And what I dont get, and noone has really explained to me, is what is supposed to happen as 'repercussions', besides "go to plan B" ?
doesnt seem like anything else was offered. (exposure was already tried)
And, doesnt seem like anything else much IS possible, while maintaining plan A. I dunno.

I guess I should add that I brought up another issue with Dr. Harley.

If I know my WW is lying to me about where she is going, should I let her know that I know what she is really doing?

Dr. Harley said no. He said it will accomplish nothing but drive her farther away or end up in a LB argument that will reinforce her affair.

The repercussions are that you make it clear to her that you're hurt by what she's doing. Don't hide your feelings, don't 'suck it up'...let her know how you feel without DJ'ing her.

And, if she chooses to continue that behavior in the face of that...well, it's up to you, isn't it?

Plan A HAS to have a stick. Otherwise it's plan doormat. Without that 'stick', there's no true drive to push the WS off the 'fence'. Without a 'stick', almost any WS will cake eat. They'll keep the best of both worlds...let's be blunt, it's the true goal of almost every WS. They want to have both their spouse AND the OP.

That stick is normally two part. Exposure is the first...if they're in the affair, you expose that to anyone who can influence your wife to end her affair and work on repairing her marriage. I know she's moved out of your house...I've forgotten...what does her parents say about this whole situation? Do they know why she left, what she was doing...what you believe may be happening now? Do her online friends know that she's married? Know that she's 'carrying on' with someone in game right alongside them?

The other is not protecting them from the 'consequences' of their affair. That means letting them know how much that affair is damaging those around them. How much it hurts you. How what she's doing could/will result in losing you completely at some point. That continuing to do what she's doing can/will have long term impacts on her life.

Now...after all of that...plan A is for someone actively involved in an affair. IS SHE STILL INVOLVED IN AN AFFAIR?

If not...then you're not in plan 'anything' that is specific to an affair, at least any of the plans on this website that I'm aware of.

What you need to be doing in that case is starting over in your relationship with her...IMVHO. Which means being attractive to her...and in establishing the NEW relationship from scratch, with the appropriate 'boundaries' in place from the beginning.

As far as consquences to the violation of boundaries...that really depends on what you're willing to put in place. From what I've seen, I don't think that you're comfortable taking any measureable steps in that direction. I can't advise you there...my boundaries were very concrete with very specific consequences, and have remained that way for quite some time.

As far as what Steve is telling you...follow his advice, as long as you know that he's got the WHOLE story. You're paying him...we're just here giving free advice based on our own recoveries. But realize that our advice may well differ from Steve's...and it's up to you to take the actions that YOU think will work, based on his advice and/or ours.

Just some food for thought.

Hi Techie,

I think that repercussions would involve your halting any behavior on your part that protects your wife from the consequences of HER choices.

For as long as that happens, she will likely continue to make the same choices.

This isn't about punishing her for her choices. It's about removing any behavior on your part that enables her to continue making the same choices.

Loving your spouse means you want the best for her, even when she can't see what that is.

Plan A = making YOURSELF more lovable.

Focus on changing you. You can't control her choices, but you can stop doing things that make it easier for her to make the choices she is currently making.

aha. i made this mistake in my venting. that is a large part of what triggered this situation i think.

she wasnt admitting doing anything that would hurt me. the other stuff she wasnt admitting, i couldnt confront her on, as per above.

[/quote]
I think that repercussions would involve your halting any behavior on your part that protects your wife from the consequences of HER choices.[/quote]
we're separated. there is nothing I do that "protects" her. there are no consequences of her choices in the current situation.

nothing i am doing is enabling it.

perhaps she is after all, and she just hid it very very well.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Well, if you can't confront, if you can't hold her accountable, if you can't do any of the standard stuff that we've all used to recover our marriages...I can't give you any other suggestions or advice. I've got no other recommendations for you. I've done all I could.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Techie,

I don't think it matters whether you have proof of some indiscretion on your wifes part, if there is something that hurts you, you are allowed to state with 'I' statements what you know. It's not about proof, it's about honesty.

