X calls, says that she has been a poor parent, but doesn't know where she went wrong, and wants me to take 17 yo son over Christmas break. my response:

[color:"blue"]X:

I vividly remember that you claimed to be the better parent, back in 2000, the reasons were situational, nothing substantial.
The situation you used was that you came home after 3 PM after work. You made other illogical, irrational, statements to justify your divorce actions.
You also made statements that the only mistakes that you ever made were listening to me, with one exception.
There was neither then nor much now that I can say or do to change your opinion except to let you experience the results of your own decisions, without
being able to blame someone else. Your problem is that you expect certain behaviors without training or teaching or exhibiting the desired behaviors.
If you don't have those behaviors of self responsibility, of respect, how do you expect to model them and teach them? you can't and alex is the result,
and abigail is not far behind. You are an excellent math teacher, but that is because there is a book, or has been a book with answers that after awhile,
you learn yourself. Parenting has a book, but its called your family of origin (FOO), and if your FOO doesn't teach you respect, but teaches selfishness,
then unless you take responsibility and attempt to learn to correct those FOO issues, everyone, and you are no exception, are bound to repeat the
issues, unless you actively take responsibility to learn correct and exhibit proper behaviors that will persist a lifetime.

The behaviors that you now see are the results of your own selfishness and controlling behavior, along with unequal beliefs about genders, unless
you want something. Your basic relationship mode is one of manipulation for your own selfish needs, you will say whatever is convenient at the moment
to justify whatever you want to happen. Because of these choices, your personal and familial relationships wither away, and there is very little
depth of relationship with anyone. You have very good answers that you rationalize your responsibility away, and blame someone else, while
trying to rid yourself of the emptiness that you often feel inside yourself.

So now that the results of your lack of self responsibility and parenting skills are maifesting themselves in our children's behavior around you,
ie, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree,
ie, you adapt and learn from your environment, just like in the classroom,

you want me to pick up the pieces, but not really, you want me to take them away so that you
don't have to see your own behaviors reflected in the kids, in your house.

Its time that you took responsibility, and learned to solve your own problems, and grew up and learned
to take responsibility. Better late than never to learn to parent properly, to learn to take personal responsibility,
and to learn how to teach the behaviors.

The life long learning way to do accomplish the learning of self responsibility, is through counseling, because with a good counselor,
s/he will actively encourage taking responsibility, and will hold you accountable for lack of self responsibility, ie, blaming everyone/anyone else.
A good counselor will also see through manipulation, and will actively work to eliminate manipulation.

So at the moment, I will not take alex to my parent's house, but i will work something out once I get my own apartment.
I insist that you and he go to counseling, and I will go as long as i am home, and not traveling, but I will not engage in just taking your problems away because you don't like the results of your parenting. If you would prioritize the modeling of proper self responsibility in your house, then I could work with you.

good luck, you need it.

[/color]

she refuses to listen to me ever, and gets pissed off if i ever criticise her, and even if i state that I do something differently (which works better) she takes taht as criticism from me, the narcissistic B!thc that she is. . .

wiftty

Looks like you already made some plans for yourself&Co for Xmas?
Or it's just what you wrote to her?
Or both?
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

What you wrote to her is OK
Even if you wrote worse things about her, it'd be OK too...

But...


But have to engage in taking your son's problems away...
Otherwise, the son has nobody else to teach him and help him solve those problems... well, there is always 'the street'...


You have to work with her regardless.
Unfortunately.

Unless you give up your son like a 'broken toy' you don't want to fix because you didn't break it.
I don't believe you mean so...?

Wiftty- Now that you got that out of your system, what response would best serve your son? I totally agree with everything you said, but it was more of a vent than anything constructive (IMHO). I think using this as an opportunity for counseling or similar things would definitely be advantageous to you, your son, and your ex.

If you already said those things, how did she respond? If you haven't said those things, I would modify them to be less finger pointing (which doesn't get you anywhere, really) and more action-oriented.

What kind of time do you spend with your son now?

Why not take this as the opportunity that it is -- to take custody of your son and give him the foundation he needs?

I feel for ya wiffy - I remember how you agonized over her parenting skills while the divorce/custody was being done.

I'm kind of in the same boat. My ex had custody of our daughter during the week from the age of 6 to 11 after a four year custody battle and then he neglected her - using his parents to raise her while he dated.

It damages a child to be neglected like that. And he is selfish. A little more self aware now than he was, but still pretty bad.

She grew up jealous that her siblings lived with me and she didn't.

She is 17 now and neither of us want her in our house. She has destroyed her bedroom(s). Takes off for entire weekends to hang out with and do drugs with her friends and sleep with her boyfriend.

Thank you for this post. I lived with a NPD for 17 years, yes 17 years I will never get back! I gave and gave until there was nothing left to give. She suck me dry! I didn’t know anything about NPD. Only after she left did I started learning about this type of personality disorder. I know I am a fool! But I try and then try again to get us into counseling. Sure she would go but only for a few times and then would just say "if you want to go, then just go by yourself"! It was like she didn’t care about what would happen to our relationship and children. Of all the personality disorders, I hate this one the most! My heart go out to you! Here is something I have learned for my studies on NPD, some bedtime reading! Not sure if I agree with you about alex. It might be better for him if you take him, but only if you will keep him! Not allowing him to return to his NPD mother!



