Jim and everyone else,

Thanks for your posts. You are the only people that I know who can relate to me and my sitch.

I think my wife has had it too nice for so long that she takes her life style for granted. At her job she has to work 4 days a month and can chose to work them when she wants to and she can add any more days she wishes. How is that for a job??? I work full time and she is with the kids on her days off. Her and the kids both love the time spent together. If there is something my wife likes and wants to buy we will talk it over and get it if we want to. Money is not growing on trees, but we do okay. We chose to have time with our kids over making more money by wife working more.

Here is what I'm afraid of - that by the time she comes around to helping with this M I'll have lost all love for her and will have moved on.

Just my thoughts,
maybe2late

M2L,

consider yourself lucky that she wants to do things with you, my WW doesn't want to have anything to do with me other than things have to do with the kids. By her doing things with you (and with the kids) may mean she's working it, slow but she's trying. This may not be your speed, but it may be hers. I would not force the M issue myself, of course I'm a lot newer at this than you.

My WH had said the same things ... and things were very nasty and hopeless between us not too long ago.

I got him to talk to SH by asking him to help ME understand and heal and get through this. Basically, focused on please do this to help me as opposed to it being MC.

In that first call, SH got my WH to admit that it might be possible to fix things, we just didn't know how. And wouldn't it be the ideal to be in love with your spouse and have a great happy, marriage?

It was all pretty low-pressure and logical, even for my WH, who at the time had nothing but contempt for me. If your WW is saying that she'd "give her right arm" to be in love with you again, that's a much better starting point than we were at!

I give SH a lot of credit, becasue things are really starting to improve for us. Very slowly, but they are getting there. My WH is even doing homework with me and we're communicating, I've even heard a few ILY's thrown in recently.

So try the "please do this to help me" approach for getting your WW to talk to SH. I think you have a good place to start, and he is good at getting those doors open.

-AmI.

Just a reminder - about 4 weeks ago I did move out for 5 days. Each day my wife asked me to come over for dinner or to play with the kids. Sat came and I planned not to go over to my house when my wife called to ask when I was coming to play with the kids. I went home that morning and told her that I'm staying here from now on and not going back to the place I was staying. She never said a word about it. Plan B would be hard with not seeing the kids all the time.

M2L

You know AmI,

I will keep that in my back pocket for now. Maybe when the time comes that she wants me out before I agree I ask her to do this for me (phone Steve).

M2L,

I'm sure others have already said this, but "Do not move out under any circumstance". Let her move if she wants to.

I have another question:

I have read here that sometimes it takes as much time for the WS to recover and come out of the fog as the A lasted. My ww's case about a year - little less.

Could this be the case? I ask because my wife does show guilt and remorse. She told me a few days ago "I bet you want to shoot me" and "I brought all of this sadness into our lives." I know I'm asking a question that no one knows the answer to.

Let me add that yes I'm in Plan A, but I have been detached some and that helps me a little.

thanks
M2L

It has been said that it could take 2x to 3x longer than the affair lasted...once NC is permanent. Recovery is the HARDEST part of all of this.

Also, ditto what was said above...DO NOT MOVE OUT!!

Hey M@ just checking on you.

Remember what some FWW said to us, Feelings are temporary. Commitment on the other hand is what you make of it.It shows yours character.

Dont make it easier for your WW to exit(if that is how she feels today).

You continue being the rock! Dont you dare move buddy!

i am betting all on YOUR INTEGRITY.

For your kids sake. You fight for what is right. If you want to rest........rest. But Dont you dare move out.

Never LET it be said by your kids that "Daddy walked out on us because he couldn't hack it..."

You are alot stronger than you think.........trust God.

Go to God.....HE has always been there.

Praying for you.

NC007.

Luv from Jamaica.

Thanks buddy,

I guess some days are easy because we don't talk about us or the EA. I don't ask because I guess I know the answers before my wife gives them to me.

