Good Morning E! I read the words and it sounded pretty good to me...it's better when I hear the song so I did a search and an listening to samples of their music as I type.

I really appreciate you sharing that...oh, there's the demo for that song...only the chorus but it's comforting...WOW!

Thank you for sharing it!

AmI- just knowing that you are around makes a world of difference to me...

Sometimes I wish I could go back and not know any better...it seems like it was easier... LOL

I'll be good today...E helped remind me where I need to be...and Thank GOD, my Sponsor is suppose to watch the kids tonight so I can go to a meeting...even if she can't I think that I really need to go to get centered...

I lost my balance and I've made a point to bring one of my Al-Anon books today to do some reading!

We all have bad days...we're going to have bad days...It's how we bounce back that matters...

I have a goal just for today and that's to recenter myself...get focused...

Thank you both! Hugs to you!

(((Rind)))

I'll be thinking of you today... hope it get's better.

Still

Oh, E...I found the whole song! WOW! Thank you SOOOO Much!

For everyone else who would like to listen:

http://www.blogmusik.net/

At the bottom, search for Voice of Truth and click on the first one!

Just responding from your last message on my thread.

I have a ton of other songs that I continuously listen to that inspire me in these times.

You found another one from Casting Crowns - Who Am I.

I also HIGHLY recommend Praise You in the Storm - There is not another song that I have heard that comes close to being about what we deal with as a WS (words are below), very powerful. Does Anybody Hear Her is another good one, really hits close to home taking a look at a WW. Just listen to it and mentally flip it and think of your WH.

I can post a lot more tonight when I have more time. What genre of music is your preference? I am a longtime listener to Christian Rock music and there are some good heavy songs and some good power ballads I can recommend as well. Also a lot of songs more in the vein of Casting Crowns - what I would call Christian Pop music

Best bet - get a Napster account or iTunes and download these so you can listen to them when you are down (and up as well).

Praise You In This Storm:

I was sure by now
That You would have reached down
And wiped our tears away
Stepped in and saved the day
But once again, I say “Amen”, and it’s still raining

As the thunder rolls
I barely hear Your whisper through the rain
“I’m with you”
And as You mercy falls
I raise my hands and praise the God who gives
And takes away

I’ll praise You in this storm
And I will life my hands
For You are who You are
No matter where I am
Every tear I’ve cried
You hold in Your hand
You never left my side
And though my heart is torn
I will praise You in this storm

I remember when
I stumbled in the wind
You heard my cry
You raised me up again
My strength is almost gone
How can I carry on
If I can’t find You

As the thunder rolls
I barely hear You whisper through the rain
“I’m with you”
And as Your mercy falls
I raise my hands and praise the God who gives
And takes away

I lift my eyes unto the hills
Where does my help come from?
My help comes from the Lord
The Maker of Heaven and Earth

Oh, just one more new one from the group Seventh Day Slumber - it's on the heavy side but the lyrics are great. I have several more from them I will direct you to.

You can hear this one on their myspace page:
http://www.myspace.com/7thdayslumber

Click the song title underneath the music player.

OK, I think I may start a separate thread on music now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Missing Pages:

On the outside all we see is clay
That hides the perfect light
But no one really knows the pain inside

I understand how much it hurts
To be the one who's never seen
The missing pages in a magazine

No one knows you anymore
You're lost inside the walls you've built
No one knows you anymore
A prison deep within your soul
There is One who sees it all
He'll give you life you've never dreamed
He can see the pain underneath your skin

It's hard to see you fading
Nothing that I do can bring you back
I pray to God that you don't fade away
Your addiction is a symptom of a lost and dying soul
Without Jesus there's no hope at all

There's so much more this is not the end
It's all in your hands don't throw it away
A beautiful life with so much to give
The image of God underneath your skin

The beauty of God underneath your skin

hmm.. multi-post condensation...



are you sure about that? did you look at all the sites?
"boob sites" doesnt neccessarily mean "only boobs are naked".


