PodPerson - OK, here goes on the Tantra 101. (I'm starting to realize there are a lot of people on MBF who have put a LOT of thought into the whole subject of satisfying your partner and yourself together!)<P>Tantra is the yoga of sex. The basic idea is to practice yoga together with your lover, discovering your sexuality together. Or you can practice it alone and discover your own sexuality. If you practice tantra with your lover (who, hopefully, is also your spouse), then, ultimately, you can learn and practice yogic postures which are also forms of intercourse. Just to give you an idea, tantric masters sometimes will hold a position of intercourse for hours, even days. This is without coming, or at least without ejaculation on the man's part (he's learned to have an internal orgasm - as many as he wants, just like a woman - without "spending his seed.") Of course, this is the classical Eastern form of tantra. In the west, it's been adapted to help couples just get in touch with each other's sexuality and also, really, to put the romance back into a relationship by stressing the discovery of the divinity in your lover/spouse. In Indian tantra (there is also a Tibetan Buddhist form), the woman becomes the goddess Shakti and the man the god Shiva. In tantric ritual, you worship each other as these divinities through lovemaking. Well, this IS getting a bit BS-ey. I think many Christians might have problems with using Hindu divinities as roles. There is a native Western form of tantra (developed in Italy, I think) called carezza (meaning "caress"). But I don't know much about it, except that, from descriptions, it seems similar to tantra and maybe more amenable to the Christian perspective on sex. <P>Some good books (ones I could find in my mess of a library right at hand) on tantra are:<P><I>Tantric Yoga</I> by Gavin and Yvonne Frost<P><I>Tantra, the Yoga of Sex</I> by Omar Garrison<P>(This is the "golden oldie" of tantra books - don't know if it's still in print!)<P><I>Sexual Secrets</I> by Ajik Douglas and Penny Slinger<P>(This is a goodie, with lots of illustrations! Doesn't confine itself strictly to tantra, but lots of that too!)<P><I>The Art of Sexual Ecstasy</I> by Margo Anand<P>(M.A. is THE Western guru of tantra, giving many workshops around the country. I took one with two of her students and, as we used to say, it blew my mind - other parts of me too!)<P>And, of course, there's that old standby <I>The Joy of Sex</I> which is really based on tantric principles, though it's not specifically tantric.<P>Well wishes for an erotic meltdown with your H,<P>--Wex<P><BR>

PodPerson:<P>Sorry I missed your thread earlier. This is one that I would VERY much like to respond to. My W is like you: only orgasms are through oral sex. Perhaps your H is trying to deal with the psychological aspect of knowing that he can't bring you to orgasm "the old-fashioned way." I know this was an issue for me. I couldn't understand why my W couldn't have orgasms with me during intercourse. It just seemed unnatural.<P>Then, I read some information and discovered that MANY women don't have orgasms with intercourse. It's really quite common. More so than I thought, anyway.<P>What's my point? My point is that I was like your H. I didn't like doing it cuz it took too long, I was frustrated by her inability to have the big "O" the way I thought she SHOULD have it.<P>I guess what I'm saying is give your H a little time. I REALLY didn't want to do it after the affair. The thought of doing that when another guy had "invaded" my territory literally made me physically ill.<P>But, I got over it. Your H will too. He'll come to realize that he's being TOTALLY mental. Now, I look FORWARD to doing it for her. She often has to tell me NO! <P>But seriously, it's a mindset. Give him some more time to heal from the shock of the affair. If he REALLY loves you and wants you to stick around, he'll come around eventually. I'm sure of it.<P>--------<P>Paul:<P>Your posts were very thought-provoking. I enjoyed reading your dialogue with K. Believe me, I think I understand where you're coming from. I really connected with your feelings on this issue.<P>I would like to point out, however, that a healthy sex life is OFTEN essential to our marriages. What some define as healthy may be different from what OTHERS call it. However, PodPerson's frustrations are normal. They don't justify an affair, mind you, but I have a certain amount of compassion for people with frustrating sex lives. My W and I are trying to deal with a rather uncommon sexual problem and it's tested our relationship GREATLY.<P>I certainly don't mean to chastise, as I greatly valued your response. Just reminding all to remember ALL the components that make up a marriage. It's not JUST about the promises you make during your vows. You have to HONOR those promises and WORK to keep the relationship going. Sometimes that means satisfying your partner's sexual needs even if you're not really in the mood for it.! <P>Have a great evening, All!<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

Wex,<P>Thanks for the explanation. I had a feeling it had to do with poses and stuff. I saw a movie on Showtime one time called the "Karma Sutra" or something like that. If you knew my husband, you'd chuckle at the thought of him doing anything remotely like yoga. I'm talking a beer and lazy boy kinda guy here. If I even mentioned the word yoga to him, he would freak! I took a yoga class at the Y one time and he said it was a cult! Does the word "neanderthal" come to mind? <P>Also, the idea of him "worshipping" me is incomprehendible. This is a man who thinks opening a door for me is a big thing. But I will try to keep an open mind.<P>Lonestar, thanks for your response on this post. I hate the word "time" because I think he has had plenty of time already to get himself together. It would be different if this is something that had just come up since he found out about my affair. This is the way he's been for years. Now as he says, this is "crunch time". How much more of a wake up call does he need? Anyway, we haven't done "it" yet since all this, so maybe he will pleasantly surprise me. He comes home early today so we can go to counseling this afternoon, so we will have lots to talk about.<P>Who knows, maybe tonight we will both be chanting "ooooooohm" LOL

Pod Per, If he doesn't like the Tantric Sex, go for the ancient western Tantrum Sex: "I want it now!, now!, now!, now!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH<P>I love it! Good one, fighter!<BR>

PodPer - Another thought on the subject. You can use tantric techniques without telling him what they are. Just say you want to try such-and-such without telling him where you got the idea. Some more ideas:<P>1) Experiment with different positions. Woman on top gives you more control and may help you find the Big O during intercourse. Also, the ANGLE at which he enters you makes a big difference, I've found. In the good old days when my W and I had a decent (INdecent, really!) sex life, I helped her come during intercourse by adjusting the angle so that the tip of my penis rubbed along the front of her vagina and nailed her G spot. (The G spot is really the key to orgasm during intercourse, which is a hoot.) Or try the rear-entry position ("doggy style") which leaves you free to stimulate your clitoris (either you or he can do this) during intercourse.<P>2) Agree with people who advise getting a vibrator. There's nothing wrong with having sex with yourself. Even lots of sex with yourself. If you find yourself not having an O during sex with your H, then bring yourself to climax afterwards. (Both my W and I have done this, sometimes together.)<P>3) Do read up on this stuff. It can give you a lot of ideas about things to try.<P>Boy, this is one of those subjects that I can really get carried away writing about! BTW, your description of your H as a "beer and lazy boy type man" gave me LOL. I know what you mean, but think there's still hope!<P>--Wex

Sex is definitely a touchy subject. I consider myself to be pretty sexually liberal, but I'm sure there are those out there that would see my tastes as rather "vanilla". The point is that sex is one of the most emotional and personal topics you can probably discuss. My personal attitude is live and let live; whatever floats your boat. If someone likes to give oral sex, great. If they don't (i.e., if they find it repulsive for some reason), that's great too. That goes for any type of sexual stimulation; some people like anal sex, most don't. Some people like to play with S&M, most don't. The examples are too numerous to list. The point is, does that mean we should judge one group or the other? Just because one group is the minority, does it make the other group "right" in their opinion of what is acceptable in sex and what isn't?<P>I guess what I am getting at is that sexual tastes are as varied as personalities, and most of the time very complex. To find a partner that enjoys all of the things you do sexually and wants nothing that you don't enjoy is probably pretty rare. Unfortunately, since sex is also so personal there is little hope to change someone's mind if they don't like what you like; it's just the way they are. It just won't work to try to get someone to do something they just don't enjoy (it's like eating some food that you can't stand, I guess). You'll end up feeling bad because you know your partner is not enjoying themself and it just gets to be a bad scene. Trust me, I've been there, done that. At the same time, to ask you to give up something that you really enjoy or that is very fulfilling to you is not good either.<P>So, where does that leave the couple that can't agree on certain sexual activities? Good question. I guess if what they can't agree upon is not a show-stopper, they can be alright; the Policy of Joint Agreement will lead them to other things they can do in bed. But if one person really needs or wants something to feel fulfilled and the partner cannot give it, what do they do? If sex is the person's most important emotional need, and a certain type of sex is the only way to fill that need, I don't see much hope in the marriage. I guess the partner could make an effort to get to like what the other needs, but that is a doubtful proposition, especially if you are talking about something way out of the main stream like S&M. If someone doesn't enjoy receiving pain, do you really think you could change their mind? Or if someone wanted to be dominated, but you couldn't bear to hurt them, could you change your attitude? But then again if the partner can't get to like it, I doubt they could survive as a couple. Anybody have thoughts on this?

