I started a thread in Just found out and a few nice ppl sent me here.

You can get all the details there if u wish to respond.

Status now is unknown. For Two months W has been unable to make a decision on M or "living on her own".

OM I don't believe(I've talked with him) will leave his family and lied to W about that during the EA. I have continued reading more, HNHN, DB, 5 languages, and Women's Infidelity. trying to learn more about me and to discover more about this alien I'm living with.

I am getting much better about being needy and emotional with her in the last few weeks. Have stopped discussing R.
W on the otherhand discusses R and we always end up crying and she feels guilt for my pain and unable to forgive herself.

Still no "In Love" at all.

I found out last week that instead of NC since 10-24, there had been contact just after Thanksgiving. They discussed current marrital status and that OMW wanted OM to transfer if my W wasn't going to quit.

W doesn't want to quit because she would need the high income if things don't work out in M.

Transfer does no good as he would be transferring 200 yards from our front door.

W says I am doing everything perfect and doesn't know why "intimate" feeling isn't returning.

W doesn't understand the addiction and time withdraw will take after NC.

Problem now is she mentioned getting her own place in January if we didn't stop bleeding on each other and she could figure herself out.

Where should I go with NC and where with seperation?

I am deeply in love with W, and have now realized I don't "need" her, but want her.

Her alchoholism, bulemia, BPD, and being 8 hours from her family all complicate this even more.

Hi Sunsetter -

Hopefully some of the vets will be along shortly to help you out. In the meantime, here are few thoughts:



She's not feeling intimate because she's still in contact with OM. As long as she's in contact with OM, she can't commit to your marriage. As long as she is not able to commit, she's not going to want to quit her job because she'll need the money to live on her own.

Continue to press for NC. It is an absolutely necessary pre-requisite before you can even think about recovery.

It has to come from her. She has to be committed to NC - which means she has to place the needs of your marriage above her own needs and wants.

Have you done any exposure? What pressure are you bringing to end the affair? Have you talked to OMW? Sounds like she's onboard with breaking up the affair.

Do not, under any circumstance, leave your home. If she wants to separate, let her. That's her choice. You stay in your home with your family.

I do appriciate your response. I feel at a major crossroads and am hopelessly unsure what to do.

I have not spoken with OMW. I know how to contact her but have not.

How do I pressure W for NC while following Plan A? Or did I just answer my question. How does it come from her if I pressure her for it?

What do I do if she refuses to quit the job?

I haven't brought any pressure other than asking her to tell me if there is contact. I monitor her cell records each month, but they could be calling on land lines at work.

You cannot force her to do anything. But if you contact the other man's wife and expose the affair, he will most likely drop your wife like a hot potato.

Hello Beleiver.

So by telling OMW that they are still in contact and that OM transferring isn't an option since it would be right accross the street, he is just gonna walk away at his work?

If so great if she can then decide she wants to quit. But can she even make that call while in the "fog"?

sunsetter, you need to tell the OMW TODAY and tell her about the affair. That may disrupt the affair. If not, then you will want to start exposing at the workplace, parents, etc. Exposure is your most potent tool.

Her alcoholism does complicate things for sure, but you can at least do some things to bust up the affair and then work on that aspect.

Thank you ML.

Both of our family's know about it, except her father. Probably disastourous for W and M if he found out. Very abusive and an alchohlic.

She just keeps telling evreyone it's over and she doesn't know what she wants now.

Her boss knows about some of it. OM boss probably isn't aware of it.

OMW knows alittle about it, but OM was "allowed" to lie about the depth of feelings and the seriousness of the A.

Should this be done before Christmas?

Guess this is like intervention, huh?

SS, this should be done TODAY. NOW. And I would not warn your W that you are going to do it. Call the OMW and diguise your # with *67 so your call will not be intercepted by the OM. I would just keep calling back until the OMW answers.

How do you know what the OMW knows about it? Did you speak to her yourself before now?

It is an intervention, but more than that, it is exposing their dirty little secret. Affairs THRIVE on secrecy. The OMW has a right to know about the affair so she can protect herself and her children from her H and your W.

When I discovered the A, my W told me she had called and left a VM with OM telling him he wasn't gonna leave his family and W didn't want to hurt me.

OMW was already suspicious cause OM was doing the some A think with someone else 9 months earlier.

OMW actually retrieved the VM and called my W back.

All this told by my W when I discovered 2 days after the call. I believe it to be the case.