For instance, I broke my Plan B last night to have a lengthy discussion about my WH calling my house mistakingly, thinking it was OW. I told him , "I am hurt by your mistaking me for OW". I didn't LB or DJ, just stated a fact. He was honest and said that he did do that, but he could have said something to the effect of 'I never phoned you tonight, you must be mistaken'. You see, I'm not looking to prove anything, I'm looking to express my truth. That is the consequence that he bears for making that mistake, and he 'seemed' completely taken off guard. I may not have solved all of our problems, but I reached through the fog with my truth, and it hit him square between the eyes. There is nothing to lose but yourself...

techie -


I disagree. You may just need to get more creative in your thinking. I think this is why people bring up considering Plan B for you.

Right now, you have done everything in your power to show her that you will be there for her, and appear to be willing to wait forever. As long as that is true, if it is, she will have no impetus to make a choice. She can continue to have the best of both worlds, while simultaneously crying that she's the victim in all of this.

Do you pay for her internet connection? Do you you pay or provide support in any other method for her to continue her gaming, the source of her EAs?

If you do, stop paying for it. I told my wife that if she did not go NC, I would suspend her cellphone and cancel our internet.

Sure, she can pay for it herself, go to the library, a friend's, whatever. The point is, YOU are not paying for it. Nor are you enabling it.

Don't suck it up and take her disrespect. Call her on it - but do so without LBing. No AOs, no SDs, no DJs. Look up Orchid's posts on reverse babble.

And then move on. Focus on you and your kids. Enjoy life - really enjoy it. Let her see how much you enjoy it. Define yourself, and act accordingly.

Many WS' (men and women) have snapped out of the fog when they realized that their spouse was more than willing - and able - to move on without them.

i am no longer supporting her in any way that I can think of. She has dropped the mooring ropes, and is on her way, on her own, of her own choosing.

yup. I'm gonna have to get better at this. I havent done so well in this department. (socially challeged. sigh)

Techie,

Could a possible consequence of her choices be the loss of your love and emotional support?

techie, I sometimes think/thought of myself the way you do (socially challenged). You probably sit in front of a computer all day like I do. I decided I needed to just become more social and started to go to every event we could (even ones where I don't know anyone), I read a few books on conversation since it has always been hard for me to talk to new people. I even try to go dancing with my wife once in a while these days. You can become more confident in this area; it just takes practice! Have fun with it.

“How to Win Friends and Influence people” by Dale Carnegie

is an excellent book to read for the "socially challenged"

I really liked what normalguy said about it taking practice - getting out of his comfort zone to become more social.

well, it's finally come out.

Yup, she's soooo worried that i'm going to not "support" her any more and be there for her... that she served me a summons yesterday, notifying me of her filing for divorce.
She actually filed back in july, but decided to drop it on me now. (9 days before 6 months of separation hit)
So much for "cake eating"

Hey Techie...are WE the appropriate dropping point for your sarcasm? Bluntly, you've had nothing but people who have wanted to help you, and I for one am getting pretty done with you basically being ticked off at US for wanting to help you.

Sorry to hear about the situation, but don't seen any reason why you should be sarcastic with those who tried to help. And bluntly, it's not like you followed any of the advice here and made your situation worse.

So what's the sudden cause for her to file? Seems to me your next step is to get to the bottom of that, and base your actions from there.

"advice" is nice. "Advice", is "here's my opinion, take it or leave it".
I'm pissed at all the people who gave me the WRONG advice, but yet called me an idiot/dumb/etc, etc. because I couldnt possibly know my own wife better than they do. That isnt just "advice".

anyways... as far as reasons, she's giving me the same junk she told me about why she blew up at me a week(?) ago. except now throwing a little more spin on it. claims I havnt just been keeping track of her. there are now 'recordings', and stuff. Ironically, I think she's been recording ME, and she got her projective acusations a little too informative to me. eh, who knows.

also, "well, I had the papers already filed, so..."
Sheesh.


She actually came to our wednesday diner tonight. thanked me for dinner. also thanked me for the very nice birthday present I gave her. I marked it as, "Happy birthday to the woman I love". I gave it to her after the summons. birthday is on the 21st. I had already told her I bought it for her, BEFORE I got the summons. But I made a point of following through and still giving it to her.