Now that was a good post Slade.

I have never had an orgasm either during sex. Even with the OM or any previos sexual experience's before marriage. <BR>I read a book back in June call "Freedom from Bondage" by Dr. Neil Anderson. He explains the lack of orgasm during sex as an inability to trust your partner.<BR>Great book he goes into the matter more but i have to say that is the reason for me.

Gosh...<BR>I knew sooner or later I would be pulled into this thread! :0)<BR>I have not posted before because with so many responses it was highly likely that someone else would express my views in a better way than I probably would. <P>But having read Slade's response I feel compelled to put my two cents in.<P>I really feel for your delima Pod, but the more I think on it the more I think the changes necessary should come from you. Slade is right, you cannot expect your H to change his approach or attitudes. You have no control over his actions or attitudes as real changes need to come from within if they are to last. But you do have control over your actions. Work on extending foreplay from your side of the sheets. Spend more time kissing and petting him, and his reactions should follow suit. Learn to have Orgasms on your own before or after you have an encounter with him. Nobody can do it better than you can for yourself. Trust me on this. Get a vibrator if you don't already have one and satisfy the need for the O that way, then during love play with the H you can relax and just have fun, knowing you can finish any unfinished business later for your self. (or after a while, you may feel comfortable letting him play with the vibrator on you or watch you do it!) I once tied my H to a chair and made him watch......Oops didn't mean to go there!!hehe<P>It is really funny that you are in this position. For years I was embarrassed by Oral activities, thought it was a dirty thing to do or let be done, and could not let myself relax enough to allow it to happen often, but guess what, my attitudes have changed, not because my H made me or wanted me to, but because I wanted to change. I find it more than tolerable now, most of the time and know my H really likes it, so that makes it all that much more fun. I do things for him because I love him, not because what I do or don't do will make him love me anymore than he does already. I recognize that I cannot make him feel anything. I have control over only my own actions and attitudes.<BR> There is still hope for your H to change too, but don't expect it and don't worry so much about what he can give you.....concentrate rather on what you can give him, how you can express loving feelings toward him in bed, and I promise the addage "what goes around, comes around," will prove to be true in the positive sense, too. When you relax about it all, you may be surprised in more ways than you can imagine!<P>Good Luck and please let us all know WHAT Happens! HEHEHE<BR>