My W has told me that OM has been telling OMW many lies about how deep this went so I know this will be a shock to her. I know many details she doesn't. W even said OM told OMW that he didn't care for my W and it was all blown up. My W says he was lying to himself. This was all said 2 months ago upon discovery and when I talked with OM 2 weeks later.

My wife insists it was all her fault and has taken all of the blame as he is so innocent and a good family man. PUKE! He has done this b4 and he is a player from all I've discovered.

If the A is over, except for the work contact, can this do more harm than good for our future?

Yes - call the OMW and tell her! Believe me, I would have wanted to know no matter what the timing and would have totally *appreciated* a call from someone with details that I didn't know, etc. It's the details that I have no way of finding out/verifying but that in my heart are true that drive me nuts! It would be like a godsend to talk to someone who could tell me the details!

Well, it is not over. As long as they continue to see each other, it is not over. It may have cooled off this week, but it will back on next week. There will be no recovery until one of them changes jobs.

Telling the OMW can only HELP kill the affair and keep it dead, because there will be TWO ppl watching instead of ONE. The OM is free to pursue your W, and vice versa, as long as the OMW remains ignorant.

But that is just the first step, you still have to deal with the work arrangement.

And I believe very much that the OM lied to his W, this is typical. She needs to be told NOW, SS.

I can certainly understand what your saying. I know for OMW sake she certainly has a right to as much of the dirt as possible.

I am concerned whether this would cause harm to oour chances of getting to and through withdraw.

I think I need to remember, I don't "need" her and my "choice" to be with her but not at any cost.

My little alien is having an off-day apparently. She has been reading "Women's Infidelity". The book that says some women around 30 just have sexual needs and not to beat themselves up over an A too much. Just a bad decision.
Maybe but oh the consequences.

It actually HELPS it because it cuts off an open path to the OM. With the OMW knowing, your W is less likely to resume the affair and she will give up hope. She will be temporarily angry, but the benefits far outweigh that.



Isn't that sweet? Encouraging women to act like sluts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> That'll give em something to be proud of in their old age! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for your insight Melody.

Reading the link to Dr. Hurley's Unfaithful wife letters, he doesn't seem to mention exposure in the closest example to my wifes A.(letter 3), but without NC, it does seem like this will go on and on and on.


[quote] Isn't that sweet? Encouraging women to act like sluts. That'll give em something to be proud of in their old age!

Gonna have to figure out the quote thing, LOL Sorry.

Yeah, and I bought her the book too. She has also been reading from After the Affair and a little from HNHN.

W has told me we should just focus on having a good Xmas and deal with the "ugly" stuff later. We are doing well outside the obvious for Xmas.

Is W just stretching the A out or is she just in the fog and still doesn't know what she wants? She has told me it's being with me and working on the marriage or seperating and being by herself to "find herself" and whether she can be happy in a relationship.

With a diagnosis of BPD (read that as identical to Marilyn Monroe's issues), bulemia, alcohol, rape, and child abuse(mental and physical) is it possible that is what she is really dealing with?

Or is an A just and A and the WS always acts this way?

Hi sunsetter -

Just caught up on your thread. Listen to MelodyLane and what others are telling you about exposure, and what you need to do start the path to recovery.

Your wife is not capable of going down the path to recovery because she is trapped by an addiction. Exposure is designed to shed light on the affair to anybody in a position to put pressure on it. When there is an OPS (Other Person's Spouse) in the picture, they can often be the most critical piece in shattering the affair.

Remember, you cannot make your wife do anything. What you can do, however, is determine what you will and will not live with, let her know this, and enforce consequences for violating your personal boundaries.

It's a well known fact here on MB (and other places) that a wife needs to respect her husband. Just as kids won't respect a parent that doesn't follow through on consequences, a wife won't respect her husband. Heck - that dynamic is true for any human to human relationship.

NC must, must, must be established. It must be established by your wife. Until NC is in place and maintained, you cannot hope to address any of the issues in your marrige, nor can your wife hope to address any of her personal issues.

Trust me...my wife has spent 12 months not facing the affair, hoping it would just go away on its own. It hasn't. And it won't.

Everyone has problems. Problems don't go away on their own. We make them go away. Or we ignore them and they get bigger and bigger.

What you're being advised to do is often counter-intuitive, but it works. If you're afraid of doing something to lose your wife, try looking at it this way: You've already lost her. What are you going to do to get her back?

Appeasement and being a doormat will not work. Taking a stand for yourself and your marriage will.