WHOA! I think you need to stop reading that book. 'cause that is way off the deep end, Rinder. How about, "when he said that, it hurt my feelings" ?

he may not have even meant it as hurtful, btw.


I dont think so. I think he is saying that he's not comfortable that you are being a hyppocrit in your religion, and he does not want his children being taught to be hippocrits too.

BTW: I think that the last two quotes I copied here, are subtle DJs from you.
You may have used the words "i feel", but I'm guessing you could just as easily and accurately replace them with "i think that ...".
[personally, I think that whenever a person can replace "i feel" with "I think" in a sentence, and still have it grammatically work the same, its a good indication they are probably DJing someone, but just using politically correct language]

You have no business making assumptions like, "he's trying to control you through the religion angle". Primarily because you dont have a "mind-o-graph" to read his motivations, but also 'cause you are most likely wrong about this specifically, in my opinion.

I think that is a great statement of truth to remember. I'm glad you remembered it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Sounds like you're calming down a bit now. that's good. hang in there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

techie...I haven't read any new books...I ordered one that I haven't got yet...it was the tone of voice and I even told him that I didn't understand what that was suppose to mean...

I knew I was DJing...I was just so mad at being wrote off...

It was well I have to get back to work, you go to bed...It was like OKay, I've had enough, end of conversation...

Thanks techie for pointing that stuff out...You're probably right about me being way off base with that first comment that you pointed out...

I don't know I just want to put yesterday behind me...

I have to say that E is really helping me today...step two...

I Think that would be a wonderful idea to start a music thread! I know that I would appreicate it!

OH, E...you are so wonderful...

I like them to...kinda like "Disturbed"...That's cool I like the beat!

I was checking out amazon.com but I think I will what you suggested instead...I have Itunes but I haven't figured out how to get it off of the program to send to my phone ot copy...I'm going to have to play around with the files...change the extension names...or something...

Just to clarify - "Disturbed" - is that these guys?

http://www.azlyrics.com/d/disturbed.html

or is that a song?

On iTunes - what kind of phone do you have?

Yeap, that's them! Down with the sickness!

LG CU500

I'm listening to Kutless, new to me...

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=22353346

OK, so you are like me and like the heavy stuff then.

You will like a lot, if not all, of the stuff from Kutless. They are great lyrically and musically.

All the lyrics are here:

www.kutless.com

A few key songs from them that will speak to you in your pain, turmoil, hurt, enager, etc:

Grace and Love (awesome)
Run
This Time
Let You In
Passion (recall the move the Passion of the Christ)
Smile
Promise of a Lifetime
Winds of Change
Mistakes
Push Me Away

I'll be back on tonight and start the music thread.

Finally something I can chime in on!!

I almost wore out DD's Casting Crowns CD listening to Praise You in the Storm .... great song that's helped me get my focus in the right place a LOT of times, especially when things were at their worst!

And it always reminded me of the lyric in one song (can't remember right now the actual song or artist -- Eph, you might know) about "sometimes He calms the storm, and other times He calms His child"....


Rin, I don't know about the verbally/emotionally abusive stuff, I'll leave that for the experts to comment on. Sorry I can't be more helpful.... Thinking about you, though!

-AmI.

Thanks E! I've never really listen to christain music before. I wanted to and brough Kirk Franklin's CD but didn't really enjoy the one I got. So, I'm very excited to be branching out.

AmI- Awesome, about the CD...I'm a newbie in this dept...

As far as the VA...I don't know much either..there were two quizzes last night by the lady who brought VA to light and I took both...on being abusive and the other on being abused...

I scored a 9, not really that bad...I do it without realizing it...but it was like a slap in the face...now on the other quiz, if you answered yes to two or more questions, yes, there's VA in your relationship...I did...

I just went in search of info b/c what I consider VA is not happening in my M...I am not put down or called names...I do understand that when you tell someone that what theything, feel, or believe is wrong, that IS VA...

Of course, I learned that here...as LA mentioned, forgetting...that is VA...there was a list and I was familiar with some of them...

