Hello everybody,

Get ready for some sex talk. I apologize if I offend anyone, but it all needs to be said.

I know this is not exactly unique, but the frequency of SF in my marriage has significantly declined, to the point where it was maybe once or twice a month even before the A. During my WW's PA the frequency of course got even worse.

Well, I forget when, but sometime early in the M I began to realize that most of the time I tried to initiate SF, I would be rejected. I don't think many W's realize how damaging this is to the M. I also realize it's a Catch-22. My W doesn't feel like having SF with me because I'm not meeting her needs, but I don't feel like meeting her needs because she's not meeting my needs (SF being just one of them). I remember so many times feeling pissed, and thinking "Doesn't she realize how easy it would be to keep me happy...just have SF with me every day". Of course, I marvel now at how equally blind I was at how I was not doing the things I needed to keep her happy.

Looking back, I realize that I "handled" this situation by engaging in a lot of "preventative maintenance", if you catch my meaning. It is simply too painful, physically and emotionally, to let my SF needs "build up", and then be dependent on her to meet them and not have any release. And if I were to try to initiate in bed at the end of the night and be rejected, well, you can be sure I won't be getting to sleep for hours. So I stopped putting myself in that vulnerable position. I started taking care of my own needs more often. Our sex life became basically me waiting for the one time a month or so that she felt like initiating SF, and I would gladly participate. I never discussed the other 10-15 times (maybe every 2-3 days) during the month that I had to take care of my own needs. I assume she knows that I must be doing it, but she may not realize how often I (and most men) need physical release (see Seinfeld: "It's like shaving" "Women shave too!" "Not every day!").

Well, because our M has been blasted out of routine by my WW's A, we will need to do a lot of things differently if we are to build a M the right way. And I realize that me basically having my own sex life with myself on the side is not a good thing. But I have a few questions:

1) I don't expect my WW to be on board with a full recovery program and actively trying to meet my needs for a long time. That means I can't expect SF with the frequency that I truly need for a long time. That means I need to either continue my "preventative maintenance" work, or basically walk around ready to burst. So how radically honest should I be here? Should I tell her that I really need SF, and that if she absolutely can't participate that I need to go to the other room and "relieve" myself? I mean, that's honest, and it does actually feel better to me to let her know than to go behind her back.

2) What about timing these talks after an A and in recovery? We are VERY early in our healing. Actually, we're mostly still trying to work our way through WW's withdrawal before we can begin healing. Should I put on hold my frank discussions of SF with her for a few months? In MB terms, my frank SF talk would be my Taker coming out, and I'm supposed to be focused on my Giver during this time right?

3) What about the long term? What if even after we are "recovered", she doesn't want SF often? Or does that mean we are basically not recovered if we are not meeting each other's needs?

4) Is it realistic to never "fly solo" again? I would love nothing better than to have every physical release be with my W, but that's only possible if my W is actually willing to meet these needs, even if she's sometimes not in the mood herself. Does anyone ever find themselves in a M like that? It seems like a dream, too good to be true, to not have to take SF into your own hands (*ahem*). Does anyone here actually have a M with completely satisifed SF needs? And to be clear, this all assumes that I have become an expert at meeting her emotional needs, am making her completely happy and fulfilled in the rest of the M, and I am not just "forcing" her into meeting my needs.

NS

Read these Q&A Columns for Dr. Harley. They tell you how to approach the situation. It all can be summed up by the policy of joint agreement and fulfilling ENs without LBing. I know it is a lot to read, but you need to read it. Here are the columns:

[quote]
How to Meet the Emotional Need for
Sexual Fulfillment (Part 1)
Letter #1



Dear Dr. Harley,
Three weeks ago my husband of 16 years said he wanted to separate. He said he felt that his emotional needs had not been met for a long time and he doesn't want to fight to have them met. We don't argue very much, we respect and truly like each other. I know that I have a difficult time meeting his emotional needs because of my childhood. I am presently in therapy to learn how to overcome my problems. Both of us deserve a chance to have our needs met, but I don't know if I will be able to meet his.

What do you think? I would appreciate any and all comments.

J.W.



Dear J.W.,
I would guess that the need you do not meet for your husband is sex. You mention in your letter that he is tired of arguing with you about it, and he wants a separation. Over the years he has probably tried numerous useless tactics to improve your sexual interest, like arguing once in a while and threatening separation. Apparently, your sessions in therapy aren't working very well either. Nothing has worked so far and I'm sure you think that nothing will. What will you do now?

You mention in your letter that experiences in your childhood have prevented you from meeting your husband's need for sex (I assume that this is the need you are referring to). Your husband is probably very frustrated with the progress that has been made toward resolving those childhood issues. Most men are frustrated, because such therapy does not usually help their wives become better sex partners. My experience and the experience of many sex therapists I know has convinced me that trying to resolve childhood issues does not lead to great sex between a husband and wife. In many cases I've witnessed, it has actually led a couple to divorce.

On the other hand, sexual inhibitions are relatively easy to overcome using other methods that do not require a rehash of the past. I believe you can learn to meet his emotional need for sex in spite of unpleasant experiences you may have had in your childhood.

One of the greatest sexual inhibitors is a bad relationship. If you and your husband are not getting along very well, and that seems to be the case if he is threatening to leave you, your first order of business is to resolve your marital conflicts by taking each other's feeling into account. I'm afraid that more or better sex will not accomplish that objective. When a couple has a bad relationship, I do not begin by encouraging more sex. First I fix the relationship, and nine times out of ten, sexual problems disappear, with or without unresolved childhood experiences. I spend very little time fixing sexual problems these days because most couples I counsel don't have sexual problems after they have learned to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement.

If I could be convinced that you do, in fact, have a loving and caring relationship with your husband, and you still have sexual problems, then my advice for you can be found in my response to the letter that follows.



How to Meet the Emotional Need for
Sexual Fulfillment (Part 1)

Letter #2


Dear Dr. Harley,
I am married to a very patient and understanding husband. The only major problem we have involves our sex life. I just seem to have no interest in sex whatsoever. I have tried many things to help get me interested. I have bought stacks of books, magazines, movies and have even talked to my gynecologist. Nothing seems to help.

I believe part of the problem is due to an episode from my childhood but am not sure. I got married right after my 18th birthday and was in a marriage that was similar in that there was little interest in sex on my part. But I also did not love him the way I love my current husband. I knew my first marriage would never last, but now I know my second will if I can get some help with this problem.

I know it is not fair for my husband. It has gone two months now without our being intimate, and I can tell that it bothers him. I don't miss the sex, but do feel bad that I am not giving him what most people consider something that comes naturally. I want my marriage to last forever, for I love my husband with all my heart. We have two children of our own and one from my first marriage, and I find him attractive. I just don't know what to do. He is a kind and caring man, and I feel I may lose him if I can't change my attitude toward sex, even though he says he won't leave. I enjoy sex when I can get in the mood, its the getting in the mood part that is the problem. I just don't see it as an expression of love the way my husbands does. I just do it to make him happy and because I feel I am suppose to. I would love to hear any comments you may have on our situation. I just don't know what to do.

B.K.



Dear B.K.,
One of the most important reasons that husbands and wives fail to meet each other's emotional needs is that they don't share the same interest in them. Men want marriage to emphasize the needs that they have, such as sex, and women want marriage to emphasize needs that mean most to them, such as affection and conversation. Truth is, they can do it all. Marriage can meet a man's need for sex and a woman's need for affection and conversation, even when the wife has little interest in sex and the husband has little interest in affection and conversation.

The key to understanding how men can meet women's needs and vice versa is to understand that one's own needs or interests are not required to meet someone else's needs. A man who has no need for affection can learn to be an affectionate husband, and a woman with no need for sex can learn to be a great sex partner. In my Q&A column on affection (June 24th), I describe a method I use to teach unaffectionate men to become affectionate. It really works, and it often increases a man's interest in affection as well. I use the same approach to resolving sexual problems like yours: Just do it!

Why don't you have more interest in sex, you may ask. Why should you, is my answer. It's like peanut butter. Some like it, some don't. There are a host of reasons why some people have very little sexual interest, but very few of those reasons need to prevent people from having a frequent and satisfying sexual experience.

What you describe is probably a case of low sex drive. What that means is that as far back as you can remember, you did not find yourself easily aroused sexually. You may find it very difficult to climax, you rarely fantasize about sexually arousing experiences, and, for you, sex is more pleasurable as affection than it is for sex per se.

