Do you guys or will you guys be getting anything legally stating that you are separating? The reason I ask is b/c he could be violating some abandonement laws... I was and am always scared - for me and my daughter. So you are very normal to think that way. Your H will have to pay some sort of child support and also some alimony since you are a SAHM caring for a 7 month old+ 3 other kids. At least that is what happened in our case.

I am sure all of our situations will fall into place some day. Maybe with our H's and maybe not. I do feel at times love and not love for my H. I love him always, but his lies and betrayal make it very difficult to even be around him at times. You are totally not pathetic - cuz if you are , then I am too - and I know I am not...

I was just cleaning the kitchen with Mia, thinking about how I have to host Christmas for H's family and my dad, etc. All this by myself, no help from H, cuz I can't ask him to. All doing this 2 months after my mom died, and it is my first Christmas without her - and to boot - my H bullied me into it without even thinking how emotionally difficult it would be for me without my mom for the first time, not to mention the stress of hosting 8 people in my home. Where H doesn't even freakin live...

Holy Mama - sorry - little pity party there for a sec - I am stressed... And I have a darn job interview on Monday and I am nervous - going back to work after staying at home with Mia for almost 2 years... Yikes...

Sorry for the ramble... Hang in there.. Things will work out for the better - that is for sure...

Well - as they often say around here, "Hope is not a plan."

He will continue to abuse you and your relationship for as long as you allow it.

A short and effective Plan A followed by a pitch-dark Plan B is the best remedy anyone has found so far.
Mulan

Many BS are advised to get a Legal Separation Agreement upon going to Plan B. It's not a divorce. It's just a way to protect yourself and your children since the WS refuses to protect you any longer.


With all due respect, your WH could not have done this without your consent. Since he will not protect you any longer, that leaves you. Where are you on this?
Mulan

Well Crap Mulan - you are so right on yet again. I initially said okay when we were in a false recovery. Then took the offer back when H lied yet again. Then he said, NO - you have to do it regardless of our situation - you have to do it for Mia. He tells me not to be so selfish b/c I didn't want to host it.

You are right Mulan. I do need to start protecting myself. what I mean by starting gradually into Plan B. Is to start small right now by not answering so many of his phonecalls, etc. I think that will make it easier when i have to go completely dark. Does that make sense?

There is no need to be at his beck and call and jump to answer his phone calls and do whatever he wants. He's used to that and will certainly start kicking if you are suddenly no longer so available, so be prepared for him to get nasty. But being more UNavailable can make you seem less of a doormat and less dependent on him.

It's fine to do that - just do not make the mistake of thinking it's some form of Plan B. In Plan B, there is NO contact at all.
Mulan

Okay, I can handle that. I guess I need to do some baby steps on my own to prepare. I am a planner, and I am also very fearful (just read Starfish's Post) - awseom by the way... I will let go of the fear, but must get myself used to certain things first. I mean - really letting go emotionally. Really not taking his calls, and accepting that he will hate it and get very mad at me, etc.

But he chose to leave, I gave him a year to come home, he did not, now he will soon see what leaving your wife is REALLY like...

Thank you Mulan - I appreciate you help. I am going to stop threadjacking Melly's post now...

So here I am freaking out. My H says hes leaving today. But this is not the first time he's done this. He never actually left but I feel like maybe its time for me to step up. To say its time to go and stop letting him slide. As we speak hes calling to tell me he loves me and wants me to send him a picture of my new haircut. When he said he wanted to leave he said he wanted to stay until the 15th of Jan but I feel things could get very bad if he stays. I think its best if he goes now. To be honest I think the kids will be more effected byy the change than by him leaving. I know my 10 yr old will be relieved. If I tell him he should stay or let him stay until the 15th won't I be feeding his behavior? This is what he does-he has even gone as far as leasing an apartment and cancelling the day before all the while dragging through emotional ******.He emailed me to tell me he was leaving and is now calling to tell me there is no one else in this world that means as much to him as me and so he'd like me to send a picture? What is this-does he really want control so much that he'll torture me to get it? I'm fed up and exhausted. This feels like I'm done. I can't take anymore-I just don't care. Now more than ever I feel like its time to walk away. It takes a long time for me to let someone in and once you hurt me I'm kind of done with you. That's not saying I don't forgive b/c I do but the kind and amount of pain hes causing is a little more than I'm willing to accept. How long can I be expected to live this way? Why now does he choose to call and be nice? Any advice about lawyers-good things to ask or what my next step would be as there is nothing financial setup for the kids and me?

Ali-don't do that I've enjoyed having you on the thread! It helps to hear someone elses story! And to know I'm not alone. I know there are plenty of people going through this but you seem to be handling it like me and have the same concerns not to mention ways of dealing and emotions.

Holy Crap. Is your H manic or something? He is leaving, but oh yeah, send me a pic of your haircut??? WTF???

