On Thanksgiving, I found out husband had a ONS at the end of October with a friend of his brothers family.

Here it is December and I can't stop the thoughts.
There's no escape - sleep, when it comes, is peppered with dreams about the two of them. And when I'm awake these thoughts and images invade every moment of my day.

Since d-day, we've been working on communication and working to regain what we used to have, but it's been a bumpy road and I keep expecting both of us to revert to old habits and destructive behaviors. When we get angry with one another, we make hurtful decisions out of spite.
Who's to say he won't f**k her again one of these days when I've ticked him off and he hasn't 'gotten any' in awhile? (which was his reason it happened in the first place, I'm told)
A friend of mine told me I now have a green light to do the same - but I can't bring myself to even consider it. I don't want to damage our marriage anymore than it already is...and believe me, I've done plenty of damage already. If I were to become the WS, what good would that do?
Although maybe then he'd get a taste of his own medicine. Maybe then he'd realize just how difficult each day is for me. Maybe then he'd know what it's like to live with the constant movies that run through my head...filling in the blanks about 'that night' and assuming the worst.

I hate that I'm here. I hate that he's put me here. I hate what he did...although I am thankful it wasn't an actual affair...I don't know that I'd be strong enough to handle this if it had been an ongoing thing.

Happy Holidays...yeah, right.

Welcome to marriagebuilders. Glad you found us. We all know what you are going through - the sadness, feelings of loss of specialness, sleepless nights.

First off, it didn't happen because he hadn't "gotten any" in awhile. It happened because he chose to break his marriage vows.

I suggest you get counseling from the Harley's if possible. It is expensive, but often they can get right to the problem.

It will take a couple of years before you feel okay again - if he can prove that he is worthy of your trust.

Do you have someone you would actually WANT to have sex with to punish your husband? Or would you just spread your legs for some random stranger to get the job done?

Take some responsibility for this mess. Affairs, even ONS do not happen in a vacuum and you are BOTH 100% liable, resposible and "to blame" so to speak.

First, spend some time learning the MB concepts. You obviously haven't done that yet if you are considering retaliation sex.

pieta,

Thank you.
You have done a wonderful job of running me off this site.
I came here for support and understanding and am told I am 100% to blame for my husbands choice and to take responsibility for this mess? Without knowing anything more than the little I posted, you think you know enough about my situation to make these inane comments?
Thanks ever so much!

How much of your own pain and distress is a result of what you are doing? 100%. I don't mean that you are responsible for all of the the trouble and that your husband is not responsible at all. I mean each of you is 100% responsible. That's my belief--my truth. We are all entitled to our own. If you cannot handle my truth, a complete stranger-- Then perhaps you cannot handle your husband's either. Perhaps you punish him with words too. See, that is what marriage is, really--respecting each other's truth. Allowing the other "to be" who is or she is without punishment. Creating a mariage that is a safe place to fall.

While both partners contribute to marital distress, who is resolving it? Your husband dealt with his distress by sticking his penis in another woman's vagina. Did that solve anything? Did that make your relationship better? How did his behavior make you feel? Why would you, for one second entertain the idea of doing the same to him?

Now I believe (my truth again) that if one of you really (and I really mean REALLY) starts doing the work, to become a loving, responsible partner, the other will have to follow suit – in time.

But as long as you are waiting for your husband to start changing into a really cool, responsible partner, nothing is going to happen.

If you study the MB tenets on this site you will learn the traits of a responsible, loving partner. These traits are measurable, learnable, trainable, specific.

You don’t have to wait for your husband. And you don't get to punish him for what he did. In fact that will set you back to a point it is hard to return from.

You learn new skills. You Change YOURSELF. As your H sees the change, he will be forced to change also. That doesn’t mean you will force them. If you become a loving, responsible partner, who the ****** wants cheat on you. Get it?

Don't get run off of this site by one poster. Some of these posters give tough love and aren't the most sensitive, but it doesn't mean that they don't want to help. You said that this person doesn't know what you are going through, but you are wrong. Most of the people here have been through exactly what you are going through now, if not worse. My WW would not give up her OM for months after I found out. She used to talk on the phone with him or text him in front of me when we were out together. You obviously need a lot of help to get through this. Read up on all the free information on this website, and get a copy of Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley. If you need more advice, I would repost this thread under the "Infidelity/General Questions" thread. There are a lot more people lurking there and you will get more responses. You need to calm down and be more open to what people have to say here. Pieta is right, a revenge affair will only make the situation worse. Welcome to MB. This site is the greatest resource for getting through this that you will ever find. Don't give up on it just yet.

Hi Deb. (Can I call you that?)

