Phone number listed is no longer in service.

Information has no listing.

I have the address. Should this be done face to face?

SS, I would drive over and see if you can contact her.

SS, did you decide to wait until after Christmas? I wonder if that wouldn't be the most compassionate way to expose? There is no urgency here, so waiting another week wouldn't hurt anything, but would give her an enjoyable Xmas. Just a thought....

Guess I tried to see it from OMW and her kids point of view.


Figure this woman has been lied to and hurt as much as me and didn't feel the need to ruin Xmas with the news.

Yeah I found out where they live and plan on the week after Xmas.

Just a side note, my wife while driving back from Xmas shopping for our D, said she just wishes she could feel intimate with me. Says she loves me(read cares for me) more than ever. That she wants to so bad. Still feeling like a brother I guess.

Is this due to the partial withdraw and partial non-NC?

Well last night was enlightning.

W told me she feels like a nothing. Feels like she is a bad person. Feels like she never will be abble to forgive herself for the EA. Has touble being with me because of the pain she has caused.

Went to church this morning and she is crying because she feels unworthy of being there.

In reading "Women's Infidelity", author notes that M is as likely to end from guilt as the A.

I have told W on numerous occations, that I forgive her and that she can talk to me about "any" of her feelings without judgement.

Only opens up feelings when drinking.

Is there anything I can do other than plan A and few if any LB's to help her through the guilt?

My W is obsessed with the guilt since childhood and I feel she may not be able to overcome it alone.

She will go from one extreme to the other. Get her to call Jennifer C @ MB for phone counseling. You will find out if she is acting vs really trying to recover.

What should you do? Be the supporter but NOT minimize it.

Ex:

Xws: I feel guilty and ashamed of what I have done.

BS: Undertsandable.

Xws: I don't want to go to church today.

Bs: Ok.

Xws: Tomorrow I don't want to do the dishes, clean house or anything else. I want you to do it all and then some. I want you to give me things (new addiction)and I want......

Now if that happens, she isn't sincere. Just redirecting her WS virus.

In that instance, step aside and do NOT enable it by doing things for her.

Take action away from the WS attitude and work along with positive action for the family. I call it: Plan A your spouse but plan B the WS.

L.

Ty for your reply O.

Should I just supply the name and number and tell her to call up for counselling, or will Jennifer take the lead once the call is made?

Thanks for the role play. That helps me understand my role a bit better.


She mentioned today not wanting to quit her job where the OM also works.

I must have tighned my face because W said she felt I was giving her an ultimatum about leaving her job and NC.

W is reading SAA now. I hope that helps her understand the addiction and withdraw process along with the need for NC.

I HAVE told her my concerns with her staying, but W says she can handle it.

Sounds like a few real life rationals in SAA.

Hi Sunsetter (mind if I call you SS before I get carpal tunnel syndrome? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)


I would ask her if she'd be willing to talk to Jennifer. I've never talked with Jennifer, but I'm sure she'll know what to do once your wife is on the phone.

Simply ask her to talk to Jennifer. Just once, to see how it goes. No obligations, no expectations. After all, it can't hurt, can it?

One hour with a counselor costs less than divorce <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


She cannot handle it. Nobody can. The only way to move past the affair is to severe all contact with the OM. Otherwise the possibility of things reigniting are always there.

Let me share an example with you. My wife broke NC after a particular bad argument we had one time. What do you think your wife will do, especially while she's in withdrawal or in the early stages of recovery when you hit a big bump? Turn to you, or turn back to OM?

If OM is accessible (i.e., in the same workplace), the temptation to turn to OM will be incredibly strong. After all, their relationship was all daisies and bliss, right?

Finally, she should be willing to quit her job out of respect to you and to your marriage. Affairs often carry a high price, and if your wife truly wants to give your marrige a shot, quitting her current job is a very small price to pay, IMO.

Thanks HB. I know that NC is a pre-requisite. Now for W to see the light.

W told me last night that she went out to the catering truck yesterday. This is the one place W actually saw OM. Says she went out later than she used to so she wouldn't run into him.
Lo and behold, she tells me she didn't feel a thing. W could be telling the truth or more likely lying to me to sooth my feelings about NC. Told me today that she looks back and wonders how she could have been so stupid and what could she have been thinking. Must have been frustration, loneliness, insecurity, etc...... These sound like rationalization to not have NC to me. Is that right?
She has also told me that while in the hieght of the EA she couldn't sleep, concentrate at work, or think of anything else. That when OM came to W desk 3 weeks after it "ended", she lit up like a Christmas Tree.


