YOU chose to turn sound advice into 'pressure' and then YOU chose to blow up at her.

YOUR choices!



Again, YOU decided to love bust her, by blowing up.

YOUR choice.



Your statement would be more honest if you said. "I screwed up the plan..." Not " It screwed up the plan..."

Where's the ownership in your post?

~ Marsh

Marsh...You took the words right out of my, er, fingers! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />...techie, OWN your CHOICES and let your wife OWN hers...

Mrs. W

See the 3rd message in this thread.

Eh. "blow up" is relative. I didnt insult her. i confronted her with truth. ie: she has only put in a tiny bit of effort to restore our marriage.

but she is unwilling to deal with truth. She will take my stating truth, as DJs. since to her, they somehow arent true.

It WAS an "angry outburst" in some ways. Except that "angry outbursts" are usuaully defined as yelling, etc.
This was more just finally getting out all the things that were bothering me.

But all this is a moot point now.

techie -

I am sorry to hear that your WW has served you with papers. But that does not mean it's over yet.


If that is what you said, then you confronted her with your opinion that you tried to state as a truth. That is a DJ. Subtle things, those DJs. I have a lot of trouble with them myself.

A non-DJ (IMO) statement would have been "I do not feel that you are putting much effort into our marriage. Here are some things that you could do to show me." and then give her a couple items to do. Don't demand them. Simply state them. It's up to her to decide if she will comply with your request.



She is unwilling to deal with your truth. That is her problem, not yours. She feels she is done with the marriage, why should she put any effort into it?


And how did you get this off your chest? By telling her what she is or isn't doing? What she is or isn't thinking? Again, those are DJs.

Shortly after D-Day, my wife told me that "She felt I didn't want her or the kids, so she gave me a Biblical route out."

Her truth: "She felt like I didn't want her or the kids."

Her DJ: "She gave me a Biblical route out."

She was basing her actions and choices (or at least justifying them) based on what she thought I felt, regardless of whether or not it was true.

Again, the difference (to me, at least) is quite subtle. But it is there.

When you got things off your chest, were you stating your truths, or were you stating your hurt and anger over her choices?


Why is it a moot point? Are you throwing in the towel on your marriage? Just because she's escalated things and served you with papers?

techie, you can only own what is truly yours to own. You cannot own anything else. Stop basing your plan and actions (if you are) on what you think your wife will or won't do, or what you're afraid your wife will or won't do. Define your truths, and act from them accordingly. Your wife may or may not come along for the trip - but that is her choice, not yours.

I believe that is what everyone here is (and has been) driving at.

Techie,

Its the WS, not the BS (you), that decides what is or is not a Love Buster.

I am sitting here in amazement reading how you continue to be argumentative with people who are still trying to help/support you.

Is being "right" really worth alienating so many people?

Techie,

This is not a DJ, but has anyone ever asked you why you feel the need to be right all of the time? Does that sound familiar?

The reason I ask, is I look back at this thread alone and see you justifying everything that you DIDN'T listen to and DIDN'T try because someone ELSE was wrong, and this is why. I don't see you being humble to those who have suffered the same ills that you are suffering and have gotten beyond that, who have sage advise, and are STILL talking to you on this board. You are a lucky somebody to have so many trying to help you. Why won't you let them? I know how hard it is to turn the mirror on yourself, but HALF the reason that your M is in trouble will stare you in the face when you do...

you are right. So, how would you suggest I describe problems to her, then, such as:
- she isnt really trying to fix our marriage
- she is repeating the same pattern of behaviour with men as she did previously


aha, you do give a good example of one of them:


Trouble is... she decides not to comply. She has stated that various things I have asked, are "too big of a step".

it SEEMS LIKE she's been deliberately stalling. But if she's not... i need ways to convince her that half-steps, just wont get there.
Steve has suggested some.. but they just bounce right off her. sigh.

How do I.. or DO I.. bring up issues like "I think she's stalling", or "half-hearted efforts, are doomed to failure"

To silentlucidity:
"This is not a DJ, but has anyone ever asked you why you feel the need to be right all of the time? "

(BTW: that IS a DJ, reguardless of whether you write "this is not a DJ" in front of it. You are making a judgement against my internal needs. )

I dont have a "need to be right". I have a need to have firm rational basis to change my view on what I believe to be right. I dont mind being proven wrong. It makes me happy to increase my knowlege in areas where I was previously incorrect or ignorant.

I state why I believe I am right. I restate the reasons, when people tell to tell me I am wrong, but dont address the reasons I have stated why I believe I am right. This seems to somehow irritate certain people; yet it is even more irritating to me, when people try to "help" me, without reading what I have written <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Bad advice, is worse than no advice.
If they DO actually address what I am saying, then I am quite capable of changing my view. As I have just demonstrated with HB.

Why do you assume she doesn't already know these things?

It's far more likely that she knows EXACTLY what she's doing and is OK w/ it.

What if THAT is the case here, Techie?

What options do you have left?

~ Marsh

Example of an obsessive need to be Right (aka case in point):


Lordy lordy.