It would mean that you do not regard sex as disgusting, nor do you get all tight inside just before you make love. Those reactions would indicate a sexual aversion which I will discuss a little later.

The solution to low sex drive is to make love only at the time of day that you have the most energy. The recommendations I made to a woman whose husband has a low sex drive (How to Meet the Need for Sexual Fulfillment (Part 2)) might apply to you. Also you might want to order the book, Female Orgasm, that I recommend in that column. I know you have already read books on the subject, but this one is written for women who don't have much interest in sex, like you.

Most of the women I've counseled report to me that the more often they make love, the higher their sex drive becomes. It is usually the opposite for most men. One suggestion would be to try to make love to your husband every day for a few weeks, with you deciding the time. I recommend that you take the superior position (top). Do it your way making the experience as enjoyable for you as possible.

I wouldn't be compulsive about it. For example, if there are occasions that you simply don't have a good opportunity to make love, skip a day. But even if you make it 3 out of 7, you will be way ahead of anything your husband was expecting.

Don't ignore the problem. Start right away and don't worry about whether he is satisfied, pay more attention to your own reactions to the situation. Make it as pleasant for yourself as possible, but do it.

If you find yourself dreading the time that you make love, you may have a serious aversion to sex, and that may be what's keeping you from having it with your husband. If that's the case, practice relaxing during early stages of love-making and don't go on to later stages unless the unpleasant tension you experience is gone. Sex therapists are usually trained in helping people overcome sexual aversion by teaching you effective methods of relaxation.

The most important thing to remember about marriage is that both you and your husband have a great opportunity and responsibility to meet each other's most important emotional needs. Learn to become experts in meeting those needs.



How to Meet the Emotional Need for
Sexual Fulfillment (Part 2)

Letter #1

Dear Dr. Harley,
I understand that men are the ones that usually want sex all the time. But what happens if I'm the one that wants it and my husband does not. I feel rejected and he's fine without it. There are times I just can't stand it because I want sex every day. But he's too tired, he tells me. When we have sex, there's fireworks, but why doesn't he want it more often? He is affectionate, we hold hands and kiss even after 2 children and 5 years of marriage. He calls me at work to tell me he loves me and I do the same. I just don't understand what the problem could be. I feel like having an affair, but I wouldn't want to disappoint God. Do you have any answers?
Frustrated
Texas


Dear Frustrated,
There are many women who have a greater desire for sex than their husbands. One of my clients wanted her husband to make love to her 3 times every day before she was satisfied. She would keep him awake at night until their third time. Other female clients have wanted to make love for hours or even days at a time. One female client wanted to make love to her husband all weekend, every weekend.
A woman's capacity to enjoy sex is far greater than a man's. While men are usually more aggressive about sex, they usually do not want it as often as women who have learned to enjoy it. When a man makes love, his sex drive usually declines immediately afterward, sometimes for a week or more. But when a woman makes love, it can actually increase her sexual interest.

But sex drive alone is not usually what motivates these women--it is their desire to be loved and accepted. Sex makes them feel desirable, and more secure in their relationship. Some of these women have tried to find men outside their marriage who would satisfy their sexual need. But in each case, there were disastrous consequences. Sex wasn't what they really needed--it was only the feeling of being loved that would satisfy them.

From the sound of your letter, you and your husband have a loving and affectionate relationship. He is undoubtedly interested in you sexually, but does not equate sex with being accepted. So for him, his sex drive is all that motivates him to make love, and that happens, for most men, about two or three times a week. In his case, it may be even less often.

One solution to your problem is to make love once a day, at a time that he has the most energy, say in the morning. Another, is to compromise: If he makes love to you every other day, he can pick the time and place, but if two days goes by without sex, at 7:30 the next morning you've got an appointment!

I think it is your need for approval and acceptance that compels you to make love as often as you can. Another important factor is that, unlike half of the married women, you have learned to enjoy sex, which makes each experience a great and inexpensive form of recreation. Don't feel that your sexual interest should be reduced, or that you should let your husband off the hook. Work out a compromise with him that gives you the sex you want in a form he enjoys. Sex is a great way to keep a marriage passionate and fun.



How to Meet the Emotional Need for
Sexual Fulfillment (Part 2)

Letter #2

Dear Dr. Harley,
There is no shortage of love, respect, support etc. in our marriage. The only missing ingredient is sex. This is not due to a lack of consideration or care, but an unfortunate lack of any physical sexuality on the part of my wife. She has never known arousal, and has no idea what it is the rest of us are talking about. She accepts the existence of the need for sex and is therefore, as a loving wife, more than happy to make her body available to me. The problem is that it turns me off. It means using her body, almost like a masturbatory aid, while she is actually in the room watching me. After it's over, she asks me if I've had a nice time. Is an affair the only way I can experience the passion of a sexually responsive woman? I have resisted it because our feelings of love and devotion are so strong. Please help me.
Desperate
England


Dear Desperate,
In His Needs, Her Needs, chapter 4, I refer the reader to a book that I have used for a number of years, Women's Orgasm: A Guide to Sexual Satisfaction by Georgia and Benjamin Graber. I include in the reference the telephone number of the Little Brown order department where you can order a copy ($4.95). It is 1-800-343-9204. Calling from England, you will have to use the USA country code. It does a good job helping women become more sexually responsive, and particularly good at teaching women to have an orgasm during intercourse.
There are a host of reasons why some women have difficulty with sexual responsiveness. Part of it is due to the fact that testosterone does not flow through their bloodstream the way it does in men. A month's supplement of the hormone from her doctor would help her understand what we men experience throughout our lifetimes.

On the other hand, if you were to take a drug, such as Prosak, your sex drive would probably be reduced, and you would have a sample of her experience.

Sometimes the problem is due to a bad relationship, and I can't rule that out in your situation even though it sounds like your relationship is okay. In a bad relationship women are not usually as generous in letting their husbands use their bodies to fulfill a sexual need.

What she seems to have trouble understanding is that your sexual need cannot be fulfilled without her sexual response. She probably thinks that by letting you have intercourse with her, your need is met.

I don't know if she likes to go shopping, but my wife certainly does. There's a great deal of difference between shopping with an enthusiastic shopper, than shopping with a bored shopper. In most cases, my wife would rather not have me along unless I enjoy shopping with her. Sex is the same way.

Since most women have a more difficult time responding sexually than men, a sex act needs to cater to a woman's desires. A man must learn how to bring a woman through the stages of the sexual response, and be careful that his own passion doesn't turn her off. Most women who are sexually responsive find a rather restricted procedure to work, and they want to do precisely the same thing over and over. Some men find it boring, but when you're in love, the fact that you are sexually aroused together usually overcomes the potential for the boredom of predictability.



Changing a Willingness to Make Love into a
Desire to Make Love
Introduction: I have received thousands of letters from couples who want to improve their sexual relationship. But the most common sexual problems are more about a bad relationship than they are about bad sexual adjustment. The solution to these common problems are to improve the relationship by eliminating Love Busters (such as demands, disrespect and anger), by making mutually beneficial decisions (Policy of Joint Agreement), and by meeting important non-sexual needs (such as affection, conversation). I address this solution in my Q&A column "What to Do When You Are Not Meeting Your Spouse's Need for Sex."

But there are a significant number of couples that struggle with sexual problems when Love Busters, lifestyle decisions and non-sexual emotional needs have already been adequately addressed. One of these problems is the issue of sexual desire, or more accurately the lack of it, among women who love their husbands.

These women are "willing" to make love because they are in love with their husbands and want to meet his need for sexual fulfillment. But since they do not share the same emotional need, they do not "desire" to make love.

When one spouse has a sexual desire, while the other is only willing to make love, a problem usually surfaces. Sex, like all other emotional needs, is fulfilled in the truest sense only when both spouses respond to each other enthusiastically. Mere willingness is often not enough. Mutual sexual desire is often necessary to provide sexual fulfillment to the one who has the need for sex.

The cover story for the May 29, 2000 issue of Newsweek Magazine was "The Science of Women's Sexuality." The lead article devoted most of its space to the fact that no one had yet come up with a solution to the problem of female sexual desire. Testosterone, the only known aphrodisiac, is plentiful in men and scarce in women, which helps explain the difference between male and female sexual desire. And after menopause, even the low levels of testosterone in women can disappear entirely.

It's been common knowledge that testosterone supplements for women (available in both oral form and patches from your doctor), raises a woman's sexual desire. In one case mentioned in the Newsweek article, "one woman unwittingly doubled her testosterone dosage and had to excuse herself every few hours just to seek relief." But there are many unwanted side-effects to testosterone (risk of heart disease and liver damage, and development of male physical characteristics such as facial hair), so medical research continues to look for a drug that does what testosterone does without those side effects.

Mary, who writes the letters for this column, finds herself in the same unpleasant position that so many other women find themselves. I don't have a simple answer, but my complex answer has worked for many women. So I am posting a series of letters we exchanged to describe the approach I suggest to help convert sexual willingness to sexual desire without the use of testosterone.




Dear Dr. Harley,
I have been married to a great man, the father of my 4 year old son, for over 11 years and we've known each other for a total of 18 years (7 years courting before we were married). Our relationship has always been great in every way and we've been the envy of all of our friends (male and female) since we started dating back in 1981. We're the best of friends! The only problem that exists and has ALWAYS existed from the beginning, is our difference in sexual appetite.

We have tried years of counseling and I've even attempted hypnotherapy for a while... to no avail. We're both only in our mid 30's and genuinely love each other. But when it comes to sex, we couldn't be more different. He always wants it and equates sex with love (and the lack-there-of with me NOT loving him) and I hardly ever want it. One could use the excuse of work and children, but I was like this even in my early 20's, way before we even wanted children, let alone had any. I have no "sexual baggage:" Never been abused or raped.

Dr., we are at our wits-end... my husband has decided to get another apartment and feels the case is hopeless. Having already been down this road a zillion times with him, I can't help but feel hopeless, too.

We've seen 2 different sex therapists (one was referred to us by the other after feeling he couldn't help us) for over 6 years. All those sessions did was dredge up sad childhood memories and made us fight a lot more than usual. Both therapists were very competent, but the problem still very much exists.

Can you help us? Or can you refer us to someone who can?

Mary




Dear Mary,
The question you ask about sexual interest has been one of the most difficult problems to solve for most sex therapists. Many that I know simply have given up on it. Others keep trying to help their clients with methods that don't work, sometimes knowing that they don't work. "Dredging up sad childhood memories," is a favorite method of some therapists that keeps a client in therapy for years, with absolutely no evidence that it ever helps solve the problem.

My guess is that within five years, a pharmaceutical company will announce a pill to increase female libido. It will take effect within one hour of its administration and its effect will last about two hours. Buy stock in that company because this aphrodisiac will become the best-selling medicine in history, and there are many, like you, who would pay almost anything for it.

But right now, the only aphrodisiac that works predictably well is testosterone, and most men have it flowing through their veins in abundance. That's why the issue of sexual interest usually focuses on women, and men who have a testosterone deficiency.

You are apparently willing to make love to your husband because you want him to be happy. But mere willingness is not doing the trick. If your husband is to feel sexually fulfilled, he wants you to desire sex, just like he desires it. As you mentioned in your letter, he interprets your sexual desire as evidence of love. Since you lack desire, he thinks you are not in love with him.

Of course, the primary reason he has sexual desire for you is that he's endowed with considerably more testosterone than you. Take that away and see how much sexual desire he will have left! And if you were to use a testosterone supplement (they come in injection, pills, creams and gels), you would notice a most impressive increase in your sexual desire for him, but your love for him would remain the same.

Because of low levels of testosterone, most women, like you, do not place sexual fulfillment among their top five emotional needs, so they tend not to "desire" making love with their husbands as much as they are "willing" to make love. One of my prime discoveries was that men and women, for whatever reasons, tend to have emotional needs in a different order of priority, so what a man needs from his wife, she usually doesn't need as much herself, and vice-versa. The trick to a great marriage is to meet an important emotional need for your spouse that may not be all that important for you.

For me as a marriage counselor, it usually means teaching a husband to be a more dynamic conversationalist, and expressing more heart-felt affection, and teaching a wife to become a better lover and recreational companion.

In your case, your husband is asking you to have a greater emotional need for sex, which would be like asking him to have a greater emotional need for whatever he would rate lowest on his list of priorities. While it can be done, to make his lowest ranking emotional need more of a desire for him, it can be achieved only by making its fulfillment more pleasurable and effortless for him. The more of an expert you would become in meeting this low-priority need, the more he would tend to desire it.

The same principle should be followed whenever a man wants his wife to desire sex: He must create the conditions that allow her to enjoy the experience effortlessly.

In spite of your hormone disadvantage, there are ways for you to desire a sexual relationship with your husband more than you do now. It's likely that you have not experienced as much sexual pleasure as you can, and that could be due to a whole host of reasons. So, to help you develop more desire for sex, I will need to show you how to enjoy sex with less effort, and to do that I need to know how you respond during the four stages of the sexual experience.

1. AROUSAL: What does it take for you to experience sexual arousal? This enjoyable experience is usually accompanied by vaginal secretion of lubricating fluid, which prepares it for intercourse. Without such physical preparation, and the emotional experience of arousal, intercourse can be quite unpleasant for a woman.

Foreplay is usually essential in bringing about sexual arousal in women, but the type of foreplay that leads to arousal varies from woman to woman. In some cases, foreplay is two hours of dynamic conversation and heartfelt affection with a heavy emphasis on kissing. For others, it is a massage that begins with non-erogenous zones and moves to sensuous touching of the breasts and genitals. For yet others, it is a romantic movie, or dancing, or listening to music together.

Whenever I've counseled women on this subject, I begin with an analysis of her erotic fantasies for clues as to what would work best to create sexual arousal, because that's essentially what an erotic fantasy is -- a form of imagined foreplay. My goal is for her to convert the fantasy into reality so that her husband can help her to become sexually aroused effortlessly and predictably. It's an essential first step in creating sexual desire for most women.

2. PLATEAU: Do you know how to reach sexual plateau? Once a woman knows how to experience sexual arousal predictably and effortlessly, the next step in my plan to create sexual desire is to reach the sexual plateau effortlessly and predictably. The sexual experience of the plateau is a more intense sexual sensation than arousal, and is accompanied by an involuntary tightening of the vagina.

Many women find that intercourse during sexual arousal can lead to the plateau when they voluntarily tighten the vagina and thrust rapidly. They also find that a certain position can greatly enhance the sexual stimulation, thereby making plateau during intercourse much easier. Some women find that oral sex is the most effective way for them to reach sexual plateau, and once they are there, intercourse sustains the plateau experience.

3. CLIMAX: Do you know how to climax? Once a woman knows how to create sexual plateau predictably, a climax is usually easy to achieve. Faster thrusting gets the job done for most women. And, unlike most men, women can have multiple orgasms, which means that they can do it many times whenever they make love.

4. RECOVERY: After you make love, does your husband spend time talking to you and showing you affection? Most women need at least 15 minutes to recover after love-making. They should be held by their husbands while the intense sexual experience subsides. If this stage is not completed correctly, she often leaves the sexual experience very frustrated and is less likely to want to repeat it.

The feeling of sexual desire prior to arousal usually depends on having a positive experience in all four of these stages whenever you make love. Your sexual experiences of the distant past would be relevant only if you had repeatedly bad experiences in one or more of these stages, but even then, you can overcome their effect by making your present experiences predictably enjoyable.

This analysis of the problem may seem somewhat clinical and unromantic to you. But I have seen some remarkable recoveries using it to create a treatment plan. If you would like, answer my questions about your experience with these four stages, and we may be able to solve this problem once and for all.

Best wishes



Changing a Willingness to Make Love into a
Desire to Make Love
Letter #2
Previous Letter

Dear Dr. Harley,
Hello and thank you for responding to my initial e-mail. Here are the answers to your questions:

Q1. AROUSAL: What does it take for you to experience sexual arousal?

A1. It usually takes a lot of work on my part to experience sexual arousal and not because my husband doesn't do his part. He's a very "giving" lover, totally unselfish. But I find that my mind is usually in a hundred other places and I find it incredibly difficult to "get into it", to get everything else out of my mind. I often think that that's my biggest hurdle. A romantic film sometimes gets me there where it actually takes my brain away for a bit. But sometimes, depending on my mood, I find romantic films annoying and I'm even further away than before I watched it. Kissing, talking, caressing are all great, but if the mood is bad... forget it! In that way, I wish very much that I was a man: able to just focus on the "urge" and nothing else.

Q2. PLATEAU. Do you know how to reach sexual plateau?