Thing is I was thrown for a loop and got to thinking I cna't do anything about this...I can't change how he responses to me...so, I felt hopeless...my faith went right out of the window and I was angry b/c I thought/am thinking that I can't do anything about it...which remains to be seen...so, my meltdown was a result of basically looking into the future and not focusing on the present...

Also, looking into the past...starting with the dentist appt. thing...then, to how we have interacted with each other...I was overwhelmed last night and I have said before that I believe he treats me like a doll on a shelf...one on the things on the VA list was about how the S is more of a symbol...

I jumped the gun...and all the things that I try not to do on a daily basis, I did last night!

I'm over it and perosnally I don't feel that I have enough information at present...I hear and picture Frog in my head...shaking his head, thinking to himself...there she goes again self-diagnoses...I told her to go see an IC...

I remember Frog's other posts to me...

I know that for years...I have felt crazy and wrong for feeling the way I do, second guessing myself, thinking that I must have not heard what I thought I heard b/c I was told "I didn't say that, you are putting words in my mouth." The lack of intimacy b/c H doesn't share things with me...it's so easy to have a conversation on trucks, or work, or anything else but our relationship...

How do you hammer a person for wanting to have a R with God and then come back and remind them of things they are not suppose to eat? This is a man who hasn't stepped foot in a church except to attend a wedding in years...And he has that right...really he does...but don't try to tell me what I'm doing with my faith and you're not doing anything to teach your kids jack about faith, religion, God, Jesus...

Personally, I don't care what religion it is...the important thing to me is that they know that there is a God, Holy Spirit, Jesus, right and wrong, know how to pray, faith, be God fearing, learn about heaven and he00...

I could go on...I picked up the ball when F was five b/c I felt they needed to learn something rather than nothing...I was raised Catholic (and I can't really say raised...my mom and SD didn't attend church, my GP's taught and brought my to church until they moved out of the area)

So that's what they are learning...H, like I said is Baptist, and his parents are Moran (?)...

I felt it was my responsible to give them some foundation...all the people I know are Catholic in this area...what's a girl to do?

Sometimes I learn things from F when he comes home from religion class...we talk about it and if I don't agree with what's being taught, I tell him and let him know that it's up to him to determine what he believes...

And I'm talking about wheather to avoid caffine, or the little things that more organized ..the Pope says don't take birth control kind of thing...I really don't think that is a matter of being a hypocite...

Okay...LOL...so a little background and stuff on that topic! LMAO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There is some incredible Christian music out right now.

AmIOk - the song is Sometimes He Calms the Storm sung by Scott Krippayne.

You can hear a clip here:
http://www.scottkrippayne.com/audio/SometimesHeCalms.mp3

Heard another good one one the way to pick up the kids. I tell you, God was really speaking to me today through music.

Hold Fast by MercyMe:


To everyone who's hurting
To those who've had enough
To all the undeserving
That should cover all of us
Please do not let go
I promise there is hope

Hold fast
Help is on the way
Hold fast
He's come to save the day
What I've learned in my life
One thing greater than my strife
Is His grasp
So hold fast

Will this season ever pass?
Can we stop this ride?
Will we see the sun at last?
Or could this be our lot in life?
Please do not let go
I promise you there's hope

You may think you're all alone
And there's no way that anyone could know
What you're going through
But if you only hear one thing
Just understand that we are all the same
Searching for the truth
The truth of what we're soon to face
Unless someone comes to take our place
Is there anyone?
All we want is to be free
Free from our captivity, Lord

i disagree.
sounds like that book is unhealthy for a reasonable marriage. sounds like it could be renamed, "how to have a politically correct marriage"

(edit for clarity: sounds like you are agreeing with "feelings are never wrong". well, gee, there are plenty of people on here whose spouses are "feeling" that they are so in love with OP they just have to be with them now. So are you saying that's a feeling, so it isnt wrong?)

For goodness' sake, how can you take seriously a book that sounds like any time your husband tells you, "you're wrong", you get to go running down the street calling "help help I'm being abused!"

The book is "abusing" the word "abuse" !
I think that word should be reserved for SERIOUS DAMAGE to someone. Yes, i understand the concept of verbal abuse, and agree that there are some places it can be applied. eg: where someone repeatedly, directly, denegrates their spouse verbally, and directly undermines their self-esteem.

But a lot of times, its just a matter of people not being polite. There's a difference from being impolite/rude, and "abuse".

There's some whacky school system, where the teachers are never allowed to say to the students, "that's wrong". talk about being PC to the extreme!

Yes, there really is "right" and "wrong", and it is not always bad to say to someone, "you are wrong". Sometimes, people need to be told that!
(and sometimes, of course, there are arguments about just exactly who is wrong <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> but that doesnt make it "abuse", so call it out)

Being told "you are wrong" all the time, doesnt feel good. But if your husband really belives you are saying/doing something wrong frequently... that doesnt make it verbal abuse. that makes him a nagger, or overly picky.
Sure, you could pick back about the way he talks to you. and if it makes you feel bad, you probably should.
here's a thought, though;
Would it be more productive for you to focus more effort on the higher level issue of nagging, rather than focusing on "he's verbally abusing me"?

I think part of that, might be an extension of what you are already doing. eg: he says "you're doing that wrong".
you say, "well, it looks right to me. but if you dont like the way i'm doing it.. you do it yourself".

[/quote]

The religious bit is a trickier one. You're entitled to be as inconsistent in your personal beliefs as you like <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> but when it comes to his children, you need to respect his viewpoint just as much as you want him to respect yours.

he might be coming from a viewpoint of, "you're teaching our children to disrespect rules. "

if you encourage them to identify themselves as Catholic, yet also encourage them to ignore/pick-and-choose catholic rules to follow... I think that can be seen from his perspective as a very bad example for the children to follow.
"yes, be a law-abiding citizen! that's very important!
(except that you can steal from these folks, go tresspass over there, and....) "

from what you wrote, it kinda sounds like you want the children to be "Christian", but are taking advantage of your local catholic educational resources to do that.

If that is your viewpoint, you should make it clear to both your husband and children, and that might soothe tensions.

However, from your "I cant just make up my own religion" comment, it sounds like you may be staying Catholic out of loyalty, rather than religious conviction.

NOTE: I was raised catholic. I know all about the mindset there.
However, I also know that in the US.. no matter what your particular biblical interpretation, it is possible to find a church group that agrees with you, if you look hard enough. Heck, there are umpteen different Lutheran denominations alone, seems like <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Perhaps you should look into some.

I also like Stand Through the Rain. Superchick, I think. Lots of these that helped me a lot! I'm not a very deep music person, usually I only know what's on the radio -- whatever genre it is. So thank goodness for K-Love .... I'd have never heard most of this stuff. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


"I felt it was my responsible to give them some foundation...all the people I know are Catholic in this area...what's a girl to do?"

I'm glad that you are giving them a foundation. They will eventually make their own decisions.

Is your H saying there are parts of Catholocism that he doesn't agree with -- like the things you mentioned about birth control, things you're not supposed to eat and caffeine, etc. (I don't know anything about Catholocism, so I have no idea about those things)? Or is he saying that if you are Catholic, then you should abide by those things?

Maybe you can talk to him about it in terms of coming to some agreements on what the kids should be taught. It sounds like he has some opinions about it. Can this be a point where you guys figure out how to work through a conflict and agree instead of a battle?

That's the only suggestion I can make. I've found that recently, H and I do our best problem-solving and agreeing and working through conflicts together when it's related to the kids.


Hang in there.
-AmI.

Hi Guys, I'm just going to write in general and hopefully answer all of your questions...

The religion thing really isn't a problem with H and I...TBH, I think that it's really a matter of ignorance on both of our parts...and we're both trying to do the right thing...I can say this I would be committing FOO suicide if I went outside of my religion...and to be honest, the fact that I married outside of my religion, much less someone of another race...don't get me started...

H and I agree with you AmI, that's why it's not really that big of a deal because we do feel that they will make their our decisions regarding there religion...