Then some days are hard like last night. I asked her about SF and she said that the thought of it with me makes her sick. Well my taker peaked his head out and told her that I can't go on like this forever and she agreed. That is what lead up to todays post.

How could you want to hug someone so much that you can kill them? I feel both today.

Just a down day and I feel bad about posting it here to all of you. I have read enough to know most of this stuff.

Thanks agian NC,
M2L

Here is a suggestion. Don't talk about SF at all. Try and make SF happen. Talking about SF will only make SF more unlikely. Let's put it this way. Before you had SF for the first time with your wife, did you ask her, "what date are we going to have SF on?" No. Just keep plugging. Play the romantic role. Take her out on a nice getaway weekend, go out have a good time, try and give her a massage, have a bottle of champagne. Keep trying. Don't push it, but certainly don't give up. Once it happens the first time, things will snowball downhill. Just keep being romantic, and eventually she will break down.

Thanks for idea Jim, but we went away last week for two nights - nothing. We did do it a few days ago - she said she needed something and it has been awhile. I thought I could build on that - not.

M2L

Sounds like M2L's taker has made an appearance. You just got some a few nights ago. Don't go looking a gift horse in the mouth. You aren't going to go from no SF to 4 times a week. Talking about SF will only make her more reluctant to have SF with you in the future. Don't go into those getaways with expectations. Just keep trying. Here's a suggestion. Go to your bookstore and read up on different techniques and stuff. Next time you get called in to pinch hit, try and knock one out of the park. Wow her with your new found skills. Take what you can get for now and keep your taker at bay. When it comes to SF, make sure your giver is in full control.

M2L,

I'm beginning to think that I may be lucky that my WW just went ahead and filed the divorce herself. Granted, I'm in a very different situation as we don't have kids. I can't imagine what this whole process would be like when you have kids to consider as well. I commend you for how strong you have been.

I have no words of wisdom for you. You were there for me, and I just wanted to let you know that I am praying for you and your family.

Scotty

Jim - point taken about being greedy and yes ww gets as much as she gives. ahem! New ways - good idea!


Scotty - how have you been? Yes it is very hard with kids. About a month ago I moved out for 5 days (all I could stand away from them). When I did this my 5 year old son told me "daddy without you I don't have a life, you are my life." That still hurts and sometings I will never forget. Thanks for the words though.

M2L

MayBe,

You need to decide if you can live without her. I think you need to pull back some. Be kind, be civil, but be busy with the kids, with your work, and with activities that YOU enjoy.

Take the kids with you to do things, come back laughing, smile and be kind, but leave it at that.

She may have no feelings for you, but she is attached somehow. If she truly wanted out, she could get out and very likely end up with the house, the kids, and good chunk of your money. You need to see a lawyer and discuss your options. Then you need to call the Harley's and get a plan. If I recall correctly Steve H. wants to talk with your W. Set it up for YOURSELF. Make sure she knows this is so he can HELP YOU.

After all YOU are the one that needs help right? You have been betrayed. You have a W that does not love you. You have a W that doesn't want to live in a loveless marriage, but refuses to provide any love or even kindness. Doesn't that qualify for needing help? I think so and if you presented it to her in that fashion she just might talk with Steve Harley.

Don't worry about making her mad. You WANT her mad. You see any emotion is better than in withdrawal which is where she is right now.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Hi M2L,

Before I reply to your quote above, I wonder if you could reply to what JL wrote to you above?

W/ regard to what you wrote on NC's thread...

She doesn't feel love for you b/c she's not putting in the effort to.

I know she thinks she is trying to....but she really isn't.

Why doesn't she want to go to IC or MC?

Why doesn't she try having more SF w/ you?

W/o making a true effort, it'll take a LONG time before she gains her feelings back for you.

What did YOU think of the conversation?

~ Marsh

PS: I had an EA.

I felt ZIP for my BH.

I DID NOT want to have SF w/ him, but I made myself do it in order to bring back those feelings for him. We even changed the way we did it...for some reason, I prefer to initiate it and be the agresssor now. I didn't like him coming to me, which worked out good for both of us b/c he actually perfers it this way too. He still gets to let me know when he wants to, it's just that he has to let me start it and get it all going first.

I went to IC, I've been reading and disecting all of my thoughts and feelings trying to gain an inderstanding about who I am. And why I did what I did.

It takes WORK! Alot of it.

I started asking for things, stopped DJing, started making more time for the two of us together...

I NOW feel lots and lots of love for him.

It takes commitment.

As far as I can see, your WW hasn't REALLY given this a go yet.

Has she read any of the books written by Dr. Harley?

~ Marsh

Thanks Marsh for looking up my post.

Yes - I am starting to feel like I could live without her. Starting to.

My wife feels like that talking to Steve or a MC will not help her change her feelings for me. My wife has told me many times that she has lost the loving feelings a few years ago and that the EA is what keep her in our M that last year.

The EA started out as friends / co-workers. After the EA ended OM went to IC and the IC told him that he is the victim and his wife is the abuser. This was told through a friend who still works with the OM. This friend knows what happened (EA) and has worked to help stop it and to keep the two apart. My wife told me this weekend that she feels that she would like to leave a message for om telling him not to give up with IC and that they are done so don't hold out hope for them to get back together. My wife said that she knows she would not call IF she thinks it would lead to any emotions again. I told her that this is one of my boundaries and that I understand she wants to help him on a human to human level, but that it would only add to my hurt. I used a lot of I statements. When we were done talking she said that she would not call him and doesn't want me to feel betrayed agian. This is why she told me about her feelings to start with. We ended the talk with her saying - I hope this doesn't bring you down for the day. We had family over in the evening so I didn't let it stop me from having fun and giving my wife a little smile whenever she looked my way.

This is the point where she told me that maybe I'm not seeing her changes and what she has done. I told her that yes I do see some things, but much more will be needed and that I won't live like this forever.

Steve H has asked me to try to get my wife on the line with him, but if she doesn't want to then don't push it. His words "the way you are going now will take longer to achive your goal." So yes you and he are saying the same thing here.

Marsh, my wife has said many of the WS babble "he is so easy to talk to, we love each other, maybe we both M the wrong people." this was right after d-day. Now she doesn't want him in her life she just wants him to be in a happy M with his wife. She thinks if this doesn't happen then he will always keep thinking there is a chance for them to get back together. I have talked about a NC letter and she tells me that they already have NC so why bother.

Like JL said - if it was so bad with me and she wanted out then she would go. She could afford to IF she wanted.

How long was your EA Marsh?


thanks
M2L

Good for you!



This shows that she not only cares about your feelings, but that she respects you as well.



You're doing everything right!



How about asking her to talk to him as a Christmas present to you?

Tell her you need her help in dealing w/ things better.



Exactly! She chooses you and your marriage every day she stays w/ you.

Her feelings are all over the place, and she questions them, but she is still choosing you....every day. Same as you are for her.


Six months.


~ Marsh

JL wrote:

You need to decide if you can live without her. I think you need to pull back some. Be kind, be civil, but be busy with the kids, with your work, and with activities that YOU enjoy.

Take the kids with you to do things, come back laughing, smile and be kind, but leave it at that.

ME:

I told the kids (5,2) this AM that when daddy gets home from work the three of us will go to the store and get mommies present from them. My wife heard this and suggested that we all go. We can take the kids to see Santa and then daddy and the kids can slip off to a store or two to get mommies gifts. After that we can drive around to see lights and then to eat.

So I was planning to go with the kids and then my wife wants to go too. This is happening all the time. She doesn't act removed or depressed, she acts like a mother/wife when it comes to family things.

I told her this weekend that we sure have done a lot of Christmas things this year so far. It has been a lot!! She said that that is what she wanted and was happy for it turning out that way.

M2L

edited to add the Family Commitment is #2 on her EN list.