A2. Once I've begun the "act", I don't usually have any trouble staying there. I try and use my imagination (as long as no other thoughts of the day rush into my mind; that's the trick!). My husband loves oral sex and most of the time I do too. Again, sometimes given my mood, it can be either pleasurable or annoying. As for the tightening of the vagina trick, I've been doing that since my late teens (I'm 35 now) and I'm convinced it's what's helped me to achieve plateau and orgasm 95% of the time.

Q3. CLIMAX. Do you know how to climax?

A3. I almost always reach climax. I've never had any problems, as long as my "brain" is there. It might take a lot of work, but I'm thankful that when I persist, I achieve.

Q4. RECOVERY. After you make love, does your husband spend time talking to you and showing you affection?

A4. Again, my husband is a very unselfish lover. He's usually very "touchy" and loving after lovemaking. If anything he's usually the first to complain that we don't spend enough time with "after-play".

In general, Doc., I think my biggest problem is getting my mind into it before my husband brings it up and also not making it be such a "job". I find it to be so much WORK sometimes... getting the brain to cooperate is exhausting and I find myself not looking forward to it and I especially won't initiate if I've got to "work" at it.

I don't "fantasize" nearly enough. I really wish I could re-program myself and make myself think of everything in a sexual way (like most men do) all the time. Always be kind-of "prepared", you know?

I've never been raped or molested as a child and have no real "bad" sexual experiences that I can remember. I've been with the same man (my husband) for 18 years (7 years dating and 11 years married) and he's, in fact, my first and only lover!

I always thought that was the reason why I wasn't a very sexual woman: because I had never had "enough" experiences (or at least one other to use as base of comparison). My girlfriends who were much more "sexual" than me (and who were all single) would talk about all the guys they'd met and slept with and I couldn't contribute to the conversation.

I've felt like I should have dated more men, had more partners before marrying. But then again, I know I've found my true "soul mate" and I never wanted to risk losing that. My husband and I are really the best of friends. We love being with one another... maybe that's the problem? My cousin calls it "The brother - sister syndrome". Could we be compatible in every other way but NOT sexually? Or can sexual compatibility be created?

Mary




Dear Mary,
You have identified the arousal stage as the most difficult for you. So that helps me pinpoint where we need to begin in a plan to overcome your sexual problem.

My approach to your problem would be to take the "work" out of sex ("it usually takes a lot of work on my part"), and focus more attention on what it is that your husband does (or doesn't do) to help you experience it. The fact that he is a "giving" lover doesn't necessarily mean that he knows how to arouse you sexually.

Your husband probably wants sex more often, and he wants you to be sexually aroused when he makes love to you. But if getting aroused is a lot of work for you, sex will be something you try to avoid, rather than desire.

The fact that your mind wanders as you are trying to get aroused is a symptom, not a cause of the problem. Everybody's mind wanders when they are bored. Also, the fact that your girlfriends seemed more sexually oriented than you simply means that they had predictably good sexual experiences with their lovers.

Best wishes



Changing a Willingness to Make Love into a
Desire to Make Love
Letter #3
Previous Letter

Dear Dr. Harley,
Before my husband and I begin your program, I think you should know something about my background.

My first several sexual encounters with my then boyfriend (husband now) were interrupted with visions of my father's speeches: expectations of "staying pure like your mother was". All the way up until the day we married 7 years later (we're married 11 years now!).

I still remember the night of our honeymoon, my husband told me "you said after we got married, things would change! What's happening?" So you see, sex has always been an "issue" with us.

Unlike most other couples, we met and were "friends" for over a year before we started "dating". He was dating a very promiscuous girl, my luck! They'd argue all the time and I'd try and patch things up between the two (I should have been a psychiatrist!). But eventually they split one last time and my husband and I realized we could cultivate something very special being such good friends. So you see, it wasn't the old: "We met at a friend's party and our eyes met. We couldn't take our hands off each other." We've never had that kind of a relationship.

The work would be that much harder for me since he had had such a "wild" time with the girlfriends before me. I've been described as "sensitive, loving, sweet, intelligent and tame to a fault" by my husband and friends and those who know me often are shocked when I do the littlest thing out of character. Sometimes I think it is my personality that makes it difficult for me to desire sex.

We're both tired of feeling like we're just not compatible. Things will be great for a little while (usually after we've agreed to go our separate ways, we'll start realizing the finality of it and that will throw us into a passionate session of sex). But then after a week or two, we'll go back to the same old "once a week or every two weeks even" routine. He'll start to talk about "not being able to take it anymore" again and the cycle will begin again.

To him sex is an extremely important part of a marriage. Without it he doesn't feel loved or appreciated and starts envying everyone else's sex life. He's not the type to fool around (or so he says) and he stands strong on that point. So, years go by and I begin to feel like I've deprived him of a "normal" sex life. Like he's missed out on it all.

We're praying we can finally start being "wild and crazy" with one another, the way both of us want it. My husband is right: Who better to have that with but with the one you love the most and feel the safest with?

Mary




Dear Mary,
You bring up one of the strongest arguments for sexual abstinence prior to marriage. Comparisons are inevitable, and I believe that your husband's sexual experience with a promiscuous girl puts you at an unfair disadvantage. Your husband is very fortunate to have his best friend as his wife, someone willing to make love to him, and sexually responsive when she does. But his series of sexual encounters with a "wild and crazy" woman has distorted his idea of what great sex is supposed to be. Instead of appreciating your care for him, and enjoying what is actually a much better than average sexual relationship in marriage, he is ready to leave you because he cannot get you to do what the promiscuous girl did.

In fact, I believe that his comparing you with his former girlfriend may contribute greatly to your lack of sexual desire. Instead of making your sexual encounters with him effortlessly enjoyable, you are forever trying to meet the standard that his former girlfriend created. That's work!

Quite frankly, I feel the same way about pornography. Once a man is accustomed to seeing the bodies of naked 18 year old girls, his 45 year old wife's body just doesn't seem to be as attractive. It's unfair for wives to compete with other women for the sexual attention of their husbands. Once married, sex between a husband and wife should be exclusive and without comparison.

I have another question for you that will help with our plan. What does your husband want most in his sexual relationship with you? Does he want you to be more passionate or does he want sex to be more frequent?

Best wishes



Changing a Willingness to Make Love into a
Desire to Make Love
Letter #4
Previous Letter

Dear Dr. Harley,
My husband wants frequency, plain and simple. Sure he occasionally voices wanting "wilder sessions" here and there but for the most part, he's mostly unhappy about how infrequently we have sex (once a week, sometimes once every 2 weeks). I hardly ever initiate because it's hardly ever on my mind. Like I've told you in previous emails, I wish I "wanted it" more often but find it difficult to get "my head" there.

Oddly, Dr., my husband and I want the same thing: To stop having sex be such an issue. We want occasional hot, passionate sex and at other times want tender love making too. I'd love to start "wanting it" without it being brought up by my husband. How do I get there??????

Mary




Dear Mary,
You are trying too hard to "want" sex. If you simply discover a way to make your sexual encounters with your husband predictably enjoyable for you and effortless (instead of "work"), you will find yourself desiring it without even trying to desire it.

Try to discover what your husband needs to do to help you become sexually aroused more quickly and more intensely. You will need to experiment together, and I would recommend doing this at least three times a week. Remember, all you really want to do right now is learn how to become sexually aroused quickly and effortlessly.

Finding the right physical and emotional environment for you to become sexually aroused will take trial and error. You may want to take notes each night, since your memory of what worked and what didn't work can play tricks on you. Focus especially on how your husband touches you, and how that effects you sexually. Abandon techniques that don't work, and develop those that do.

Best wishes



Changing a Willingness to Make Love into a
Desire to Make Love
Letter #5
Previous Letter

Dear Dr. Harley,
I recently read an article in a women's magazine that I need to put myself "in the mood" each day in case my husband may want to make love. It mentioned "seeing things through a man's eyes". Kind of always thinking of everything in a sexual way: not just seeing a table to lay books or magazines on but to think of it as another place to have great sex. Not just sitting in a seat on the train in the subway, but thinking of it as yet another place to have great sex.

Not even just merely typing at this computer, but allowing myself to fantasize about maybe carrying on a sexy dialogue via e-mail or something.

I tried it one day and I found that it did help me to get "in the mood" easier. But the trouble is, how does one think that way around kids? When your 3 year old wants attention, for you to play with him or feed him. Or if you're stressed at your job, how do you keep focused on sex?

It makes sense that if you think of things in a certain way all the time, of course you're kind of "ready" when that subject is brought up. But since it's not part of you to always think this certain way, it's not innate, it seems like there would be so much energy spent on one thing, like it would be too much work. Can it really work?