When they get to visit H's FOO, they go to church with them, not I do have a problem with their religion but that is me...I feel that my opinion on they religion is my opinion which I chose to keep to myself...

First, I do not know enough about their religion... my opinion is based on the knowledge that I do have...Second, that is me children choice...I am grateful that they have the opportunity to be able to have other experiences...

Outside of what I have been taught, and the relgion classes that I took in college, I feel that I am ignorant, so I chose to stick with what I know...

H doesn't know enough about my religion either, he doesn't like mine b/c we sit, stand, kneel during mass...he wasn't raised that way...jokes that he doesn't go to church for exercises...this area is not traditional Catholics either...like you see on TV where they chant...

H over the yrs. has gone to church with me on a few occasions...I...LOL...have had the opportunity to go to his church once when we returned to his hometown...I don't think that he will ever bring me back...I was shocked, and we ended up leaving in the middle of the service...

My Great Grandmother was Baptist and when we would visit her I would sometimes go with her, MY grandmother HATES this...(her thinking, if you aren't CAtholic you're a sinner and you're goin to he((!)...Anyway, H's church was nothing like I had ever seen, I was very uncomfortable and the speaking in tongues and dancing down the isles...LOL..was to much for this sit, stand, kneel girl!

So, over the years H and I do have an understanding about the kids...a few kinks here and there...I said that I was having a VERY BAD NIGHT! I was ranting and raving...like Cajun said...BS has a fog all their own...I admit that I was dipping into that...

I wanted to post last night and had half wrote when H called and we got to talking...he asked me to update our virus programd and I was up till 1am doing that...

We talked off and on...seems like we're doing better with our bad days...it passed, we moved forward, no hard feelings...I'm actually really proud of us...LOL...we're growing up! LMAO

H got his bonus yesterday, so he's like a kid in a candy store...there's a few things that he's been wanting and has been waiting to do...He has been in great spirits since our episode Wed...

H is now supervising 13 OP...and admitts that it's a little difficult but is doing well....said that he has as many OP under him as his boss...

I've said it before and also to H, I'm very proud of him stepping up to the plate at work, he has in the past underestimated his ability and talent in himself...I think that this is good for him as well as us!

As for me, I'm still not sleeping well, as a MOF, I called H at 2 this morning to share the SF dream I had...this is not in my nature...I'll just say that you know the candy, Whoppers, malted milk balls, well, they were included in my dream...

So, H and I are laughing our a&&es off at two this morning about my dream...which I was telling him that this makes #4 in my lifetime...I was joking with him that on his way home he needed to stop at the store and pick up a paper and some malted milk balls...he asked what I was going to do with them, that I sure wasn't going to stick them in his ***...

I laughed so hard and said thanks for ruining my dream...now, I have a wonderful little image of rabbit pellets...yuck! I don't know if I'll ever look at that candy the same! LOL

On to other topics...LMAO...I'm going to kill L before he reaches five yrs. old...it must be the age for me b/c I couldn't stand F when he was that age...anyway, L's mouth is getting him in so much trouble...

H was sitting right there when this happened so he got to see what I'm complaining about with L all the time...

I told L to go eat a donut b/f we went to the sitter that he couldn't take it with him this morning...he turned around and told me that he would take a donut if he wanted too...after I got on him, he went to the table, sat down, and ate...

H asked me if he ever shut up and I said no...his mouth is what gets him in trouble...I told H that I'm going to have to take some drastic measures with this one b/c what I've been doing isn't working...

I can see it now, I'm going to kill this child before he turns 5 this June...(Of, course, I don't mean literally)

I have decided that I'm going to compare this age to the teenage yrs. and see what's worst for me!

Techie, I see the point that you are trying to make about abuse...but it IS abusive when you are told repeatedly that you are wrong for feeling a certain way...and like I said earlier, I haven't got the book yet...and I would recommend that you read up on VA...a simple search on the www...

Patricia Evans is one of the first to bring this abuse to light...and I'm not sure if you remember the DV that occurred during the last year when I was trying to get NC in place...