You have every right (in fact, you have a responsibility) to take a stand against anything that threatens your marriage. The sooner you take that stand, the sooner you'll have a chance to recover your marriage, and the less emotional pain and trauma you'll endure.

Keep posting, keep listening, and act on the advice you're being given. Everyone posting to you wants your marriage to succeed - and more importantly, we want you to succeed.

The idea of exposure is a standard, tried and true Marriage Builders principle that Dr. Harley speaks of often on his radio show and in counseling. This is where we got the idea.

Telling the other spouse is always beneficial in ensuring the affair is killed.

TY Healingbird. I really can see alot in your post. I think I have been playing the doormat.

Can you give me a little insight to setting boundaries for myself and our M while still leaving it up to W to establish NC?

I have always been strong in our M and I do think she is looking for strength from me now.

Hi sunsetter -

I'm not the best at explaining boundaries (though I'm very good about not setting them and enforcing them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />), but I'll give it a shot.

The first thing to keep in mind is that boundaries are not manipulation. In other words, you are not telling your spouse what they can and can't do, as much as you are saying what you will and will not tolerate.

For example, if NC is not established and maintained, you should view that as a continuation (or an attempt to continue) the affair.

At that point, you would do 2 things:
1. Confront your WW with evidence (not suspicion, only evidence).
2. Expose the affair. If it's been exposed, re-expose it and consider widening the circle of exposure.

This is your way of enforcing your boundary against a third person in the marriage. Your wife is still completely free to choose a third person if she wants. You have no control over that. But it is also your way of protecting yourself and your marriage.

That's a marital boundary. A personal boundary is similar. It basically boils down to things that you will not allow others to do to you, nor will you do them.

For example, if you do not liked to be yelled at (who does? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />), part of your personal boundary would be not yelling at people. A consequence of violating the boundary could be as simple as walking away calmly from the person yelling at you. Or if you're the one yelling, you walk away anyway.

Another boundary for marriage would be to not allow yourself to be put in a position where your marriage would not be protected. That could be anything, not just infedility. It could be drinking, gaming, TV watching - anything that threatens the marital relationship or takes away from it. That would be a boundary for both spouses.

I hope that gives you something to start with. Others here can probably give better explanations and examples.

Boundaries and consequences are something that I'm still struggling to define 12 months after D-Day.

One more thing:


She may very well be doing that. Women want men they can respect. But she's also suffering an addiction, which means even while part of her may be looking to you, another part of her is going to buck everything. Just be prepared and stick to your boundaries. Ultimately it's up to her to choose what to do.

Oh...one other thing. Boundaries are not ultimatums. If you give a WS (or anybody, really) an ultimatum, most likely they'll do exactly what you don't want them to do, just because you gave them an ultimatum.

TY Healingbird.

That explaination helps me alot about boundaries. I am definately going to have to do some thinking and writing on that one.

Oh, my poor alien.

I come home after 3 nights away so she could clear her head(last time I do that BTW. W is very pleasent and gives me a nice intimate kiss. We do a little dancing. Have a nice meal. Walk around the neibourhood and look at Christmas lights. W falls asleep in my lap.

WOW that sounds nice. Of course W may have had a little to drink, jeeze.

W tells me she has written me a letter and wants me to read it later.

Letter starts by saying she knows in her heart no one will love, care, listen and be patient the way I am with her.

Follows up with she has to learn to love the way other ppl do(again very abusive childhood, rape, alchohol, bulemia, family history of infidelity including her first H).

Says she loves me so much but the sexual part is "so weird".
W not sure why, maybe her insecurities. but wants to work on the M. Says she is willing to make choices(her job with OM, maybe)

Then alien pops up and W says if in future she is not feeling what she wants and want I want , W wants us to be ok. ? Will always love me and wants us to always be a family where we both enjoy being with each other.

W says she has missed me while I was gone. Mostly "caring feelings", not loving ones I think.

Says she doesn't deserve me. Biggest fear is letting me down because she has always let herself down.

Finishes with Me deserving the the world and the "purest most honest love. Says she will try and be that person but if she can't, W wants and expects me to have that.

Says she is trying.


Everyone says that exposure to all I know to OMW is essential, so I am going to call after her after kids go to school.

Maybe feelings and contact with OM may be what is blocking the intimate feelings from having any chance because withdraw can't occur?

W says her intimacy issues started a couple of years before the EA, which looking back, is likely.

What type of reaction can I expect from W when she finds out about me contacting OMW? I do feel W is holding on to the Christmas season hard and am wondering if I can't wait until after Christmas.