If someone works at thinking about one thing all the time, wouldn't you eventually get tired of it? And isn't it easier to lose your focus on something if you're forced to think about it so much? I would think distractions are more welcomed.

My mind wanders more now since we have a 3-year old to take care of, but I don't feel like I could blame being a mother for my lack of libido. Yes, it's compromised even more so, but the initial problem is not because of the baby. Did I maybe, miss that stage where the hormones are raging and you've got to have it all the time? Can I get it back? I want it!!!

Last night was the perfect example: After having a nice family day at the Museum and then putting my little one to sleep at 9:00 pm, I should have been "ready" because I wasn't stressed or tired from a long day at the office. I followed my husband to the bedroom (he'd turned off the TV and all the lights at 9:30!) and I climbed into bed expecting that proverbial "tap on the shoulder". Instead, I think he waited (and probably prayed) that I'd initiate, and since I didn't he rolled over and went to sleep. I certainly did nothing to change that. But I wish I had! I wish I had it in me to climb on top of him and "demand" it! I understand his frustration of having to constantly bring sex up: he's tired of it and, quite frankly, so am I.

When will this subject ever NOT be such an issue!!??

Mary




Dear Mary,
You are making the solution to your problem much more difficult than it needs to be. Men tend to think about sex much of the time because of testosterone. The thinking about sex doesn't prepare them for sex, it's the testosterone that does it.

To be in the mood for sex, a woman does not need to think of her husband all day long. But she does need to be away from her children and with her husband long enough to connect emotionally with him. My experience is that two or three hours are usually enough, but the formula varies with each woman.

You say that your passion for your husband never was very high, but that may be due to what you did together, even when you were dating. We need to discover how your husband can trigger sexual arousal in you. You didn't have a child back then so the distraction of children can't be the whole story.

I'll go back to one of the earlier points I made with you where I noted that most women in love with their husbands are "willing" to make love, but do not "desire" to make love to their husbands. That's because testosterone gives men a jump-start, which gives them desire prior to the woman's interest in sex. In most male-female relationships, after an evening of conversation and affection, the man initiates the sex act by kissing her and touching her in ways and places that are already known to arouse her sexually. Because she is willing to make love due to the environment that the evening created, but does not yet desire sex because of her lack of testosterone, his kissing and touching her is crucial in "getting her in the mood." And where and how to touch is usually discovered through trial and error. Once a man knows how a woman likes to be kissed and touched to be sexually aroused, their sexual experience is off to a good start.

You are still thinking that it's your sole responsibility to get yourself in the mood to make love. I suggest that your husband has more to do with it than you do. He has the testosterone, you don't. So he should take the initiative every time for the foreseeable future, and "tap you on the shoulder." Waiting for you to take the initiative assumes you have already solved your problem and you already have a sexual desire. Quite frankly, even after you experience desire, he may still need to take the initiative, particularly if he wants to make love two or three times a week.

For the next few months you and he will need to engage in considerable trial and error before you figure it out. I suggest that you focus on sexual arousal at least three times a week when you go to bed. Try to figure out what your husband can do to make you feel aroused quickly and easily. His taking the initiative may be a very important first step in getting you through that stage.

Best wishes



Changing a Willingness to Make Love into a
Desire to Make Love
Letter #6
Previous Letter

Dear Dr. Harley,
My husband and I continue to have long periods of time where we are not intimate (in fact we're going on three weeks now since the last time we made love). He still wants it more than I do, and I still want to want it more!!!

But HOW!!!!????? I adore him and appreciate his wonderful attributes... why can't I want to show him (the way every man wants to be shown)???!!! Can't somebody help me desire my husband before he decides to leave me for another more sexual woman!??

Help!!

Mary




Dear Mary,
In the last letter I sent, I encouraged you and your husband to experiment with love-making fairly frequently (at least 3 times a week) where he would try various ways to arouse you sexually. He would take the initiative in all of these exercises, and the purpose would be to discover how and where on your body his touch would create a sexual feeling (for most women, touch is the most sexually arousing thing a man can do for her, but the most effective places and sequence vary from woman to woman). Until you have a predictably good experience every time you make love, don't expect to feel like taking the initiative -- your willingness to make love is all that's needed right now.

Your husband needs to get into the habit of initiating sex with you, and you need to train him how to do it in a way that will predictably arouse you. One problem you seem to have is that he assumes that you will do the initiating. When you don't initiate sex, he feels rejected. I strongly recommend that you make it very clear to him that he will be initiating sex for the next three months, and that he do it with the purpose of learning how to make sexual arousal almost effortless for you. Where does he touch you, and how do you react to it? Both of you should experiment with various approaches to getting you sexually aroused after the kids are in bed.

Women do initiate sex sometimes, it's true. But the most common experience is for the man to do most of the initiating. And he has the unenviable job of having to learn how to do it right. Men don't like rejection any more than women, and after a man fails to arouse a woman, he gets gun-shy. That may be why your husband wants you to do the initiating, because if you initiate sex, he knows he won't be rejected. And your failure to be aroused may be interpreted by him as rejection. The solution, of course, is for him to remain a student until he gets it right, and try to overlook his sensitivities for this period of learning.

You indicated in one of your earlier letters that your husband's primary goal is to make love more often. By following my advice, he will have his wish, while he is learning how to become a better lover. Try to have some kind of sexual experience with him as often as possible, at least three times a week. Women tend to be more sexually responsive when it is frequent and predictable and done the right way, so you may eventually find yourselves making love every night before you go to sleep. In the meantime, I suggest you make love frequently and predictably, and eventually you will learn to do it the right way. Begin this week to experiment with various methods of foreplay and record your reaction to them.

You are willing to make love to your husband because you love him, but you have no desire to make love because whenever you do, it's usually more work than it's worth. If you and your husband can figure out how to make your sexual arousal and climax more effortless, and more predictable, you will find yourself desiring it more often, because you will look forward to sexual enjoyment with very little effort. That's what makes anything desirable -- the anticipation of an enjoyable experience.

There's no substitute for the trial and error it will take for you to learn how to make your love making sexually arousing to you in a predictable and effortless way.

Get started tonight, and don't let yourselves give up if it takes a while to find the right combination. My experience has been that once a woman figures out what it takes for her husband to arouse her sexually, she has it for life.

Best wishes



Changing a Willingness to Make Love into a
Desire to Make Love
Letter #7
Previous Letter

Dear Dr. Harley,
I had my husband read your last e-mail and it set the stage for a deep discussion about the whole subject. I'm glad to see that he's finally understanding that it's a common issue and that it's not that I don't "desire" HIM, but that I just don't desire SEX (as much as he does).

We've been trying to have "more frequent sex" as you suggested this week and, so far, it's been (for the most part) fun. I've been able to stay focused and it hasn't felt like too much work on my part.

It's only been a week though, and have experienced this part in the cycle with him before. We just hope it can last!!!

Mary




Dear Mary,
I'm going to check in with you from time to time to make sure you are following the program. Remember not to let everyday "crises" get you off schedule because it will break the habits you are developing. Your husband must take the initiative each time, and you must help him figure out how to make your sexual arousal effortless. Try not to refuse him, even if you are not in the mood. The point of the exercises is to figure out what it takes to get you in the mood without you doing any of the work. If what your husband wants is more frequent love-making, there is no substitute for making it predictably easy and enjoyable.

And try to experience sexual arousal without "staying focused." You still make it sound like a lot of work.

Best wishes



Letter #8



Dear Dr. Harley,
Thanks for checking in with me.

We've been following the program you recommended and last week, from my husband's lips, we experienced some of the best love-making sessions we've had in a while. I'll be honest with you, I think it was mostly due to the "time of the month". But I was definitely more receptive and lubricated and was enjoying myself very much.

I'll keep you abreast of the progress we make...

Mary



How to Overcome Pain During Intercourse
Letter #1

Introduction: The first three letters I post are a sampling of experiences of women who suffer from painful intercourse, and my answer covers all three of their situations. The fourth letter posted describes a woman who has overcome the pain, but has not made a good sexual adjustment after the symptoms ended. My answer to that letter explains how to overcome the effect of having tried to have sex under conditions of extreme pain.