Might have had a step today, actually. W is at work and is in chapter 5,6, and 7 of SAA. W calls me and says those chapters are describing just what she has been feeling; emotionless, lost, zoned out, in a fog.

Didn't ask me what to do about it. W has been using booze to cope and I told her this morning that booze was a threat to our M and I was going to dump any I found to protect M.(also thinking full exposure to OMW after Christmas.)

What's the best course when WS realizes "the fog"? Plan A away? Tell her I am there for her? Tell her it will end someday? Or is all this part of the WS justifying not having NC?

Hi SS -


That really depends. If she's saying these things to justify keeping her job and being exposed to OM (i.e., under the guise of I know now that I was wrong, and I can handle it), then yes, she's probably looking for a reason to not establish and/or maintain NC.

On the other hand, if she's just sharing her feelings regarding the affair, then it's not rationalization to not maintain NC. It's her sharing her feelings and thoughts with you, and that is a beautiful thing, even if it causes you pain right now.

Frustration, loneliness, insecurity, etc in themselves can be used as justification, but they are also statements of fact that pertain to both her frame of mind and the state of your marriage that left it vulnerable to an affair.

The point that your wife has to get to is realizing what it was that made her choose to have an affair. Something within her character makeup enabled her to choose to have an affair, and that has nothing to do with external factors.

Just as I chose to not meet my wife's needs, my wife chose to have an affair. I could give a whole list of reasons why I chose to not meet my wife's needs, but in the end they are nothing but justification for my choice to not follow God's commandments for me as the husband.

Do you see the difference?

This is where IC comes in. IC can help your wife get to the root of the problem.


I added the emphasis to underscore why NC is so extremely important in these situations - and that includes taking extreme measures (such as quitting her job) to ensure NC is maintained. As long as contact remains, or is possible, the chances of the A re-igniting are quite high, and your chances of recovery quite low.

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder? I've done that for a year - trust me, it doesn't do you, or your marriage, any good.


I wouldn't expect her to ask you what to do about it for some time yet. She needs to quit the booze. My wife has spent the last year doing everything she could to not think about OM or the affair, hoping it would go away. It hasn't, and it won't, until she faces it and deals with it.

She has to do this on her own. It has to come from within her.


Keep Plan Aing. Get your boundaries in place, tell your wife what they are, and have consequences ready if she continues to violate them.

Give her encouragement. Listen to her - even if it is painful to hear. It's important that your wife know, even if she won't acknowledge it yet, that she can share absolutely anything without fear of you lashing back at her.

Don't minimize the affair, nor the pain it has caused you. But don't whitewash it either. Part of establishing trust and intimacy is learning to share your feelings (in a non-LB environment) with your wife. Just state them. Don't elaborate or go into long drawn out discussions, and don't expect her to address them yet. Trust and respect her enough to allow her to make her own decisions.

As for the alcoholism, there are posters on the forum that have dealt with that. MelodyLane can give you some great advice on how to deal with that.

And yes, expose to OMW as soon as you can (considering the holidays). She has a right to know what is going on in her marriage, just as you have a right to know what is going on in yours.

Unfair as it is, the burden of recovery often lies on the BS' shoulders, at least initially. Realize that the super human effort you're having to put in right now will, if your wife comes around (and it sounds like she might be), be rewarded in spades as you go down the recovery path.

It's going to be rough, and it's going to take time, and somedays you'll ask yourself why you bother. Continue to post here. If you need to vent, do it here or with a good friend or family. Keep yourself sunnyside up for your wife <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you HB. I do appricate the time and thought you put into your response and it is very helpful.

W wanted to look at all my childhood pictures last night. We had a really good time.

90 minutes and some booze later, W is feeling awful about herself and guilty about everything.

Says she is writing me a letter explaining the A and that she knows it was over the line, but looking back didn't mean anything and was stupid. I believe she thinks that but the history of the A is there, the feelings generated are there, and my knowledge of the A is there. I don't believe I can just let her pass it by.