The VA and DV that I'm talking about happens usually when H is angry, is not getting his way b/c of my boundaries...it's a form of munipulation, guilt, control, humilation (once ot twice in front of people)...

I don't believe that you have enough information to say that to say that the word abuse should be reserved for serious damage...althought my wounds are not in the form of scars, cuts, or bruises, they are never the less serious damage that has cut me off from the outside world, lower my self-esteem...

For example, I have been told that the reason OP (our friends) don't stop my our house is b/c of my attitude...I'm not friendly enough...I act like I don't want them there...

THIS is a small example of ONE thing that has been said to me...I actually asked some of our friends about this, and had to explain that H said this to me...

SO, You are right in the sense that yes, OP should be told when they are right or wrong...perhaps it is my fault for not explaining myself well enough or is it your's for lack of information that I have included in my sitch since last May? More than likely a combination, I think, I'm working on my communication skills...so I apologize for my part!

Well, I think that this is way long enough! Thanks for posting and letting me share and having the opportunity to be shared with...I value you ALL! LOL...

What "way" are you feeling?
and please note the edit to my prior post (while you were posting <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )near the top about feelings "never being wrong"


oookay... but how is that "abuse"?
What if he is right in what he is saying? is it "abuse" then?
What if he is incorrect, but he still believes he is right, and trying to improve the situation? is it abuse then?

I do understand the damage of actual verbal abuse. And I DO agree with you that your husband should never deliberately make you look bad/"humiliate" you in front of other people. and even if he does it without meaning to, he should be willing to try to change his behaviour on that.

Rin,

I agree with Techie on this. I think there is a difference between being mean and being verbally abusive.

My FWW told me I was verbally abusive because I actually got mad and yelled at her after her A and finding out she was lying to me.

So I guess in a sense at the time my words could be deemed verbally abusive. In the context of the situation though were they. They still could be I guess.

Do I consider myself a verbally abusive person, or would anyone that knows me consider me verbally abusive. No. Not even the MC thought that and he heard both sides of why it happened.

I would say this though if you think he is, he is. Now the problem I see is this, Is he really verbally abusive or do you just think he is.

Techie-
(edit for clarity: sounds like you are agreeing with "feelings are never wrong". well, gee, there are plenty of people on here whose spouses are "feeling" that they are so in love with OP they just have to be with them now. So are you saying that's a feeling, so it isnt wrong?)[b]

Yes, I'm saying that feelings are not wrong....Ws [b]believe that they are in love with the OP...they are actually in fact in love with the feeling of being in love...it's not actually the OP they are in love with!

If I am feeling sad, and my H says that I am NOT sad...that's abuse! IF I am happy that the sun is sunshining outside and I am told that I shouldn't be happy becuase it's going to rain in a few hours. Yes, that's abuse! I am not wrong for feeling the way I do.

IF I believe that I am a good person and try my best to do the right thing and I am told that I am not a good person then, that is abuse. Take for example when my H told me that it is my fault that our friends don't stop by...

I can list the friends that have and do stop by our house...to say that they do this b/c of me is abuse...one, they stop by, two, how can I be more friendly when I offer them to come, something to drink, if I'm cooking to stay for supper...I can see if I didn't have time for them, didn't talk to them, and was in essence rude...

This statement made me doubt myself to the extent that I actually asked our friends if they had ever felt unwelcome when they stopped by...to this I got the response of no and was asked why...So, I had to explain that my H said this to me...

I was also told once by H that I do more for my company then I do for him...once again, I doubted myself and had to ask him how could he say that to me...to which he could not give me an answer...

I spend 8 hours a day at work...occasionally I will receive a call at home asking about this or that...I work five day a week...now when he said this he tried to say that someone told him this only after I asked for clarity...

I was told that I NEVER cook for him...I NEVER do anything for him...these statements were intend to hurt me...I wash his clothes, care for his kids, pay all the bills, occasionally cut grass, cook, clean, fold and pick up his clothes, make sure that he has what he needs when he needs it...At one point, I made sure that he did not go without SF more than one night...