Dear Dr. Harley:
In reading your August 26th Q&A, Preparing for Marriage, you tell E.C. that failing to meet your spouses needs opens the door for an affair. I hate to hear you say that! I have been having problems for several months now and my doctor believes I may have endometriosis. One of the problems I have been having is very, very painful intercourse. Therefore, my husband's needs are very hard for me to meet. We have tried other outlets other than intercourse, but it doesn't seem to be enough for him. How can I get him to understand that intercourse really does hurt a lot!!! He thinks I am faking or that I am having an affair because I don't want sex with him. It just plain hurts and I don't want to do it very often. Our marriage is deteriorating fast because of this and also a few other factors. He's making it very hard for me to love him! Any suggestions?

R.D.



Dear Dr. Harley,
My husband and I have been married for almost two years. We are very much in love, we enjoy each other's company, and we have a solid commitment to our marriage. The problem has been our sex life. Both of us were virgins when we got married. Although my husband has been an extremely patient lover, from the very first night of our honeymoon, sex has been an ordeal for us. Sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. Almost every time we attempt to make love, I get very nervous and it is painful for me. A few times in the last two years, we have had wonderful, spontaneous sex. I have switched birth-control pills and tried relaxing before sex, but it seems that arousal is difficult because I anticipate the pain. I have no history of abuse (of any kind), and I very much want to have sex that will drive my husband wild! What can I do?

A.P.



Dear Dr. Harley,
I have a problem. Whenever I have sex, it hurts. Sometimes, after we are finished, blood shows up in my underwear. Do you have any idea what could be causing the problem. I am going to get to a doctor, but I would like to prepare myself before I get there.

C.D.



Dear R.D., A.P. and C.D.,
A good sexual rule of thumb is, Don't have intercourse if it's painful. If you ever experience pain during intercourse, stop. Then, see a doctor to help you determine the cause of the pain and help you overcome the problem. When the physical cause of the pain is eliminated, go back to having intercourse painlessly and enjoyably. To do otherwise invites disaster.

It's true that when important emotional needs, such as sexual fulfillment, are unmet, there is a risk for an affair. But having sex at all costs is not the solution. In fact, if you follow my Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse) you would never have sex in a way that's painful to you. Instead, you would pursue painless sexual options until you have resolved the problem.

Most women throughout most of their lives experience no pain whatsoever when they have intercourse. The vagina is designed for intercourse, and works very well for that purpose under most conditions. But, once in a while, most women do experience pain during intercourse. And when they do, they should identify and treat the problem before having intercourse again.

There are primary and secondary causes of vaginal pain during intercourse. The primary causes are those that are responsible for the initial pain or discomfort. Secondary causes are those that are created by the pain itself if intercourse continues, and they can trigger vaginal pain long after the primary causes have been overcome.

Primary Causes of Vaginal Pain

One of the most common primary causes of vaginal pain during intercourse is a dry vagina. Usually, when a woman is sexually aroused, fluids are secreted in the vagina that keep the lining well lubricated. But if a woman is not sexually aroused, or if fluids are not secreted for some other reason, intercourse can cause very painful damage to the vaginal lining. And in some cases, the lining of the vagina can actually tear, resulting in post-intercourse bleeding.

There are two ways to avoid a dry vagina during intercourse. The first is to avoid intercourse until you are sexually aroused. The second way is to use an artificial water-based vaginal lubricant, such as K-Y jelly, Vagisil Intimate Moisturizer, or Replens Vaginal Mosturizer, as a substitute or backup for natural lubricant.

Since vaginal secretion is usually an indication of a woman's sexual interest, I usually recommend that intercourse wait until she experiences sexual arousal and natural lubrication. I want couples to avoid getting into the habit of sex that's passionless for her. But if natural secretion is an unreliable indicator of your sexual arousal, I would certainly recommend an artificial lubricant.

If you're not sure if a dry vagina is the cause of your pain, use an artificial lubricant once. If there is no pain under those conditions, then you have proof that it's the cause of your distress.

Another common cause of vaginal discomfort during intercourse is bacterial infection. This occurs frequently in women, and an antibiotic will generally cure the problem within a week or so. A related problem is bladder infections. While the problem may be in the bladder or urethra, not in the vagina, it often causes discomfort during intercourse.

A visit to your doctor will identify and treat a bacterial infection so that you will have minimal interruption in your sexual fulfillment. But be sure to make the appointment as soon as intercourse is uncomfortable. Otherwise it can develop into a secondary cause of vaginal pain that I will explain later.

There are other diseases that can cause pain or discomfort during intercourse. Vaginal endometriosis is one of them. When your doctor examines you for possible bacterial infection, be sure to ask him or her about endometriosis, because it is often overlooked during an examination. Your doctor examination will also be able to check for any vaginal tumors or venereal diseases that may be causing your discomfort. These problems may take longer to treat than bacterial infections, but whatever the problem turns out to be, don't have intercourse until it has been overcome.

If you have experienced vaginal bleeding after intercourse, your doctor should also be able to identify its source, and treat it for you. Sometimes a scratch or tear in the lining caused by something other than intercourse can be the cause of your problem.

It is very important for you to be comfortable with regular pelvic examinations. Otherwise you may let a medical problem become so far advanced that it causes you permanent injury. If you are embarrassed to see a male doctor, find a female doctor. But whatever you do, don't let your inhibitions prevent you from experiencing painless intercourse.

If your doctor can identify the source of your vaginal discomfort, don't have intercourse until the problem is treated and overcome to his or her satisfaction. Some problems can be treated in a week or less, while others, like endometriosis may take months to overcome.

If you are unable to have intercourse during treatment for a vaginal disease, that doesn't mean you'll be forcing your husband to rush off to have sex with someone else. I suggest that your husband be informed by your doctor of what it is you are going through, and how you will be treated. A major problem you may face is your husband's failure to see your sexual reluctance for what it is: vaginal pain brought on by a physical cause. If he doesn't believe you when you explain that it's the pain that makes you reluctant, his ignorance puts your sexual relationship, and probably your marriage as well, at risk. But once he understands the nature of the problem, and knows that it isn't an affair or some other emotional cause, he will be happier with alternatives to intercourse while you wait for your treatment to take effect.

In some cases, a husband's thoughtlessness is remembered long after the painful symptoms are gone. If your husband tries to force you to have painful intercourse with him and threatens you if you do not cooperate, your memories of his insensitivity will be a far greater barrier to your future sexual relationship than your disease ever could have been. Don't let him create those barriers to your future together. Insist that there be no sex unless you enjoy the experience with him. It's not only in your best interest, but in his best interest too. If you go ahead and try to make love when it's painful to you, you may have a very difficult time making love to him in the future.

A Secondary Cause of Vaginal Pain

But what should you do if you eliminate the primary causes, and you still experience vaginal pain? Or, what if your doctor finds no physical cause for your discomfort during intercourse? That can be very discouraging to most women, who begin to think that it's all in their heads. If the pain is not physically caused, then it must be psychological, right?

Not necessarily. In fact, most cases of persistent vaginal discomfort are not due to primary causes at all, but rather to a reflex called vaginismus. It's not psychological or emotional, it's very physical. Vaginismus is a painful reflex that is created in association with a primary cause of vaginal pain. In other words, if you experience vaginal pain from any one of the primary causes I've mentioned, vaginismus can develop secondarily. And long after the primary cause is ended, the vaginismus can persist.

This reflex responds to stimulation of the vaginal opening. If you suffer from vaginismus, you will notice it most whenever you first try to insert something into your vagina. The opening involuntarily contracts and pain is immediately felt. In extreme cases, the contraction is so tight that nothing can penetrate it.

From this description, you can see how it would interfere with intercourse. Regardless of how sexually aroused you might be, or how lubricated your vagina might be, as soon as you try to insert your husband's penis, you would experience excruciating pain. And it may be difficult to insert his penis, because the vaginal opening would be constricted. In some cases, it has been impossible to insert a penis.

Naive couples often don't know what to make of vaginismus. Some of my clients believed it was God's punishment for their having sex before marriage. Others have blamed it on the sins of their parents. But whatever its cause, it certainly feels like punishment for something. Only after I was able to explain the cause of the reflex and then helped them eliminate it, did they realize that sin has nothing to do with it.

There is a tried and proven way to overcome the vaginismus reflex, and if you follow this procedure, I guarantee your success. I recommend that you follow the exercises I recommend in the privacy of your bathroom, or when you are alone in the house. Your husband should not be included until the later sessions.

First, you determine how strong the reflex is and what triggers it. The way to determine its strength is to insert your finger into the vaginal opening to see what happens. If there is no reaction to your finger, insert something increasingly wider, like candles, until you can trigger the reflex. It will be an involuntary contraction of the opening as you try to insert the object, and it will be painful.

