Hi!
My husband I are using the MB course and have stumbled upon a road block. We are working in the love busters section and have just finshed the lesson that talks about the "giver and the taker" of our personaliites. He says that his giver personality was in effect during a recent "disagreemnt" I grounded our duaghter and he didnt say anything about it even though he was in desagreement about it. He says that was the giver becuase I was getting what I want and he was sacrificing his opionions for me, but also that he did it becuase he didnt want to fight and since fighting makes me unhappy, that he was being a giver. I disagree with that assesment. I see that his taker was in control as he was withdrawing from the agruement. and that since he was avioding a fight, that was the taker. I see the giver as toatlly selfless and more then willing and happy to do things that make others happy, not just being complacent. Okay- so whose right? becuase he says if I am right, then he has never been a "giver" and that makes him a worthless person. I told him, if he has never been a giver, then admit it, accept it, and try to fix it. Am I totally overanyalizing this or is his "taker" defending him and if so, can we move forward with teh MB if he is not a giver and never has been without him admiting it? or if he never has been, does he have to admit that before we move to the next lesson? Should I just let it go and maybe he will realize it later, or am I wrong that he is more of a giver then I give him credit for? I hope this makes sense. If not, let me know and I will try to explain better.
Dolly

The Giver and Taker are just terms Dr. Harley uses to describe parts of our personalities. You're right in your description -- the Giver is all about making others happy at any cost. People who are having trouble in their marriages are not in love, so their Givers are not very active. You'd see Giver behavior when you're first falling in love and you just want to please the other person because it makes you so happy. Neither one of these 'personalities' should be in charge-- they're both wrong-- but we have to appease them and make changes with both of our Givers & Takers in mind. Otherwise, we won't feel the changes are 'fair'.

A big plus in your case, that you aren't seeing, is that your husband actually talked about an area that is causing you problems: You don't agree on how to discipline your daughter. I'd give him BIG credit right there. Do you know how many wives can't get their husbands to even look at Harley's stuff let alone try it. So calm down-- you're farther along than you think. It's a GOOD THING he was avoiding an argument. You should be avoiding arguments too, Dolly. Arguing and fighting must stop.

So what do you do instead, and how do you solve problems?

Jump to the Policy of Joint Agreement, which is where this problem would fall. Get the principle firmly in your minds, and then use it for every single decision where you used to: 1) fight or 2) make decisions without the other's input. It does work even if one of us is not convinced it could help.

Still learning,

Do you guys want to be right or do you want to be married?

Serious question.

You think the Giver is selfless? Really? Because if you allow yourself to dwell in your Giver, you'll ruin your marriage and your life with resentment.

Harley says you need a balance of BOTH...both are essential, and are, already inside you...don't strangle your Taker and don't let your Giver run your marriage into the ground.

Judgment guys...you are both riddled with it...not unusual...very common...you can't judge yourself to love, you can just feel like it.

What marital agreements do you have in place in regards to your children? If you are parenting, you're acting as one parent...not called parentsing. For a great marriage, have progressive, predetermined discipline, for the most part...where you're both aware and in agreement what steps you take...you don't take action, dole out punishment, unless you both are aware and in agreement.

POJA your ideas on rearing children...find your most basic beliefs and POJA creative ways to come together and agree...enthusiastically.

I can see why trying to see who the Taker is and who the Giver was in that instance would be a great distraction from the whole fracture in parenting...and I would call your H being RESPECTFUL not to disagree in front of the kid...putting you two at odds is a harsh punishment for children to witness. It's terrifying.

Seeing her parents working together on their marriage...priceless.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Congratulations, btw, on your mutually healthy choice to do this...

Ways to see his Giver (('cuz he has one...and if he didn't act from it, ever (hard to imagine), that STILL wouldn't make him worthless...OUCH!! How 'bout them DJs, Dolly?))...

Your H gives presence, commitment, time, patience, respect and acknowledgment. He gives of himself through HIS choice...not giving to get...giving from love. His desire is to see you happy, content, in love with him and secure...and I believe, you most likely desire the same thing for him.

Neither of you have the power to make each other feel those things...half of it is you choosing to...to see his Giver and his Taker, in a healthy balance.

This isn't a personality test...ALL of us have our Giver/Taker...how we control our own stuff is totally up to us...doesn't define or label us...what is our stuff is ours...what we choose to say and do, that's the marriage's stuff.

There's you, him and the marriage.

Are you looking for exits, Dolly? Are you wanting to contain him in a category, pat him down into a box you can hold and assess? OUCH...no human can do that if they want to live in honesty.

There are times when your Giver runs wild...you may be feeling not loved securely enough and you want desperately to earn it...fixing others, doing their stuff...having control where you have no control given God's design. You cannot cause, control or cure anyone of anything that is within their domain...their beliefs (like your H's that he thought it was his Giver), perception, feelings, thoughts, or perspectives...are solely his. You can know them if he's willing to share them with you...to judge them is to kill your marriage. What's his is his...his stuff is valid. Doesn't even fall into right or wrong. That's his. Until he acts on his truth, remains, his truth. When he acts from his beliefs, then you'll have The Truth...actions...choices...until then, they are his.

Same for you...your feelings and the rest of your stuff is VALID...as is...your stuff is...it's yours. When you act, you fall into the realm of reality...can't take actions back...no matter how much you didn't or did intend, think or desire...actions are. The other stuff is our own.

When you made your vows, Dolly, you said you accepted your DH for who he really is...not what his actions may or may not be. You can judge the actions, not the person.

Rejection is a fearful way to live. You are rejecting the essence of your DH, and he is you, if he says you're wrong to believe or perceive...please don't do this to one another.

There is more than enough room in a marriage for each of you to hold different beliefs, perceptions...and even more room for them to change, over time, with experience. Breathe and relax. You're each longing for acceptance, to be loved for who you really are...and if you're caught up in the right or wrong, know you're earning love, not choosing to give it from your own belief you love.

Love is a choice. Meeting ENs is what you do to express, to act on your own choice. No earning required. If you truly believe you earn each other's love, you'll earn each other's punishment...they go hand in hand...and that belief system seems to work okay...until it doesn't...breaks to heck marriage and families.

Choose wisely.

LA

Okay- thanks to both of you for your insight. I was going to clear up a few things that were misunderstood from my post, but I thought - you know what? what difference does it make? Little things misunderstood are not worth agruing about. So on to the big stuff
I seriously thought about it all eveing and read your posts and re-read the chapter. This is my conclusion - If he says he was the "giver" in any situtaion it is not for me to tell him otherwise. That is his feeling and his emotion and I can't judge that. Second of all -the biggest and toughest realization was that it was wrong of me to want him to be the giver 100%. I looked back at when we first started dating to how I was 100% giver with him (and head over heels in love) and finding out he didnt feel the same way hurt. Then I looked at it objectivly and realized, I was the one who was going about it all wrong. The all giver no taker appraocah is so not the right way to do it and he was doing it right.
Granted - we both still have a long ways to go on this marraige and have both made some big mistakes, I'm glad to see we are at least making some head way.
yes- we are both trying this course with all the effort we can as it is a last resort. We had come to a dangerous place in our marriage and I found this course and we decided instead of getting divroced we would try this - wholheartly- and if things still werent better after that, we coudl peacfully divorce and say that we tried everything before giving up. So, yes, we are both in this together, beucase if we arnt - we would not be together at all.
Thank you for your time and helping me "see the light". Hopefully I wont have to post again, as that means we will be doing things great on our own.
So -heres hoping not to talk to ya again! (lol)
Dolly

Hello Everyone...

Here is my situation...

I'm 37 with 2 beautiful kids 11 and 14. I am in my 2nd marriage his first. My first marriage was abusive..this one, well, I'll leave that to you all...

My husband now of almost 4 years is giving me trouble. I do do do, go go go, I get him up at 3am for work and even bring his coffee to him in the mornings. He says its MY responsibility to do that..I really don't think so..he thinks because I DONT work, I don't do nothing...here's what I do: grocery shopping, kids practices, cook dinner, clean house, go get him things he needs because he doesn't feel like going out, bills..etc etc...and he also says he will NOT help me if I DONT work..he believes in his mind that if he works hes done it all.there is no reasoning with him. He thinks instead of finishing my last semester in college he thinks I need to work instead. There is NO reasoning with him.There is no communication...I told him it takes two in a marriage, not one. He doesn't like talking about feelings. Every time I get upset with him he says i'm the one with a problem. I don't ask for anything, I try hard to make him happy as well as my kids and neglect myself. Sometimes I feel that hes taking advantage of me and my kids by making us do things he doesn't want to do. i'm a giver, hes a taker definately..any advice would be appreciated.

Joanie,

You may have more responses if you start your own thread or if you post in the Emotional Needs section, they generally get more traffic and many people are dealing with problems like yours.

OOPS!!! my apologies!!! Thank you Chobbs!

Joanie