She said "well, we have 6 months to change 'our' minds". and that she's going to do some "hard thinking" over this coming weekend.
But no, I will not be played into dropping my guard over this. I told her it will take REAL trying, for anything to work. (ie: being subtly in her face about, "I'm not going to settle for crumbs this time")

I've been busting my butt the last 5 months to show her that I am sincere in wanting us to recover, and that I am capable of change, and being a positive, loving husband. I still want to recover our marriage. But now the burden is going to be on her, to convince me that she's not still trying to play me. 'cause otherwise, she's "the enemy".

Now I have to find a freakin lawyer in Los Angeles/Long Beach area to cover my butt. (Long beach preferred). Anyone know a kick-[censored] one?

WARNING- 2x4 coming:

I still don't get it Techie. How can you be pissed at people who's advice you never followed?

They gave you their 'opinion'...take it or leave it (as you put it) based on their experiences on recovering their marriages and based on what they've seen/learned here and on other forums...most of us for years. And that advice WAS/IS 'take it or leave it'...they gave it, you didn't take it. Can't be pissed off at that.

They don't know your wife...or you. But they DO know your situation. Either from their own bitter experience or by helping others deal with it...again, just like me.

Guess what...just like we tell nearly EVERYONE when they come here... There really ISN'T anything 'unique' about your situation It's not effectively different than anyone else's. Your wife seperated from you shortly after d-day. Happened to a lot of folks. The affair occurred as a result of online gaming addition...happened to me. The dynamics of the situation are almost always the same...just the names change.

So when you get bent because that advice isn't 'tailored' to you...get unbent, because it doesn't NEED TO BE.

Even now...your wife, you...BOTH...are behaving according to a script we've all seen many many many times.

She's had an affair. Left home because of it. Refuses to accept ANY responsibility for her actions. Blames it all on YOU. Any action at all that she doesn't like...she blames on you and makes you jump through hoops to do things HER way. Sound familiar?

You came here looking for advice and help, and then patently refuse to accept it when it's given. You're convinced that you know better...even when you're sitting there watching the whole situation get worse when you've not even taken any of the advice given. It HAS to be the MB people's fault...it can't be yours.

Again, nothing most of us haven't seen many many times.

Think about this...you HAVEN'T taken any of the advice we've given, and it's led you to this. So what's YOUR plan from here?

Personally, I think you should go back and re-read the entire MB principle again. Read SAA, HNHN. Start trying to figure out what went wrong in your marriage that led to this...start figuring out what EN's you're not meeting, and work to meet them. Start holding her accountable for her actions. Quit blithely accepting blame for what she does wrong...and quit being afraid of what's going to happen if she's angry at you.

I've no doubt that you're seriously 'pissed' again at my post. Good. Now step up to the plate and do what you've got to do.

So she's filed. What's your plan NOW? I read that you feel it's up to HER to prove what she wants to do...you're done doing all the work. ABOUT TIME! THAT is where most of us have been trying to get you to go for the whole time. So how are you going to implement that strategy?

Actually, it was because of all the pressure from here, that I blew up at her that night. Decided to "not be such a doormat", and speak my mind on what she's doing.

That made the situation worse, bringing to the fore, issues that were just kinda simmering, and that now overt conflict, was most likely what caused her to pull the trigger on things.

It screwed up the plan that I was overwise working on, from steve's advice.

techie, one day you will hopefully see that the above statement is ALL GOOD. When I exposed and stood up to my WW (without LBing) she was ALWAYS pissed and angry in return, but she slowly started to see that I would not accept blame for her actions any longer. This stuff takes time...lot and lots of time.



The ISSUES will NEVER simmer and go away until they are DEALT with.

HTW

BTW...EXCELLENT post OWL!

No one told you to blow up. That's a love buster (disrespectful judegement and angry outburst).

What we've told you to do is to not let her get away with treating you like dirt. Tell her what you're feeling...but that didn't mean that you had the right to blow up. BIG difference. Get the picture?

GO READ THE MATERIAL ON THIS SITE AND THE BOOKS I MENTIONED

You need to learn how to do plan A the way it was supposed to be done.

Techie,
If what you were doing was working so well,, why do you keep asking advice here?
Just curious