What Pilot's wife speaks about in her last post is an important distinction: the difference between something we may be uncomfortable or embarrassed about versus something we may be repulsed by. <P>I agree that often times it takes a deep level of intimacy and trust to feel comfortable with your spouse, and some people haven't taken the time to get there. Talking about our sexual fantasies and desires, even to our spouse, is a very scary proposition because you are basically laying your defenseless inner self on the table for your spouse to see. If they don't have the same enthusiasm for something near and dear to your heart it can be crushing; if they openly ridicule you or tell you you are a pervert or disgusting it can be a severe blow to your ego and your love towards them, bankrupting your love bank in a hurry. I guess that is why it's so important to be non-judgmental, especially in the area of sexual tastes. That's also why good communication and trust are musts.<P>Sorry, I sort of got off the subject of what I wanted to post…<P>I wanted to talk about the difference between feeling uncomfortable or shy or embarrassed versus just not liking something, and I'll try to explain with two real-life examples: <P>1) My wife was very shy with me for a long time and was uncomfortable exploring oral sex on her, even though I was more than willing and often tried; she would just refuse because she wasn't comfortable with the whole idea even though it interested her. Eventually we worked through her "embarrassment" (for lack of a better word) and she now can enjoy it without her previous hang-ups. Her case was one of being uncomfortable or unsure and needing time, patience, and love to bring her to a level of certainty about the activity. <P>2) I had a very close friend who came to me with a tough problem. He really enjoyed having anal sex and had tried it once with his wife. She was willing to give it a go, but for whatever reasons after they tried it once she decided she never wanted to do it again. Maybe they did it wrong and it hurt her, maybe she was just repulsed by the thought of it after she did it. Whatever the reason, she now resists vehemently and says she will never do it again even after numerous discussions, and it's been over two years so the situation looks pretty set. For my friend this is a big blow because it is something he feels he needs (and who am I to say he doesn't?), so he's doing a lot of soul searching. He doesn't want to be unfaithful, but he doesn't think he can live the rest of his *life* without a sexual activity that is so important to him. <P>I guess the point I am trying to make is be sure if your sex problem falls into category one or category two above. Only through open, honest communication and patience will you probably find out the truth, especially since often someone will say they really don't like something when they aren't sure, just so they won't feel pressured until they have made up their mind. Few people can just sit there and openly talk about what they want in sex; as I tried to explain above there is a lot of fear involved because you are so vulnerable. But once you feel you are sure of the reason for your spouse's reluctance to do certain things, it will help you make a decision on what to do next.<P>So, by all means try to get your husband to talk about the subject. Try over and over again. Try to get to his true feelings and see why he is reluctant - it could be something you can fix (maybe he's afraid he's no good, maybe he'd like you to shave down there, maybe he just wants to make sure you are clean). If talking fails, use persuasion and hints with all of your feminine charms. Something, somewhere should work if you are persistent and the problem really isn't that he just doesn't like it.<P>Good luck! <BR>

Well... this one is so familure to me, my W said this is one of the reasons she had an affair because i was unable to stimulate her vaginally, Although we did experiment with vibrators during intercourse and the results were climactic, also she allowed me to shave her pubic area to near nothing and this act alone was highly stimulating and the resulting sex afterwards was some of the best, a little kinkyness sometimes sweetens the experience and also adds a little excitement, good luck hopefully your H will join the ranks of Sir lickalottapuss.

Frankly, I think all this makes a good case for premarital sex, even sex for quite a while before marriage. I think there are still lots of people who, for for religious or whatever reasons, get married without ever having made love, with each other anyway. THEN you discover the sexual hang-ups. That just doesn't work for me. My W and I were sexually intimate for well over a year before we got married and I'm glad we were (of course, this was the 2nd marriage for both of us). We discovered that we were both pretty uninhibited and could have a lot of sheer fun around sex. I think if that hadn't been the case, we would both have thougt twice about continuing the relationship.<P>Have to disagree with unforgiven's book that it's always failure to trust your partner that results in failure to have orgasm during sex. I think it may also be connected with beliefs (whatever their source, but I suspect usually religious) that sex is somehow dirty. But you know what? I grew up in a church that though even dancing and movies were sinful (minister's W was a knockout, though!) I've learned, I can actually turn this old, ingrained sense of the sin of sex around so that it makes sex into a kind of forbidden fruit, and that makes it much more fun. Like the saying goes, "If you don't think sex is dirty, you're not doing it right."<P>I think the whole idea, whatever you do, really is to make a kind of game out of it. Example - I used to take the role of father-confessor and my W would take the role of Catholic schoolgirl (which she did use to be - she's come a long ways!) and she would confess all the naughty things she'd done with "the boys." Games like this can be a real hoot, I can tell you.<P>Also apologize if I got too explicit back up there. It did seem like PodPer was looking for specific "tips and techniques" not general ideas.<P>--Wex

I have found that if my wife showers and or cleans up, the oral sex is much better for me<BR>try some toys, they can be fun, and not as much work for a mans tong, can you find your own g-spot, yes most of girls have if you look, show him how to find it, then watch the fun. peace

PodPer - Just had another one of my X-rated brainstorms. Play the dominator. Get a riding crop and leather outfit. Grind your 4-inch spike heel into his lazy submissive butt. ORDER him to perform like you want. Tell him things like, "You worthless swine! Now get down there and eat that [censored]! And don't come up for air till I give you permission!"<P>(Hey, it's just so crazy it might work!)<P>--Wex

Wex - I think you're fantasizing (not that fantasizing is a bad thing) . I think most guys would like to her their wife tell them that.