Thanks for the direct answer. I do see a need in you to be right, and to make others advice out to be bad, but again, this is just from my perspective, reading what you have written and what others' have written. I think it was Pepperband who said we judge ourselves by our intent, we judge others by their actions. I don't know your intent on this thread, considering the title is one that tells many to KEEP OUT.

Peoples' ADVICE, well, it's really just knowledge gained from their situation and perspective; I don't think it's bad or good or meant to do YOU harm, just advice. I have not always agreed with every bit of 'advice' given to me, but I have always been appreciative of the guidance and time people have spent on my thread. You just seem very ungrateful, combative, and certainly disappointed. I am also disappointed with the outcome at my attempt to save my marriage, but I ABSOLUTELY in no way BLAME anyone's advice. I feel for you, I really do, as many here do, and will continue to, because we ALL know what you are suffering. I'll bid you adieu, and hope that you and your wife can turn this boat around. Good luck to you.

it's quite possible. and even quite likely.
In that case, she wont withdraw the filing, the divorce will proceed, our marriage will end in divorce, and there isnt anything else I can do. Then it will be time to forget about her, and focus on taking care of my children. (actually, I will probably do that at the time I file my mandatory "response to the petitioner".)

If it eventually fizzles out on whoever she's planning to get together with(if that is her plan)... it will most likely take 3 years until she gives up on it. at which point, she will have subjected our children to almost 4 years of emotional torture, and I will probably not trust her enough to ever take her back at that point. No, I have no plans to "move on" to someone else. But nor do I think I would want her back at that point.

I hope she changes her mind. I hope she finally wakes up and reconsiders what she is doing to our children by all this, before it is too late. But "too late" is fast approaching.
It makes me sad. But I'm getting emotionally ready to deal with it. I'm getting tired of the "say one thing, do another" dance from her.

I don't know if you are in a place to really hear these words Techie, but here goes ....

[color:"blue"]Change occurs when the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change.[/color]

When will you file your mandatory response to the petitioner?

Does "forget about her" mean you will work a Plan B at this time?

~ Marsh

i was served on the 11th. So, I have until the 10th of jan.. make that 8th of jan to be safe, before i MUST serve her with a response. 30 days, in California.

If it gets that far... I'm not sure I even will bother with a plan B.
There are things about her that I havent even told Steve about. Things above and beyond what I've seen anyone post about their spouse here, except maybe one person. That's another reason why I have not done plan B, also.

if it gets that far, and she has no remorse or regrets enough to bring her back by herself... then i'm not sure she is even capable of having a good marriage.
She once was, I think. i THINK.
But this will be the second (or maybe third. 4th?) time this has happened. (EA). with it getting worse each time.
Last time one ended, I had to threaten divorce. Plus the other guy had to dump her also.

This time, it has come to divorce.

There will be no next time for me. If we get divorced, I think it will be over permenantly.

She previously claimed, that she "never wants to go through this again", but let it happen anyway.

I will not let this happen to me again. Or our children.

If she will not recommit and work to rebuild our marriage now, for the sake of at least sparing our children further grief... then I dont believe there would ever be anything that could make her be faithful to me in the future.

There was actually an EA she had just before we were married . (we were only seeing each other on weekends at that point, because in process of relocation). With of all things, a gay guy.
(who in some ways, somehow returned her affections, at least verbally)

She very proudly boasted to me a few times, that she "chose to do the right thing", by choosing to marry me instead. "right" for what, I wonder.

bah. enough ranting. I'm getting more angry. Going to go Christmas shopping for my boys instead.

well, I've calmed down now.

Read back through the journal of us that i've been keeping.
Looked back at after the time she filed. july 18th.
It's kinda a confusing mess. mixed signals, from the things I observed at that time.

For a woman who, somewhere inside her, loves our children... it's a damn shame what she is deciding to do... and what she's deciding NOT to do, also.

techie -

How are things going? I've been busy lately, but I'm catching up on your thread now.


Well, I'm no expert here, but if she says that, why not ask her to tell you what steps she's willing to take? Put the onus back on her.


I'd say don't. At least not those words. You've tried those words, and they didn't work.

I don't know your wife, but from everything you've shared it sounds to me like she is stalling. This is quite common for WS. They simply don't want to make a decision - they want the best of both worlds.

This is where your boundaries come into play. Tell her what you need, ask her how she can meet your needs, and let her know that if she's not willing to meet your needs, you will choose to (whatever your consequence is).

If she truly wants your marriage, she will make every effort to show that. But it has to come from within her.

View it like a basketball team, and you're the coach. You've got a player that you're quite fond of, and you know he's got the skills to go all the way. However, he consistently puts in little to no effort, and is basically coasting through the season.

As a coach, you would tell this player that he either needs to bring his whole game, or you will bench him. It doesn't matter how fond of him you are, or how good he is.

Commitment = playing time.

Lack of commitment = splinters from riding the bench.

Heh... thanks for checking up on me. good timing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

See my new "talking with wife" thread


as far as stalling goes.. I think she may be stalling, but not to "avoid making a decision", but rather to "avoid going back on her existing decision to divorce"

I think she's afraid to try, and get disappointed again. She doesnt want to get her hopes up, after getting burned out on trying to wake me up for years.