My advice. Let him leave. Protect yourself and your children. All that is though is advice, you do not have to take it, but when my H threatened to leave, I said GO.

Did not do a darn bit of good yet, but living together any longer and we sincerely would have ended up killing each other because of our anger.

I will say, I love sleeping in my big cozy bed all by myself. And when we falsly recovered, I did not really enjoy having him interlope on my territory (bed) and in my routines that I had set up for me and Mia...

Plus his presence just simply annoyed me at times. Cuz I knew in my heart he was still lying to me, but I let him in again. Only to be let down yet again...

Protect yourself, and your kids. Your H is acting crazyish...

Yes. He does. And it works. He keeps you frightened and powerless and off-balance with his threats and bullying, and then sweet talks you into coming back for more. This give him 100% of the control in the relationship. He gets to do what he wants and have all the girlfriends he wants but still have a wife and kids at home, too.

It's emotional abuse, pure and simple. It will never stop until YOU take steps to make it stop. Hope is not a plan.
Mulan

my h is crazy. atleast i'm starting to think he is. last time he pulled this I of course fell right into my habits and played my part. but i'm done. what steps do you suggest I take. I no longer wait for him to do things-although this is very recent. I no longer expect or ask him to do things with us. is it possible that this is why he's doing this again. he likes to poke at me about ow and leaving and i've been telling to just go if he's so unhappy and she's so great. now I just can't do this anymore. I want our marriage sometimes but right now I feel like leaving is best. and again he's calling-why?

Melly, I think Mulan is right on for both of us. We are letting our H's treat us like SH*T. Would you or I ever let one of our children be treated this way??? NOPE - so why is it okay for us???

The answer - it is not okay. And until we grow some balls and stand up for ourselves, our H's are going to continue to treat us as we have taught them to and allowedd them to for so long...

I get it all -- I really do, and I believe it. It is just giving up the fear and facing the damn facts. My H left - let him go... DONE. Life will be more peaceful without him... And much more honest, to say the least!!!!!

I hate this for you. I really do. Stand up... Stand up for yourself. do not worry about what will happen when he leaves. Become proactive, contact a lawyer, get all your ducks in a row to make yourself feel better and more confident and more protected...

Gosh - I seem to have all the advice, but can't practice what I preach... HMMM - could be a problem...

So I made it through the first night! He called saying he was going to come home-atleast until he could get into his apartment and somehow I mustered the courage to tell him that was not happening. Did I do the right thing? The overwhelming sick feeling and heartbreak says no but maybe thats just fear?? He wanted to be able to string me along like he usually does. If I'm hurting and vulnerable then I can't protect myself and see what hes doing, right? He said he didn't have anywhere to go-should I have let him come home? Or was it right to leave him to his own devices? I guess that is what hes doing to us isn't it? The best part of all this is when I asked him to officially break it iff with OW he said that doing it in a letter,email, or by phone was wrong and he would absolutely not do that to her and yet he tells ME hes leaving by email. The he has a check for half of our savings-so that he can live comfortably and if the kids and I need more than he says hes going to give us we have to go to him. What kind of father doesn't put his kids above all? He would rather see us struggle than see himself struggle. What kind of person did I marry? Hes been doing this to us for over a year-I'm so tired of living this way. Hes always gotten his way by making me feel inadequate-I then would step it up and not ask him to do anything and the cycle would go I step up-become so overworked I'd get sick or was pregnant and go into labor-I would ask for help-he would make me look like a b*tch-I'd step it up-so on... Does he just hate me? I feel so alone. My kids have me and I have you guys and other family and friends but night time always comes and it'll be just me again. So I guess plan B kicks in now? No contact unless it's about the kids,right? Plan B is scarry so I guess I don't know much about it and I tried to read more about it last nigh and the PA but my brain and emotions are fried. Please help!

Protect yourself financially. WS's tend to blow all of the family money on the OW. Contact an attorney to see how to do it.

Plan B needs a Plan B letter. So start working on that.

My WH spouted the same crazy stuff when I put him out. Ignore it. You're getting stronger.

What do I put in my letter? Is it like a confrontation letter? I know the info is on the site but it's so hard for me to read long articles with all 4 kids running around and right now they are more clingy than usual. If someone could help me understand what the letter should contain I would soooo appreciate it.

Thank you to Mulan, Ali, and believer-your support and insight has been invaluable.

Here is a template from SP -

Here is my Plan B letter guide. Of course you will have to alter it to fit your actions, but it gives you a good way to write the letter so you can get the vets to go over it and rebuild it with you if necessary.

10 steps to a plan B letter

1.State that the WS actions with OP are have eroded your loving feelings for them and your number one priority is to protect the loving feelings you have for spouse. In order to do this you must separate yourself from their presence and contact so their actions cease to diminish your love for them.