Notice how large the object must be before the reflex is triggered, and how tight the opening gets. The smaller the triggering object, and the tighter the opening, the more difficult it will be to extinguish the reflex. If you can't get your finger into the opening without extreme pain, you have a very well developed case of vaginismus. But regardless of its intensity, it can be eliminated.

The way to eliminate this reflex is to set aside a few minutes each day, preferably several times a day, to expose the opening of your vagina to penetration without triggering the reflex. I

Thanks Jim, I'm reading through this advice.

No replies from anyone else, eh? I would have thought the word SEX in the subject line would get some attention.

NS

NS,

My take on SF and women not meeting the men's ENs in this area is probably going to rock your world.

WE ARE TIRED.

Not an earth shattering, highly difficult concept here. But let me elaborate, so you can maybe figure out some steps to take to get her where she needs to be, and you can get what you want. Your taker will be happy, but your giver has to pony up.

Warning - I am speaking in generalities, and your results and experiences may vary!

Women tend to be givers for the most part. We go to work, and we help our office mates, our customers, our partners, our clients, our bosses. We give all day at work. We get up in the morning, and we give to our husbands in terms of having his clothes clean, making sure things are ready for him to go to work. We give to our kids in the morning to get them off to school, to day care, or wherever they are going. We tend to make ourselves last.

We are the person who keeps the house going. We get home and clean the house, fix the dinner, check the laundry, make sure the papers are signed for school, the cupcakes are ready for the little party the next day, the ribbons for the hair will match the dress tomorrow, all those little giving things. We do it all day long.

Along comes bedtime, and we give to the little ones, our time and love and get them snuggled safely into bed, and go back downstairs to catch a moment of peace before thinking about our own time for bed. And our husbands want us to give that one more time - for sex.

And we say "no". Not because it isn't pleasurable, or fun, or intimate. Because we are tired, and our giver is done giving.

Plain and simple.

What we have missed in the whole thing here is that sex can be RECEIVING.

I asked my FWH this question, and was not surprised by his answer:

"Do you think of sex as something you give a woman?"

He said, "No. I never would have said I call it something I give. I guess I would say it is something I share with her."

If you ask a woman, "Do you think of sex as something you give a man?", many women will say, "yes". We do see it as giving - we have to really think twice before we catch ourselves and realize that it is sharing. Which it is, of course. But when you are tired, and you do so much every day, you just don't see it as that - too often it becomes something different..........

It becomes someone asking you to do something for them.

Now, let's view your post - from that perspective.

How often did you come at Sexual Fulfillment from the perspective that it was something that your wife did for you?

And how often did you come at it as something you did

FOR HER?

Make that change - go home, YOU clean the house. YOU do a load of laundry. YOU go through the backpacks and sign the schoolwork and papers. YOU get the kids a bath. YOU do the dishes, clean the kitchen, and all the rest. YOU change the sheets on the bed.

YOU do this, or at least join her in 50% of it for about 3 months - and make it a daily habit - don't complain about it, and put your heart into it (because she does, it is how she loves you and your children). Once you start doing this, and your giver approaches SF from the standpoint of what you can do FOR her - watch that action increase.

Take some of the housework off the table. Make it something that isn't work for her, isn't something that is "one more person asking her to give one more thing of herself". And make her remember that you SHARE sex - that it is all about receiving as much as giving. But, you have to be the giver first, because she might not remember that with you right now.

SB

I think the above post has a lot of truth to it but sadly if you are the husband it does not bode well for you. I don't post a lot because of my bias on some things but I did want to respond.

As the above post points out many women will neglect their husbands need for SF because it is not important to them. My wife was that way and if I would have neglected her needs I would not have been married very long. Many women do not look at SF as important to them so it is not important in a marriage. My wife told me this. But somehow it was important to go out and do it with another guy so I guess it has some value.

I think the above post is a very good one from the female point of view and gives you a very good view into your WW mind. On the other hand when you read it there is one thing that is very wrong.

It is more important to a lot of women to support other people but neglect a husbands SF needs. You were not having your needs met for years but you did not cheat. Your wife did and it is very hard to overcome the lack of SF in a marriage.

My XW was always angry at me and neglected me for years no matter what I did. I gave up when she had sex with another guy.

Many women have financial support as a big need. Try cutting that off and see how she reacts. The sad part of all of this is my XW would gladly meet my needs now if I would allow her. It is amazing how her attitude changed when I grew a backbone and decided to cut off all of her funding.

I just wish she would not have slept with another guy. If your wife is so tired then she should not have had the energy to sleep with another guy yet she did. If she does not have that time or energy for you why be married.

People treat you how you allow them to treat you. Good luck! I hope you can overcome all of this.

Great post, IHE.

I agree very much with IHadEnough, in that many women just don't seem to understand how important SF is to men. Or give a damn. I know that when our MC told us that SF was a top need of men, I BURST OUT LAUGHING! I couldn't believe he would actually ADMIT that men were so "shallow."

But that is how I had been brainwashed to think, that sex was all about being shallow, therefore, men's needs were silly and shallow.[mine were extremely important, though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />] Please note here that I ruined TWO marriages with this kind of selfish thinking. I viewed meeting my H's needs as an OPTION. It took two divorces and a whole lot of learning to WAKE MY [censored] UP and I fear many women are doomed to learn this lesson the hard way.

No, there is a different standard between men and women. Men are EXPECTED to meet her needs or he is a heartless, deatbeat bum who will be quickly kicked out. What is a woman when she doesn't feel like having sex or conversing with her H? A poor tired little "victim," of course. Women only meet needs when they feel like it. It is an OPTION. With men it is an EXPECTATION. An EXPECTATION with men, an OPTION with women. Not too fair, if you ask me.

If men's needs are not met, they fall out of love. If women's needs are not met, they fall out of love. That is how it works. Women can't credibly demand their own needs be met when they dismiss those of men. I am sure men "feel tired" of going to work every day, but let one suggest he only go to work when he "feels" like it and come home with half a paycheck. No woman would tolerate that crap. And shouldn't.


Notsleeping, I would be honest with your W about this issue, once she gets through withdrawal, and help her understand that SF is an emotional need that is just as important as her own emotional needs. A good way to introduce this subject is for both of you to take the emotional needs questionaire. Explain to her Dr Harley's concept of falling in love and staying in love by meeting each other needs. [it really does work!]

If she is interested at all in having a good marriage, this should change if a) she has an understanding of the importance of your needs and b) she feels in love with you because her needs are met.

You might even think about having a couple of counseling sessions with Steve Harley to kick start this effort and get on the right track. As Dr. Harley, his father, stated in the article above, he can usually resolve this problem when he addresses the RELATIONSHIP ISSUES:


I thought that was a very, very telling quote.

IHE and Mel - things of beauty. Thank you!

If I may:

I have heard women say over and over and over again that they do not initiate affection with their husbands because they know he will immediately turn it into a gropefest and push as hard as he can to make it a sexual encounter.

This is an enormous turnoff to women and they do respond by simply avoiding him.

Let the vicious circle begin.

Guys, if you want more sex from your woman, try lots and lots of *non-sexual* touching. Try it for a week and see what happens. You will be amazed, I promise you.
Mulan

I think my point was missed.

Nowhere did I say that sex was not important.

Nowhere did I say that meeting the EN of SF was not important.

In fact, I pointed out that women tend to miss the fact that sexual fulfillment should be RECEIVING as well as GIVING.

The point of my post was that many women tend to view sex as something they GIVE, and that they view it as mostly a process of giving of the self. By the time their night ends, they are tired of the "giving" process - and their husbands end up on the losing end of that deal, because they are second-to-last in line (the woman herself is actually last, because many women never take care of this need for themselves, rather, they almost ignore it!).

The idea that sex is an EXPECTATION for men is a very interesting and accurate point - and the first post here makes it quite well. NotSleeping laments that his wife does not meet his needs.....but did not speak much of meeting hers. Not a slam to NS, but just an observation. My own FWS and I have discussed this issue.

Although I am not a WS, I suspect that part of the need met by the OP was likely the idea that the OP was willingly a giver, and met the needs of the taker in my WH. I hate that I wasn't as available to him as I should have been - I know that I am guilty of being the wife who didn't offer up my own body as often as he needed "preventive maintenance" or wanted it.

But by his own admission, he also wasn't too concerned that his giver was the person who sat next to me on the sofa, either. The taker certainly was there all the time - the one with the expectations............the giver, I'm not so sure I met him until recently. Maybe every now and then, when I complained???? And let's face it, this is a topic that isn't easy to discuss.

