. You have not traveled this path and it's scarey, but the end result is better. You have 2 people here who have taken on this program and are in full support of you and your husband.

Ooohh, this reminds me, he said that to me tonight: "you're saying your way or the highway" But it's NOT "my way".

And then more ramblings about the stuff he's asked me to address/fix, that I still haven't really.

So, I guess he's already refused it, in a round-about way. This is draining. I told him I know what *I* need for my future. He said that involves *HIM* changing. Even though I haven't changed. What leg do I have to stand on? He's absolutely right!

It's over guys, it's over and we need to accept that.

The seemingly "Life sentence" will be a life AWAKENING if he accepts the program fully. Please believe that. Through it and your Alanon, you will BOTH change TOGETHER. That's fair isn't it?

...except if he can live here or not.

Tell him you will BOTH go to the respective meetings! e-mail me and I can try to help him. At this point what's to lose?

I'm going home now and off to a meeting. Sleep on this.

IF you go to Alanon, they will recommend that you make no major decisions for 6 months. You would learn in Alanon that you are affected by his drinking FAR more than you can see right now and it is what if impairing your ability to make decisions.

You should realize that he is already telling you that he will drink again. I've been there, done that SO MANY TIMES. It will make you crazy.

You must realize that you WILL lose him to alcohol if you don't take advantage of this opportunity. In an intervention they have the alcoholics bags packed before they meet. They do this because the experts KNOW that you HAVE to seize the moment before they realionalize it away. It's how alcoholics work.

If you want to remove this insanity from your life AND try to save your family, stand tall, stand firm. Do NOT let him back without a firm committment. It has been working for me.

You can do this. You must, because he is not capable at this moment.

Does that make any sense?

Honestly? No. Not really. It's already driving me crazy. How can I be a sitting duck for 6 months? I'm not currently feeling EXTREME pressure to let him back home, but I know that if I keep him gone 6 mos. this house will likely foreclose.

I guess I should at least ask him if he'll go to AA. I mean, he's said he'll quit...BUT

So what if I let him home if he says he'll quit...BUT...and attends meetings? Yes, I'll go too.

AA & Alanon...are they free?

yep!

We can afford it then. DD/10 just came down crying. She's been so strong all this while. I had her call him. Uy!

Julie -

You are doing EXTREMELY well. The right thing is never the easy thing. Please go to Alanon, no matter what he decides to do.

I can tell you that I think ANYONE who continues to drink and drive in these times, with the awful penalties, is an alcoholic. It is too much of a chance to take. Aside from getting in an accident, the penalties and fines, attorneys, schools to attend, and high insurance rates, makes it crazy to take the chance.

The thing about it is that you and your children deserve to feel safe. I know what it is like to live with a drinker, never able to enjoy anything, always on pins and needles, wondering if the next drink is going to be the one that puts them over the top.

The cool thing about Al Anon is that they not only help you understand the con job the alcoholic plays on you, they also let you see the con job you play on yourself - the double speak about ultimatums and boundaries is just an example. I loved a part in Cloud and Townsend's book "Boundaries" where they instructed to tell someone you love "NO" and see if they love you back enough to say "OK" or if they don't they will argue with you. Right now, your husband is addicted - so he is not himself and definitely doesn't love you more than the drink. So he's willing to argue with you rather than love you.

You just have to love him enough to say, "NO" when he asks permission to take something that has the potential for such great harm to himself, you, your children - and have you believe he's earned the right to ask that. And you have to love him and yourself and your children enough to keep right on saying NO, regardless of the argument or persuasion art he decides to try to use on you. Expect hearts and flowers tomorrow, and the next day rage, whatever he's used in the past to manipulate you... Get to an Al-Anon meething so that you can keep saying "NO" to the drunk, so that you have a chance to say "YES" to the sober and clean guy!

When he's truly sober to the core, he'll love you enough - and himself enough - and God enough - to say "OK" and mean it! One day at a time, for the rest of his life!

People, people...I miss my husband. Tomorrow is his 30th birthday and he's going to wake up on somebody's couch. My daughter called him crying to please come home, and she knows it's me who won't "let" him here. I just filled stockings for my kids and as I'm sure H suspected, came within inches of calling him.

At 5-ish he sent me a text message saying he'll quit drinking. At 9-ish he stopped in to drop off stocking stuffers for the kids & tell me where the stockings are - up high where he keeps all that stuff - I'm 4'11.5". He knew I couldn't get up there w/o his help. The tables have turned!?!?!?!?

WHEN should I let him home? Nobody's answered that for me, in all your efforts to tell me what a great job I'm doing.

Julie,

Just had to post. haven't done that much and never got much replies in my post but maybe I can help.

I can relate to DedicatedFather. I went down the path of alcohol. Almost 11 months sober now. It was real rough in the begining for me because I KNEW I needed AA's help to help me, to help me save my marriage. (My eyes were opened during MC) Thing is it may be too late for my marriage. Thing haven't gotten better. Wife doesn't give me support or work on our relationship. I wonder if she is WW sometimes. Lack of support most of the time I am OK with because I know I have to prove myself and fix myself. And I know I have to fix me. I cann't fix her.

A couple thought I have for you.

You can guide him to AA. You really can not make him go.If you do he may not realy get it. In order to want AA an alcoholic has to hit a bottom. Most bottoms are not a skid row drunk. But everones bottom is different and has to be felt by the alcoholic.They say the skid row drunk has a better chance of making it because he has been shown the way out of ******. But again everone has his own bottom.

If he is willing to give it a try you need to be patient with him. But not tolerant. Sugest just 90 meeting in 90 days and see where you are at that point. That is only 3 months. he will be seeing things differently at that point. I almost bet. Feeling alot better too.


You have to ask yourself too, if he is alcoholic and has been negotiating future drinking now, what if he does turn to AA now and get better. What will I do when he falles off the wagon so to speak. And goes back out in 3 years. what will you do then? It is possible to happen. He will have the knowledge of how to get back up however. Or he may not go back out. The key is the step work. Which is work. Some have made it to AA and were dry drunks for short or long periods, went back out, came back did the step work and achived sobriety.

His willingness is key.

One more thing about AA. Someone may have covered this. AA is not about not drinking. It is a suport group to help you achieve that by looking within ourself. The only requirement is the willingness not to drink.