Now, granted I have had to work extremely hard on the enmeshment and owning my part in the problems of our M...own the resentment, anger, and the abuse that I have dished out to him...

Even recently, I told H that I felt/believed that he is the healthy one and I am the sick one...

I am including this link. There are several catagories, not all apply in my M. I can say that my H use to withhold intimacy from me...I would ask for what I needed from him and would not get it...

I would say I like to be hugged or kisses and when I would try to do this he wouldn't let me...

I have asked to be comforted and he has been unable to do this...

For example, last year my grandfather passed on Good Friday...during the funeral, my H sat at the back of the funeral home while I sat one the first row consoling myself, wishing that he was there to at least hold my hand...he told our friends that I was taking his death fine when I wasn't...

This was the first time that he had sat apart for a funeral in all of our thirteen years...

Now, have things improved, YES...come to think about it while writing alot of this stuff has occurred in the past three years...WH and not FWH...a week after my GP passed I found out about the A...

I can even remember a time or two, one really comes to mind, where H called me a b1tch...

I'm coming to the conculsion that anytime that you are dealing with a WS that there is VA and EA...

I may not be able to do anything about my H's behavior but I can learn how to correct my own VA behavior...awareness, and making amends when I do it...just like I did the other day when I totally discredited what he thought about missing the paraades...

I said that he did not miss anything and he replied that I would think that because I was there...a few hours later I realized that he was right, and I was wrong...I had to right to discredit him and judge wheather or not he missed anything...he is the only one that can do that!

Frog-
I agree with you that was not abuse that was a consequences of her actions as a result of her A.

In my case, these were untruths...meant to be hurtful...to doubt myself...to get what he wanted...

I did not just up and say that H is abusive out of the blue...this is something that I have been going back and forth on...

I will consider if he is or if I think he is...

AH, i guess we had a misunderstanding on which definition of "wrong" was in use.

I was speaking in terms of "it is wrong to have certain feelings, and feed them into continuing"

whereas it seems you are speaking of, "I'm feeling X. When I say I am feeling X, I am never wrong".
different kettle of fish, as they say.
but!

"If I am feeling sad, and my H says that I am NOT sad...that's abuse! "

No, it's not "abuse". it's just silly/dumb behaviour for him.



errr, you didnt metion him saying "you are not a good person", You wrote previously, that he said you werent friendly enough.

you have still not yet mentioned any specifics he may have brought up.

friends will seldom be honest about things they find objectionable. We should consider ourselves lucky, if a spouse is willing to (hopefully gently) tell us unpleasant truths about ourselves, that we may otherwise not know we need to address. Would you say that is a true statement?

if that is the case... maybe you should try to coax some mention of specific behaviours out of him. If he cant think of one when confronted (sounds like he shuts down during confrontation), suggest that the next time friends comeover, you would be interested in him letting you know (privately) when you do something that he views as unfriendly. Does that sound sensible?






are you calling that abuse? 'cause I see a double standard there. Sounds like his feelings are that you treat others better than you treat him. By your own standard, he is not wrong, but "right", cause those are His Feelings.
It is unfortunate he couldnt come up with specifics. but maybe you confronted him to the point where he couldnt think clearly. or, he may just not be able to figure out why he feels that way. but he does feel that way.

he's communicating his feelings about something to you, and you're accusing him of "abuse" for it. that isnt healthy for a marriage. He may be doing a lousy job of communicating it, but he's at least trying to communicate a problem for him.


It sounds like your husband has serious problems communicating during conflict. It sounds to me like it would be effort well spent on your part, to see if there were some ways you could put him more at ease.
Given that you have identified YOURSELF as "verbally abusive" at times... maybe he's afraid of being verbally assaulted by you, if he ever brings up specifics.

If he is.. it's going to take a LOT of care, and patience, and gentleness, to coax him out of that defensive behaviour.

if he is locked into that behaviour.. try to remember that you are probably the one that trained him into it.


Hope this gives you something constructive to consider.