2.State of intention to stay married to spouse.

3. Acknowledge own shortcomings in creating the marriage rift. (generally but factually)

4. State intention to keep children in original happy “two parent” marriage.

5 State intention to work with spouse to rebuild marriage better than it was before, to create a situation for both of you, so happy you will be completely fulfilled in the marriage.

6 State - separation. no personal contact for any reason - names of intermediaries of choice - if children in family - how to hand over children for visit through intermediary - financial - separation unless it is for children's needs. (sometimes you cannot keep them with you and have to pay support).

7. State intention to separate financial accounts totally if there are no children. Or state financial legal required support and method of payment.

8. State conditions for rebuilding. Or not. If A involved, NC with OP and NC letter to OP. Include job change, moving away, limiting (moderating) FOO contact and changing social circles if one or all of these is the only way to NC and/or chance to rebuild. Acknowledge that this will be hard for them and state your willingness to support them through the changes necessary. You can also put a time limit on how long the offer to change is open.

9. No other way to see or talk to you. Do not make exceptions to the boundaries - (common sense - in life or death situations, they, intermediary or doctor would automatically contact you and separation would be put on hold)

10. Reiterate love for spouse and intention to be married to them for the rest of your lives.

-------------------------------------------------

I was asked to help someone with a plan B letter. I couldn't find a template like this, it's probably under my nose, so I had a try at making one. I expect I have missed things out or got something wrong, but it is my first attempt. Comments welcome

SP

Supposedly he has had NC with OW for 4 months-how does this effect my letter and then do I address the other issues i.e his P/A behavior, his emotional abuse of both kids and me, his level of resentment towards kids and his childhood. As he has many issues from his childhood and refuses to acknowledge or work on. His A was the straw that broke the camels back but after A "ended" emotional abuse became greater. I can not change his behavior and I accept that-my own childhood involves an alcoholic-but I also need to protect the kids and myself from continued attacks on our self-esteem and knife twisting. As I stated he almost takes pride in his ability to hurt me with OW digs and you're not good enough digs.

Believer - thank you for that template. I have been trying to figure out how to write this thing for a while now...

Melly - I think your h is projecting his guilt on you. Try not to take it personally - it is not you nor is it your fault. Just know that your H is being a major jerk right now because he is hurting and doesn't know how to help himself, so all he can do is put you down, to "pick himself" back up...

Not sure if that makes any sense. Just take care of yurself and your kids and you will be okay... Also - try to seek legal help as well.

The lawyer I called can't see me until Thursday. So I called and had my H credit card deactivated so he cannot use the money thats for the kids and me to do this. I can't block him from the checking or savings account but atleast this is something. I haven't heard from him today yet so maybe today will be a little easier. Did you feel so shaken when your H left? I'm sure thats a stupid Q but I feel so lost. Everything feels like a blur at the moment. I'm sure you're right but can I in good conscience tell him I want our marriage while I'm not sure that is what's best anymore after all the damage he's done over the last year. I don't know-I assume he's leasing his apt. today but who knows. not knowing is hard for me. I don't want to tell him what to do but knowledge is power. Once again our marriage is in his hands but atleast I'm not. Sort of anyway. I can't say I won't answer the phone when or if he calls. I'd like to say there isn't a chance in ****** but I've also been putting up with this for a year. I'm worried for my kids as the holidays are fast approaching and there is no plan. They have a recital on Sunday so we'll see how that goes I guess. I just wish I was more sure of myself and the sitch. Should I have deactivated his card? Or is this wrong-couldn't t just make matters worse?

He may get pissed about the ccard, but who cares. But if he starts to groan and moan and yell and scream about it, please ask him to leave or tell him that you need to get off the phone. Don't allow him to abuse you - and if he is mad about the ccard - he will...

Knowledge is power, but knowledge can kick your butt too... I am sure my H is going out with OW tonight for his birthday while I stay at home with Mia, but I chose not to ask, and I chose not to care. Took me a very long time to be able to do this, and I still have to tell myself to quit obsessing over this crap sometimes.

Why don't you try NOT to answer the phone. Be strong, take this one day at a time. The first time you don't answer the phone feels good, then it makes it easier the 2nd time. And you get stronger every time. Really, give yourself a break from him - you and the kids deserve some damn peace and quiet.

I was a little shaken when H left, but there was sooo much emotional and psychological abuse going on - we were doing it to each other - I will take responsibility in that too, but I was so damn hurt I felt like I had to fight for myself.

Not knowing does suck, but sometimes, it really is better to not know... Don't really know what else to tell you on that one...

Melly - if you saw a guy on the street screaming abusively at his girlfriend or whatever, would you allow it to happen? I wouldn't. So if you wouldn't allow some stranger to be abused, then why would you allow yourself to be abused?