I think many marriages end up heading toward affairs because of this very issue. Yet, we cannot discuss it. I know mine did. I certainly wanted to meet his needs - yet, that sense of "demand", "expectation", and "taker", yes, it is a BIG turn off.

Sometimes, I asked, "what's in it for me?"

Example: He would offer a back rub. Sometimes I would turn it down, because he didn't want to GIVE me a back rub. He wanted me to GIVE HIM sex. I would say, "No thanks, I always seem to get scre**d out of my back rub." You see, it was a request for me to give, wasn't it? That was how I saw it.

Personally, I know that SF is not all giving. I know it is sharing. But it has taken a change in my H, and in me, and some heavy lifting on his part to make things different. He sees his part in the giving now, and I see my part in the frequency. It makes all the difference.

On a side note:
Wouldn't it have been really nice, just once, to get that back rub? And only the back rub? Just one time in 32 years?



SB

That's what I was trying to say in my post above, SB.
Mulan

Mulan,

I loved your post. It is exactly what I think too. Women need "romance". That means something different to women than to men. To me, it's really simple:

touch my face
sit close to me for awhile
brush my hair
stop on your way home by the side of the road and pick me some wildflowers
make me some toast and put the butter on it for me
share a cup of hot tea with me
turn off the TV and tell me the last joke you heard
buy me something you think is sexy, take me out to dinner, and ask me to wear it underneath

You get the idea. Nothing is expensive - most of the things don't cost a dime.

Mulan is right - the touch not necessarily being sexual. It's about how you are connecting to her - sex is as much in a woman's head as it is in her...well, you know.

SB

Well, that is because he is discussing his needs now and that is ok. He did state that he understands he hasn't felt like meeting her needs, so he is aware that the deprivation of SF has effected his own contribution to his marriage.

I think that getting needs met are expectations in all marriages. However, many women, generally speaking, believe it is optional whether they meet those needs or not. It is certainly the case in NS marriage from the sound of it. But for many women it IS an expectation that their husband earns a living. I don't think that most men feel this is an OPTION, though. And certainly not women.

I understand that many women are "tired," as you say, but so are men. They work just as hard as we do, if not harder. We just tend to whine about it a little more than guys. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> But being "tired" does not absolve men from going to work and earning money.

The point is that they both have to find time and energy for their marriage and she needs to understand how important his needs are. Our coworkers, friends, etc, have to take second place to our marriage if it is going to survive.


Is it wrong for him to ask you to have sex with him? Do you not love to GIVE to your husband? I think that was a pretty creative, romantic way to initiate sex myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I sure want to thank ML for her post, it was outstanding and she got exactly what I was getting at.

Men and women have different standards and expectations. If you don't believe me watch Oprah or any show like that and watch how they treat a man who is a WS. Not one time on TV have I ever seen a man portrayed as a victim while they were having an affair. When they have women on who have cheated you will hear "He just was not there for me" and the women will nod in agreement. The female WS is given much more sympathy.

I hear what you are saying regarding not wanting a grope fest but I bet when his wife was with the OM it was a big grope fest. It is amazing that a WS will go to great links to do that with the OM but be too tired for their spouse. But I am sure she was not too tired to spend his paycheck and expect him to meet his financial obligations.

A lot of wives use sex as a weapon. His WW did not cheat because he did not meet her needs because if that was the cause he would have cheated on his wife for her years of neglect but he chose not too.

I recommend getting professional help. I did go to a counselor with my wife and she was very good. She did seem to get thru to my wife on this kind of neglect but I could not get her to realize this until I fell out of love with her. My wife thought my SF needs were BS and she told me this. She did not have the same SF needs but then again she was getting them met by another guy. I find it ironic that my SF needs were stupid (her words) but she was making sure hers were being met on the side.

Also don’t accept neglect. I can’t tell you how much happier I am not having to beg for sex from a person that I had supported and gave so many things too. If you accept the behavior nothing will change.

I accept my part in the end of my marriage. If I would not have allowed her to treat me that way things may not have gotten so bad. I think she thought that even if I found out about her affair I would not do anything about it.

What did I learn? To treat your spouse with respect and dignity, but also expect that your spouse do the same for you.

Again, best of luck and get professional help. I tried some of the things the ladies suggested and your wife will probably just assume (maybe correctly) that you’re just doing it for sex. It will only get you frustrated and resentful.

Mel & IHE,

Good conversation and right on target! Lack of SF and so-so quality when we do is the #1 reason our M isn't recovering fully and why we're not going from good to great IMHO). It's not the phys part of it, that can be taken care of with some PM, it's the connection, acceptance and bonding part that grounds me and makes me want to be the best H I can be, in all areas. We talk about this but it still goes no where, I attribute it to the poison that was the A and from the OM (I believe NC still in place).

Very frustrating that the M has become almost platonic. I wish my W got it like you seem to Mel.

V/r,
No way

I guess I just need to chime in on this one. I understand to a degree the H's need for SF. I'm a woman, not a man. However, it seems that his EN of SF outranks all needs of both spouses. It seems that if that need is not met, all he$$ breaks loose.

So for a scenario...Let's say my top need is domestic support. Let's say we've agreed that his part is taking out the trash and doing dishes. Well let's say that it's 11pm and the dishes are in the sink and there is a trash bag that's needs to go out. I ask him nicely to get those things accomplished. He's tired. So should I expect him to jump up with a smile on his face and enthusiastically say "sure Honey, I'll do it right away" and enjoy doing it even though it's 11pm and he's tired. Is that how he should respond? Is that how most men respond to their W's needs?
Mine doesn't. Most likely he will say, "I'll do it tomorrow".

I don't go upstairs and lose sleep. And I don't feel less loved. That EN of mine is just as important as his. Right?

So yes I get the importance of EN's and I try my darndest to meet them. But there has to be some balance and acceptance of physical limitations.

Just my .02.

I agree, Michele, but in NS' case the reason is because his spouse doesn't care, and he RARELY, if ever, has SF. I don't think, though, that SF outranks all other EN's, I think FINANCIAL SUPPORT does. If a H said he was too tired to go to work and didn't care, all hale would break loose. That would not be tolerated for 2 seconds. He would be called a stinking bum and kicked to the curb. If a woman cuts a man off from sex, it is often because she is overworked or some other excuse.

A person who is consistently "too tired" to participate in a marriage and rarely or NEVER meets her partners needs shows a lack of caring for their spouse. No one feels like it all the time, that goes without saying, but in NS's situation it is not because she is "tired," but because she doesn't CARE.

I think one of the reasons that SF is such an important need is because it is a bonafide PHYSICAL NEED. All EN's are important, but some are clearly more important than others. If my H doesn't provide FS, then lights get cut off, etc. If SF need doesnt' get met, the person suffers physical misery and is often reduced to masturbation. When the trash doesnt' get taken out, it is no big deal, it can be taken out in the morning. It gets done, in other words. The lights aren't cut off and no one lays there at night in physical misery.

ML,

When my WW has recovered enough that I can start referring to her as my FWW, I'm having her talk to you. I was reduced to a twice a month (and I'm 26, I could easily handle twice a night) before I stopped meeting her ENs, and low and behold, six weeks later she started having an EA with a coworker (which developed into a PA).

I share a somewhat similar experience, before we got married and in the early part of our marriage why wife would regularly initiate sex with me as often as I would with her. She would take care of my needs too by doing things that felt good to me.However that stated to change where I ws initiated all of the sexual intimacy and none of my needs were being met except for the climax at the end. I always make he climax by various means before i climax myself and she never ever does any of the things she used to. Although we have sex I still feel used or rejected in order to only fulfill her needs.

I recently found out about my wifes affair with a coworker and we are beginning the very early stages of recovery and identifying our unmet needs. The one question I have is how and and what point do I allow myself to be intimate with my wife without saying I can't because all I see and think about is her with the other guy, the things they did, the things they said to each other, how she felt, and how I am ever going to get beyond that. I know if i was the one that cheated she would probably never want to be intimate with me. I feel like it is like sleeping with that other person also. It disgusts me and I am affraid to let myself get back to the emotional part of having sex with her. I want to experience making love to her in a way that will erase the memory or comaprison I have in my head about the other guy, anyone can have sex. Please advise I am torturing myself

What do you mean, "fly solo"?????

You've never masturbated with your wife beside you? Why isn't she in the cockpit with you?