W says the A's listed in After the Affair and SAA aren't at all like what she had. Sounds like denial to me. I didn't say much as she was saying it.

Then she went into her romanitic notion of our non-intimacy issue. W again stated her feelings for me are like a brother and she doesn't understand how "working on building love" as described in SAA, HNHN, and Surviving an Affair will make her desire me again, even though she says she finds me attractive and desparately want to feel excited by me again. W says she feels terrible beyond belief that she can't address my SF needs. That she wouldn't blame me for having an affair on her. Then of course W pushes me away and I LB for 10 minutes by DJ. Maybe she won't remember much from the booze.

Is there someone out there with some insight on this area that can help?

She has agreed to do 2 or 3 phone counseling sessions with someone from the Hurley's. Then maybe a marriage retreat after the new year. W then said maybe we need a Sex Therapist to help her. GRRRRRR

SS, your wife is having a perfectly normal withdrawal. She doesn't feel sexually attracted right now because she is withdrawn frm you emotionally. As she gets through withdrawal, that will change.

She is still in denial about her affair and you are at great risk because of the continued contact though. She says she feels nothing, but those feelings can be easily rekindled. The fact that she doesn't admit or accept that leaves her wide open for a resumption. I think telling the OMW will help you somewhat in that regard.

Am very glad to hear you will be counseling with the Harleys. If the marriage can be saved, they can do it.

Is she an alcoholic?

Yes, ML, she is.

Well, you have a very different problem on your hands then. That has to be addressed before you can recover your marriage. I would still endeavor to kill this affair, ie: tell the OMW and strive to get her to leave her job, but meeting the needs of an alcoholic is impossible.

Her emotional make up is very different from that of a normal person because a) her first love is alcohol and b) her emotions are warped from alcohol.

Have you checked into Alanon? Here is what Harley says about alcoholic spouses: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5048a_qa.html

MMMM. Now I am getting depressed.

So phone MC at this point is a waste?

I also don't understand how to "strive to get her to leave her job" without LB'ing?

Guess my next call is to Alanon.

SS, the way you strive to get her to leave her job is to tell her that recovery can't work as long as she works wiht the OM. Continue to suggest this. And no, you shouldn't lovebust, but I am not suggesting that you lovebust her, only that you explain your boundaries.

SS -

How are things going with you?

Hello HB.

Thank you for your concern.

It is the most awful feeling, two people who love one another and this A and the "no spark" keep us so lonely, even while holding onto one another.

WS doesn't see her EA as a REAL A but has acnowledged this morning how much she hurt me and just says she can't see past her guilt and worthlessness to see hope.

She actually emailed this morning that she sometimes thinks she should "let me go" to find someone to love me like I deserve. Her pain is nealy more than I can handle and I can do nothing but forgive and tell her it's in the past and commitment and healing will make things better.

She is holding onto resentment of past marital issue and finding much to be critical about, I think, to reduce her guilt. She has angry outbursts at a drop. Even said that my posting on MB is like an affair. Hmmm.

She has gone two days without drinking and I know she is in withdraw which she is dealing with by taking ALOT of sleep medicine. Woke up this morning saying god must have a reason for her to keep waking up.

I would like to schedule a phone session with Dr. Harley, but don't think he will talk until she has gone a few weeks without booze.

She is putting a huge amount of preesure on herself to "feel" that spark that she says she would do anything for. I keep trying to get her to see healing takes time and NC(she still hasn't left her job with OM, had contact and conversation around Thanksgiving) I am exposing all I know to OMW next week after the her kids are back in school. I am trying to find a good time to bring up the boundary of pain and threat to our M not having NC is causing.

Sometimes I wonder if us separating wouldn't be a good idea, but she says she doesn't really want to. WS says she just hurts when she sees me.

Seeing her in this self induced pain is killing me because I am so much in love with this woman.

I am excersizing and doing things for myself, but she wants to be with me and doing things. I don't know whether out of guilt or that she wants to so I give in and spend "quality time" with her that just doesn't feel right when I look in her eyes.

I am in despair and lost. It is helpful having people here on MB that have an honest desire to help people get through these worst of times. I want to thank you and those who have posted on this thread for your time and caring.

Things will be better when you expose to the OMW. Please do that as soon as possible.