God, these people just keep destroying lifes! I hate these people!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Yes: Belonging2Myself. it's sad. sound like my ex's daughter, Her ex got custody over her children (she was found to be an unfit mother herself) And he was a drug user. Anyway to make a long story short, her daughter turn to drugs, unsafe sex (had a train done on her when she was drunk) Had bi-sexual relationships and the list gone on and on! But my ex felt no empathy for her children, narcissists lack empathy for anyone. Sad, but true!

Sag06, yes...
and your story is too sad too...


Poor poor girl... with such *(&(^)%#$$ parents... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

OK, time for me to stop here...
(Self-censure... and luck of proper words to describe my feelings torward such parents... I dont' have enough ugly and rude words for that in my vocabulary...)

Wiffty,
I could change the pronouns and send this to my X.

Do what you can to help your child, in his best interest.
My kids are in counseling specifically for the FOO issues, and the FOO issues that we as parents brought into the M.

I feel for Wiffty because I had my daughter in counseling with a really good therapist for five years. I hope that someday all of that will sink in. Right now she is caught up in what she wants to do, and like Wiffty's wife, my daughter's father doesn't support my efforts. When I wanted to isolate her from her bad friends he refused to cut off her cell phone because he felt it was the one way he could keep track of her. (Rather than making her responsible for reporting in to avoid trouble.)

With my daughter I've concluded that she has either a personality or mental disorder such as Biolar D or NPD or borderline.

It could be that wiffty's children are developing a personality disorder from dealing with the ex. Which is why i didn't want my daughter in the house. Repeated exposure to abusive behavior is what develops personality disorders and i didn't want my other children to continue to be exposed to her abuse.

It's a terrible situation to be in when one's children do something radical, ugly, and destructive to everyone around them. I'm sure that wiffty fears what his son would put his parent's through if the son came over.

V.

I know, someday are better for me then others. I just don't understand how a parent can treat Their children like this and then expect anything else other then what they get from them. It just blow my mind and kills my heart! My ex cried to me "why don't my children want to talk with me!" All I could say was "I don't know, maybe they need time and I need time". My children told her they didn't want to talk with her on the phone, she told me that "I don't have to talk with you (me) anymore.So she wasn't calling me! So what did she do! Called and Called and then Called again! We wouldn't Answer the phone so what did she do then, let it ring and ring and ring! My little one asked me "Dad how many times did she let it ring?", "not sure son, I lost count!" It got to the point that I had to change my home phone number to stop it! But about changing my home phone there was another issue that happen as well. I tried, I tried so hard to work with her! But it was her way or the highway. Well, I taking the highway!

I am so tried of venting, wish I could just STOP!

I want my children (ages 12 and 15) to go to counseling but they are fighting me on this issue and I am so tried! I will wait until I see a red flag (bad behavioral) then They will go! Being a single parent can be a B*T*H some times.

Sag06, so they call the shots? Wait till you see the red flag and you may be seeing red or blue lights flashing at your door.

No cinderella, you misunderstood, we as parents (do you have children?) must validate them! Listen to them. And try to understand them. If that mean going to their level (of understanding, reasoning and what is important to them) as an responsible adult that we should be able to do. In this way becoming a child yourself. This is called empathy; basically putting yourself in another person state of emotional and cognition way of thinking. Children are not adults, they are children and we can’t expect them to behave like adults. Pushing an issue can and will do more harm then good. When a child makes a mistake then we as parents can go back and ask them “why do you think that happen the way it did?“ In short a mistake becomes a opportunity to discuss other issues. Red flags or blue lights is not the issue, it’s a statement, but thank you for your input. SAG06

I would like to know what your "response" will be for alex. Sorry didn't mean to take over your post. But I know what it's like to live with someone with NPD. Can you give us an update on this issue?

Lost first reply,

I had several great conversations with son recently, he has moved into abstract and conceptual thought in school, and has just figured out stuff that took me 10 years more to figure out, like how a great players son failed to become more than an average player, because of how his father, who coaches my son, coaches not to win, but to practice returning the ball. Its ecstatic to me what he has morphed into in school, all of a sudden, brain is in overdrive with possibilities and analysis.

X can't relate or discuss at that level. she can listen and agree, that's it. son got a great exam grade on a very hard course, an A- in expostitory writing. . . waiting on AP Physics exam grades, while X's prize daughter is barely passing. . . LOL!

I did not send this to anyone. . . it was just a vent. . .

my response will be, something muted as, "you and he need to go to counseling to figure out parents and relationships"

I will take him when I can, when i get a place where I can have him sleep over.

He finally figured out why I would say certain mantras while coaching. . . he gets it!

wiftty

mantra (n.) A sacred verbal formula repeated in prayer, meditation, or incantation, such as an invocation of a god, a magic spell, or a syllable or portion of scripture containing mystical potentialities.



Interesting; she is a teacher (English) and you are a coach, correct! What grade level (unless of course you coach professional players) do you coach, and what grade level does she teach english?

Hey wiffty,

I'm glad to see you didn't send that letter to your ex. My first reaction to it was negative. Your were clearly angry, understandable, & you were trying to teach, to show your ex the error of her ways. Even if every bit of it is true I doubt you'd get the response you're looking for, part of which is to get your ex & your son into counseling together. Just the fact the suggestion came from you would likely be enough to get her back up, but coupled with the anger? I can't imagine she'd be motivated to act in a positive way.

My next thought was do what's best for your son. Forget the ex & her relationship with him, you have no control over that. Use this opportunity to develop a closer relationship with him. Show him you're the strong, dependable parent who will always care for him & love him.

wiffty --
your son sounds like a great kid -- what kind of problems is your X experiencing?

it certainly seems like you and he connect on a level she can't achieve.