I need you to demonstrate that you value our marriage bond, both to me, and to others. If you arent willing to demonstrate that to others as well as me,
then that says to me that you dont actually value our marriage.
[need better wording for this next bit]
Reject flirtations from people. If they fail to respect that, then tell them you no longer wish to be around someone who does not respect your marriage.

Another way I need to feel you value our marriage, is by how you prioritize it. Putting someone else's schedule at a higher priority than our time together, says that you value a relationship with someone else, more than you value a relationship with me.
This is especially true for staying up late to "spend time with someone" online. If their schedule doesnt mesh with ours, then ...
[need better wording than ... "that's too bad" ]

No secret phone calls, chats, or any other "secret exchanges", with other men.
If you feel the need to hide a conversation, then there's something wrong with that conversation, and possible that relationship.


I need you to protect our marriage, not undermine it. Talking with other people, who arent specifically focused on helping our marriage, about problems in our marriage, at any level, is you opening the door to having them help you undermine it. I understand your need to talk about things with others. I'm only asking that you do so with someone who will support us, rather than cut us down.

[and then, something that isnt exactly a "boundary", but still a "requirement" to have a good marriage]:

Another thing that I think we will need, beyond the "protect our marriage" stuff I previously mentioned, would be, "maintain our marriage". To actively seek to keep our relationship a positive thing for both of us. To actively work to maintain and build our friendship/relationship.
In other words, to commit to a decent amount of "undivided attention" time together, that both of us will enjoy.

For commitment: In the abstract sense, obviously, it's rather important to the long-term viability of a marriage. I dont think I feel like it's a "boundary", because I dont think it's something that can be enforced. You can SAY you are "committed" to a marriage, but if you arent really... it wont make any difference. But in the more concrete sense, like you were asking; what matters most to me, is whether or not she follows through on the actions.... of protecting our marriage, and doing work to build our relationship up again.

On honesty: I really WANT to be able to trust my wife. Trouble is, she has told me, on multiple occasions, that she thinks she isnt capable of telling the truth all of the time. She hates "labels", but if she were to use one, I think she might even call herself a "compulsive liar", when it comes to telling the truth about important issues (ie: lying, for conflict avoidance).
And there are things in her life that make me understand why she is that way. I dont think I can expect/require her to always tell me the truth. I'd really, really like it if she could finally commit to, and stick to, doing that. But I'm not sure it's possible.

I could be ok in that area, in one of two ways:
Either she decides that having a good marriage, is enough to keep her honest in everything she tells me... or she acknowleges that I cannot trust what she says, so she doesnt have the right to get offended when I ask for proof of things she tells me, since at that point, she would have told me that she will not be 100% honest with me.
Complaining about "you dont trust me", would no longer be tolerated behaviour, when she herself admits she is not trustworthy enough to tell me the truth all the time. In that scenario, I think that "you dont trust me", should be met with "well, of course not... you already told me that I cant trust you."

The fantasy based interactions ARE the point and the draw.

But I could certainly use ongoing reminders/suggestions for that sort of thing in the future, too

We don't even know who your wife IS without her addiction.

techie -

I do think you're confusing posters urging you to start thinking about Plan B as being the same as telling you to go to Plan B.

When a BS finds him/herself in the position of being betrayed, they don't have time to put together a Plan A, so they more or less have to build it on the fly, improving it with time, experience and counsel.

However, Plan B is a much larger step. To make Plan B effective (remember, the goal of Plan B is to free yourself from the chaos of your WW's choices and actions, to preserve what love you have left for her, and to prepare you for the possibility that your marriage may not recover), you must get everything in order. It takes time for a BS to completely separate him/herself from a WS. It's even more difficult when kids are involved, because you cannot go 100% dark.

So do not ignore Plan B as an option. Think about, plan for it, and pray you don't have to use it. But have it ready if/when you need it. Otherwise you risk waking up one day realizing that you have to remove yourself from the chaos your wife is causing in your marriage, and you'll have to invest time and energy then that you most likley won't have.

And as Noodle said, if your wife has an addiction to online gaming, that must be addressed as well. Otherwise the door that was left open for attacks on your marriage will remain open. An addiction, of any kind, that takes one spouse away from the marriage is a huge threat, and must be dealt with before any significant work on marital recovery can take place, otherwise the path for relapse is always there.


Find new hobbies. Get re-engaged in old ones. Determine what you want to do in your life, and set about doing it.

[color:"blue"] I have been here for 18 months and I have never seen a successful recovery where the BS has been willing to discount the entry price to their heart for the WS. Not a single one.

Your attitude may feel right; you may be desperately grateful to have some shred of your wife back, but it is at the price of your dignity and any future for your marriage IME. Recovery takes a KNIGHT not a SERF.

You can win back a healthy marriage, but not like this. Do as you wish, you are at liberty to take any action you choose. Just know that suppication never works. Humility, yes, but supplication NEVER.[/color]

[color:"red"]I fully realize that a lot of people here think I'm appeasing my wife, or supplicating, or humilating myself. I disagree. I know my wife, and I know that there are times to push, and there are times to step back and let her find out for herself. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I do have a backbone. I also have a brain. My brain controls my backbone, not the other way around.

Over the last 3 weeks, I have done my best to follow God's will for my life. I believe that to be what I've stated before - to focus on making the changes in me that I need to make, to continue to love my wife, and to be there for her to the best of my ability. I also need to be there for our kids, as they stand the most to lose in this.