Sorry you have to be here. Sorry for the pain, the doubt, the sleepless nights, and the wondering that won't leave you alone.

It is often easier to move forward if you keep busy. A good way to do that is to read the concepts on this web site, and the books DR Harley has written. My W and I have come a long way since I first found this web site in 2002.

There are many reasons why he might have done what he did. Some of them can be taken care of by doing the things DR Harley teaches.

If you read everything, you will begin to see if there is anything you can do to prevent this from ever happening again. Not that it was your fault, but sometimes there are ways to "Affair proof your marriage."

Realize that there are many who came here and saved their marriage, and even made it better than before. The chances are that you can do the same.

How are you doing today?

SS

I find Pieta's comments particularly insensitive, and WRONG.
The decision to have an affair has nothing to do with the BS.
And Deborah's idea of having a revenge affair, if not good, is quite understandable, it is a release for the anger and the despair she feels. It won't solve anything, probably. But I was once surprised to read this on the forum: a FWW was saying that she had several affairs, and she only fully understood what she was doing to her husband when eventually he had an affair himself, she says then only she understood and she stopped doing it!

NOTHING? Not one little thing? Not ever? Under any circumstances? Really?



So there you have it. This woman who had her head on straight, who was so "together" so to speak, who was so in tune with herself and reality in general that she actually had SEVERAL affairs--This reliable, trustworthy woman, this sage thinker come to the profound conclusion that she stopped having affairs because her husband's affair gave her the empathy she needed to get beyond her own sullied and maladaptive behavior--this is the best argument you could come up with to qualify the benefits of a retaliation affair?

How about this:

A husband is unhappy and frustrated with his marriage. After years of feeling like he is banging his head against the wall, he starts drinking. He gets into a car accident. Soooooooo, the wife gets drunk one night and drives her car into a brick wall-- Because she wants her husband to appreciate what she goes through being married to him.

A retaliation affair is just as stupid!

Deb,

Pieta is completely 100% misinformed / inaccurate / fallacious .. simply put, COMPLETELY WRONG.

Your husband had an affair because he chose to go outside of his marriage rather than work within it.

Every marriage has problems and having an affair is never the way to repair it.

Believe me I considered giving FWH a taste of this medicine but two wrongs never make a right.

This is what the poster said about her own marriage:



Does this make sense to you? She is trying to "regain to what she had" yet she keeps expecting to "revert to old habits and destructive behaviors."

Who in the name of Christmas would want to revert to that marriage made in heaven?

People have affairs because they "like the person they are" when they are with the affair partner. If they felt this way with their spouse, there would be no affair.

You said her husband had an affair because he chose to go outside the marriage rather than work on it? Sounds to me from this posters desciption of her own marriage that he was frustrated from trying to work on it and had given up.

Many people live for years in the "giving up" stage of a marriage. An affair is just a door out of it. And back to my original point both partners are 100% responsible for a this kind of a mess.

Wow pieta,
Your anger here is totally detrimental to a newbie who is looking for help.

Well... I sincerely hope that Deb will come back here to recieve the the help that she so despeately sought. I sincerely hope that staements like"spread your legs" will not deter a person who is in sincere need of help from coming back here and listening to those who might be so inclined to actually HELP you as oposed to who want to condemn you.

Come back here for your own sake and understand, there are many here who actually want to help and guide you throgh this entire process.

All Blessings,
Jerry

PS: Pieta, If you can't help, drop out of site!!!

I am most certainly not angry and hopefully a phrase such as "spread your legs" put a true visual image on the whole notion this poster had of a retaliation affair.

Really, how does one go about having such a thing? Do you walk into a bar and come onto the first stranger you see and say, "Hey, can you do me a favor and stick your penis in me so I can get even with my husband and make myself feel better about my own attractiveness. And while I'm at it can I blow my nose on the sleeve of your shirt. I have a cold and no tissue in my purse and I'm too lazy and stupid to find some."

Who in their right mind would give someone permission to use another human being as a snot rag. Well that is what you do when you make an excuse that gives someone the least bit of permission to have a retaliation affair.

You should be on that person's case, not mine.

Wow. This conversation has become ugly. Let me first address Deb, who like so many of came here in pain looking for a place with some answers, looking for evidence that she is not alone in her feelings, and looking for a safe place to vent the anger stewing inside of her.

Deb, I'm so sorry. I've been there and many others too, but no one's story is exactly like yours. Sometimes people on these boards, like me, have learned some hard lessons. We like to encourage other people and to pass on the grace that has been given to us. Occassionally it comes out as really self-righteous, but what you have here is hurting people helping hurting people, so it is no wonder that the advice is a little rough around the edges.