I have seen very real and very positive changes, in both myself and my wife, in the last 3 weeks since I really turned to God. Here's a prime example - when she told me that she was going to see the OM for 2 weeks to "say goodbye", she was absolutely adamant about it - even after our first MC session. Every time I tried to change her mind, it made her more resolved to go. When I backed off, gave it to God to deal with, and told Him I'd do what he asked of me and work on what He showed me to work on, I saw changes. In 4 days, she went from being PO'd at me and all ready to go no matter what, to waffling on whether to even go at all. She did go, but came back in 4 days - and about half of that time was spent at the airport (alone) or talking with me. I can guarantee you that if I had continued to push, she would have gone, had a blast, and probably spent the entire 2 weeks there, possibly longer.

As always, I welcome advice and comments. I do not, and never have said, that I will agree with everything or do everything people say I should. My guidance comes from God first, counsel and advisors second. And no, this is not some blind "God will fix everything" mantra. This is a decision, made by me on a daily basis, to trust fully in God in all matters of my life. And it's not easy. I have days where I doubt, days where I'm not even sure what to pray about, or if I'm even praying the right way, or doing the right thing. But everything I have seen, heard and felt in the last 3 weeks confirms to me that I am acting as God wants me to, despite the risk or illogic that it may appear to contain.[/color]

[color:"blue"]Beware using God as an excuse for cowardice. I tried that. Nearly killed me and almost lost my marriage. God REALLY strengthened my arm when I chose to FIGHT this demonic infidelity attack through prayer AND action.[/color]

[color:"red"]I am fighting this through prayer and action. Maybe I'm just obstinate, or stupid, but I don't see where I'm not taking action. I do not believe I am using God as an excuse for cowardice, or anything else.

What action(s) am I taking?

I'm working on identifying and fixing the problems that I contributed to our marriage.

I'm strong enough now that I can actually function at work (I took 2 weeks off at the end of the year, and was non-functional for the better part of 2 weeks prior to that) - this is important because I'm the main provider for the family.

I am showing my wife that I love her, want her, and care for her in every way I can think of, especially the ones she identified that are important to her. I will continue to do this, even when it's met with little or no reaction (and some has been met with very positive reaction).

I am not, and will not, condone her actions or the affair. I am also not going to hammer her about it or throw it in her face.

I am praying over and for my wife, along with her, every day, throughout the day.

I have dropped as many walls as I can that stood between her and me. I am as open with her as I can be - and yes, that makes me vulnerable, but I'm willing to take the risk.

I am encouraging her in every good thing that she does (and there are many).

I am doing my best to row away from the rocks.

I have to admit, I'm somewhat lost and confused as to why so many people think I'm going about this the wrong way, or hiding behind God, or have no backbone, or whatever?

A lot has been posted on this thread, and my wife's. Would someone care to summarize, if possible, exactly what it is everyone thinks I'm doing wrong, and what I should be doing? The general sense I get is that I should have told her to go to the OM and not come back. What exactly would that have accomplished, with regards to saving this marriage? She went, she came back way early, the trip turned out to not be what she had planned at all, and we're genuinely trying to fix things.

So let's play the hypothetical. Let's go back to that dreary day in December when she told me about her plans. I tell her fine, go to the OM, but don't bother coming back. Then what? Hope she eventually decides I'm the better man and comes back in a month? 2 months? 6? A year? I guarantee you that she would have gone if I pushed, and if I pushed that hard she most likely would have stayed.

The 4 days she was gone was hard enough - not just on me, but on our kids as well. I do not know if I could have kept things together for months on end.

Maybe I'm weak. Maybe I'm a coward. I will admit that I do not want to lose my wife, or this marriage - I wouldn't be fighting this fight if I did. But I also believe that the course I am steering is the right course - for me, and for our marriage.

Answer me this, if you wish. She went, she came back. She went against my wishes. What have we lost, compared to what we might have lost if she went, stayed, got bored and came back? I honestly do not see what the difference is - this marriage has been ripped right down to its foundation, but now we have the opportunity to rebuild it the right way. Centered on Christ.

Is not one of the first steps to recovery for the affair to end? Is it not better for the affair to end sooner rather than later? Does everyone feel that it would have been better for my wife to go live with the OM for months and come home when/if she was truly repentent? Wouldn't it be better for her to come home, be with her kids, and work her way towards repentance without being involved in the affair? Repentance is repentance - it doesn't matter if it comes in the middle of the sin (as long as you stop the sin) or after.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, and I'm not mad (a little annoyed, yes, but not mad). I'm just trying to figure out why everybody seems so hung up on what I've done (or not done), and so disinterested in where I plan to go in the future.[/color]

[color:"blue"]Where do you plan to go in the future ?

More eating crow ? Changing YOU and accepting HER hoping it will make her see you in a different light ?

Or will you expose the affair to anyone important in OMs and her life to test the strength of its bonds and to help keep NC ?

Will you set boundaries for yourself ( such as NC for ever, total transparency of WW activities and efforts to keep you from further hurt) and make it clear to you WW that violation of such will require you remove yourself from that situation ?

Don;t settle for crumbs, BB. Please.[/color]

If you think I'm stupid, or blind, or whatever, by doing this... that's fine. put me on ignore, and dont post to my threads.