Keep venting the ugliest feelings here. It's better to do that than to actually do something self-destructive. I considered a revenge affair, but never acted on it. In fact, I wasn't even serious about it. It was just one of the way that all the confusion and anger came out when the pain was very fresh.

I hope you find the comfort you need to get through these times. I believe that only God can give someone the strength and comfort they need to survive a trial like this and come out stronger than they were before.

Now to Pieta: In my opinion, unless you know someone very well, or unless they ask you directly, advice is much more effective if given lovingly and respectfully. Yours was neither, even if it was well-intentioned. I hope if you have more to say you will start your own thread and let this one be about Deb.

It looks to me like Deb went running and may never return. FWIW, I think it is the responsibility of those of us who have been here a while to be the voice of calm and sanity here.

We FBS will truly never forget the shock, anger, pain and lack of self control following D-day. MB was a comfort to me because I needed to know that what I was feeling and experiencing was "normal" for a BS.

I never for one minute considered that I was responsible for my FWH's decision to have at least one affair, and perhaps several. But, I could not deny, even in my pain, that I was equally responsible for the condition of our marriage that allowed my FWH to contemplate an affair for years and finally have one.

I too understand the temptation to have an affair of one's own after being betrayed. But, I just didn't have the heart for it and have always been glad that I didn't.

I too, hope that Deb comes back,she needs some support whether or not her marriage recovers. As for her WH, he needs to fix himself first and then, if Deb is willing, work on their marriage together.

Who

MB'ers:

Pieta may not have put her first post on this thread properly, but it is certainly Deb's(?) choice to hang around. I think that Pieta then further clarified her remark.

Deb's H made the A choice, just like me. But the state of the M prior to that day was the responsibility of both partners. And I own that.

So, Deb, come on back, and do some reading and then repost.

I'm sorry to be the cause of some message-board battle.
Sometimes I speak before I think. (or post, in this case)

I'll be back with more of my 'adventure'...
thanks for all of the encouraging words.

Please don`t do as your WH did, that makes you no better than he and it does`nt solve anything. There is nothing you did to make your WH choose the things he chose. It makes no matter how much of a good wife you are or how pretty you are. Some people think the grass is always greener on the other side, but they forget that grass also needs to be mowwed. Don`t let others run you off here Deb stay here, there are some great people here with advice. I hope all goes well with you and your marriage. Hang in there hon its a rough ride.

No battle here Deb,
Often times there are disagreements about the interpretation of Plan a or b, but it's all meaningless, to a person, such as yourself, who feels nothing but pain.

I'm sorry for my part, if I had anything to do with you not utilizing this forum as a means of healing and help. If that's true, I have no business being here. this place is a means of healing and hope for R your M. If anyone of us distracts or deviates from that one purpose, we need to move on.

I got very angry at Pieta for treating you so harshly on your very first post, but I am not in a position to judge anyone. So, thusly, I apologize to you and Pieta. No one here has the right to judge or we will never accomplish anything here.

I'm am glad you have come back, it can only mean beter things in the future for you(and perhaps me).

All Blessings,
Jerry

Deb,

Welcome to MB. I have seen this time and time again over many years. IF you decide to come here and post again, you will find that Pieta's direct approach will turn out to be very beneficial to you. As you can tell, she does not pull punches, but as you start to address this stuff, you will find her direct approach very refreshing.

I will tell you this, no one who has posted to you so far wishes anything other than your marriage recover and be what it perhaps never was before. It can happen and does happen around here frequently.

It takes a lot of work by the betrayed spouse, and the betrayed spouse needs to have their eyes open, and be firmly grounded in reality. Pieta was offering you that.

Eventually, it takes a lot of work by the wayward spouse as well. And that will come as you decide if you want to remain married and decide to focus on rebuilding.

Pieta, was very forcefully trying to convince you to NOT make the mistake of crossing your own boundaries, of violating YOURSELF and your beliefs. She also mentioned a very important thing. You don't want the "old" marriage back, because clearly it was NOT what you and your H needed.

What you both need in a marriage is what this place is about. First,finding out what that is, then making plans to achieve it. You find out via open and honest discussions, please read about the concept of "radical honesty". You develop the plan by examing your needs, via the needs questionaire. You develop the plan by using the policy of Joint agreement, read about this as well.

What you and your H need is a new marriage, and the failings of the old one do rest with the actions of both of you. His choice to have an affair...was his.

So IF you come back, first decide if you WANT to be married to your H. Then decide if YOU want a better marriage. If the answers are yes, then ask your H if he wants these things. If his answer is yes, then it is time to get focusing on acquiring knowledge and information about marriages and relationships and this site if full of just what you need.

Then make a plan to achieve what you both want.

I hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL