I have had to return as a new user because something was messed up with my old account... My name was Alison222.

My most current thread is: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3146675

I have also been chatting with Mellysue and Mulan about my H's passive agressiveness.

I have decided that in order to protect myself and my love for my H, that I will have to go into plan B. Only I have to wait until after the Holiday. I am hosting our families here - looking forward to it, but my H sort of bullied me into it.

My questions regarding plan B are:

1.Can I begin gradually by not answering certain phone calls, etc.? I do not contact my H, but he calls me currently and I answer. He calls to either vent about work or just shoot the sh*t...


2. how to implement when small children are involved and visitation is 50/50. Husband lives 20 minutes away, but his work is close to our home. Do I continue to allow him here to visit DD? Do I need to leave when he comes here?

3. We still have financial issues to deal with - how to do this when Dark?? Do I accept only the phonecalls that have to do with business?

4. How can the BS do a plan B without being percieved as a B*tch?

Some Q's you may have for me:
Yes plan A'd for over a year. Couple false recoveries. H never has moved back in. Yes, I did expose to friends and family, but H's company got bought out before I could expose there. They haven't worked together since April, but will be starting to work together in February. Haven't gone into Plan B, because I am scared poopless to do it, and it really is not toally in my character to go Dark...

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
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No. Can you begin being pregnant just getting there gradually? You are either there or you are not. You Plan A right up until the minute you give the WS your Plan B letter. Then it's lights out and You Go Dark.


People use intermediaries for messages and for dropping off/picking up kids. There is no face-to-face contact between you and him.


You get an LSA before Plan B to protect and have your intermediaries do the rest. You do NOT accept phone calls AT ALL when in Plan B. If you do, it is not Plan B.


You can't. But you won't know what he thinks anyway, will you, because you will not be having any communication with him of any kind. As long as you are scared of his anger and scared of him calling you names, you will remain in the same bullying nightmare you're in now. Do you want your young daughter growing up thinking it's normal for men to treat their wives this way?

The most important thing you can do right now is stop being afraid of his anger. He's counting on that. If you take that away, he's helpless against you.
Mulan

Ali,

In my case, I started working on LSA prior to going into Plan B, but WH has been veeeeery slow on the uptake, so we are still struggling with it. He just recently, within the last two weeks, changed his mailing address (he's been gone since July). Meet with a lawyer NOW, start drafting the LSA, review the LSA, get it back to your lawyer and be ready to send it. Get a solid Plan B letter together, post it here for advice. As far as handing off the kids, try an intermediary, and determine more scheduled visitation, so that you can work with an intermediary. No phone calls, no emails, no nothing. I have had to contact WH on occasion that there was something regarding DS, via text message or intermediary email, other than that, I have had no contact. When WH drops son off, he leaves him at the door and I let DS into house; we do not SEE each other at all!

If you are ready to move on, then Plan B is for you. I see Plan B as me preparing for D, not waiting for WH to return, HOWEVER, if you've done a stellar Plan A, then Plan B can be the thing to wake WH up. I believe that my WH is P/A, so I struggled in Plan A, but toward the end, I did well. Since going dark, the amount that I've learned about myself and improved myself has at least doubled. I suffered a recent set back, and am paying the price. Be READY for Plan B so that you are able to be DARK and quiet...

Hi Mulan, thanks for the very quick reply. How does one find an intermediary? We have no friends here - new neighborhood, no family (an hour away), do people pay intermediaries?

No face to face??? Emails/Texts about "business??? Dear Gosh.... This is going to be the absolute biggest challange for me, but I know I have to do it.

I guess I am afraid of his anger a bit, But I know i have nothing to lose by doing it.

Has anyone done any sort of plan B where you saw each other for drop off/ pick up of child? Did it work? How was it?

Just quite scared of the whole thing really. i know I need to do it for me and Mia, and I know it will hurt, but not compared to the betrayal - I can tell you that...

I am struggling with this A LOT!!! I just know I have to do this for me before they start working together, or I will LOSE IT!!!!! I have to wash that man right out of my hair - and fast - anybody got any MANRID shampoo out there???

Mulan - you referred to a couple threads that I could look at regarding Plan B. I found Lunamares thread but cannot find BW. Am i looking incorrectly???

Okay had convo with H tonight before he went out.
I wasn't feeling well. haven't been eating well.
Me: I need a steak
H: How about I take you out for a Steak On Sunday since Mia will be at my parents.
Me: Wow - cool. Thanks.
H: Hey what are you doing next Friday?
Me: Nothing yet, but girlfriend from Highschool may be coming into town and I meet them out, but nothing has been set yet. Why?
H: Oh Traci and Laura want to take me out for my birthday.
Me: Oh ok, well, I can let you know about my girlfriends soon.

Then I started thinking that I have to host H's family that weekend and that I would really appreciate it if he wouldn't go then. I know he will go out with her, and that is fine, I can't stop him, but am I allowed to respectfully ask him to wait until after the Holiday since I am going to be very stressed even without him going out with her...??? Am I allowed to ask him to be considerate and to just wait???

Please let me know what you think. Thanks!!

I know I am not supposed to ask anything of him, but this is asking him not to f'ing kill me 1 day before I have to host HIS entire family here, and to do all of this cheerfully only 2 months after my mom died... HELP!!!

Guys, I am sort of in a panic over this. My girfriend and my therapist say that I can surely ask him to postpne the birthday outing, but I would really like your opinions.

Thanks

Does his family know he has moved out and is having an affair?

Alison - Plan A means you try to improve yourself and meet his emotional needs as best you can, but it does NOT mean you enable his affair by letting him rub it in your face. It does not mean you meekly agree to clean house and host his family while he goes out on a date with his girlfriend.

That's not being his wife. That's being his mommy.

Here is a post about Plan A that I think will help you. You have been groveling trying to earn this man's love, but you are doing nothing to earn his respect - and without respect there will never be any love.


"The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A" by Pepperband

THE CARROT OF PLAN A:

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



THE STICK OF PLAN A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Allowing the consequences of adultery and infidelity to fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to affect children of the marriage or the financial security of the marriage, or otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

***Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slain for the good of the family.***

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MelodyLane : yes his family is aware that he does not live with us. And I told them a year ago about the affair. I told them the night I founf the text from my H to OW saying, I miss you baby.

Mulan, I guess, I feel I am not truly ready for Plan B yet - if I was truly ready I probably wouldn't be making so many excuses...

I will do plan A again for a little bit longer. Get through the Holiday, and see where that goes.

I did ask him please not to go out with OW this coming Friday. He said it is not very fair of me to ask him that. But I said, I understand how you could feel that way, but I am asking. He said he wouldn't go out with her. We will see if he is telling the truth or not - my guess, he will go out with Her, but just lie about it.

UGHHHHHH - All of this - and I just found out I have a spot on my left lung, which I have to get check out again next week. Also have to go into a breathing clinic, etc...

Lord - when it rains it pours...

Ali..

you MUST be joking that your husband is blatantly dating a woman on Friday night...and then YOU are hosting HIS family for CHRISTMAS...

CHRISTmas....the birth of CHRIST...correct right..?

You call YOUR family you have them over or you go to there house...

YOU call HIM and you tell him that YOU are busy with other plans with CHRISTmas....


you are enabling and condoning his affair and contact...
and you must disengage from that...otherwise you will contintue do so weeks and months from now...

he is dating another woman..yet wants you to play happy christmas family...

for your sake
for the childrens sake..

for all of your self worth and value on this earth...

and for that fact that the celebration of CHRISTS birth unto a manger was never done to be a mockery of entertaining blatant infidels...to apppease the infidels mommy and daddy...

launch the nuke now...

seek God and his simple humble love in this...

cut HIM out....

have his parents
have your parents...
have any one you desire that brings and surrounds you with truth and light but cut HIM out..

NOT welcome
NOT invited

and if he insists cancel the whole dayum thing and go somewhere else....

can you not see that....

if the otherwoman is good enough to date on Friday..then surely she's good enough christmas eve and christmas day..
tell him you are setting him free for his and her sake...
batt your eyes...
and toss your hair...

and do it..

ARK

Ali,

I was thinking the same thing as Ark..... hosting HIS family!!??! ...and he's off busy with OW... WHY??!



I second Ark's suggestion....if not...he can host HIS family himself!!!

...and put your energy in taking care of yourself and your kids....

Just thought you should know.....a WS who has blatant A 'hit a spot' with me....guess why?

How can I cut him out like this. Please know that I want to desperately, but How??? I understand he is having a blatant affair with this woman - although he swears on our DD that they are only friend, etc. That OW and her girlfriend are taking H out for his birthday. I was wondering if I should hire a PI since I know he will be with her, just to get the Picture Perfect Proof that I need to be done with this...

I sincerely do not have any idea what I am doing anymore. I must give up on this man and uick because it is tearing me apart, but I am to freakin weak for this at the moment.

I wonder if I shoul email OW and just ask her if she could wait to take him out and explain the sitch... Bad idea probably, but I know he lies to her to about his and my R/M...

Or should I just say, point blank, if you go out with OW and friend on friday, then you will not be welcome at my house on christmas. His responce would be very angry and he would use DD to punish me for this request...

What to do???

How would he use DD to punish you? That sounds very worrisome.

That he wants to be here for our DD. And truthfully, I allow him to use her as a pawn all the time. If he angers me and wants to come over on a day when he is not supposed to see her, he punishes me or maybe bullies me by saying that I am trying to keep him from his daughter...

Fiat - I just mean to say that he will say i cannot keep him from being with his DD on Christmas.

How do I handle that?

If you need to hire a PI for your own closure, then do it. I did and am very happy I did. I *needed* to see the evidence right in front of my face. Seeing your H make out with someone else, or enter their place and emerge hours later, or holding hands, etc., leaves you no doubt.

I sought the advice of a very wise woman before I did that and she said that i first had to realize that WS had abandoned our marriage. Period. Regardless of any visual evidence I did or didn't have. But to hire a PI if it made me feel better. It made me feel a lot worse (!) but at least I couldn't lie to myself anymore about it. Nor could WS side-step the evidence either.

Thanks Hanes. I will think about that... Isn't it true that they say if you ask/tell someone not to do something, that they will really really want to do it???

I feel like my asking H to not go out with "his friend" will make him want to do it even more because he knows it hurts me - and truly he really likes to do that...

I wondered at times when i was "fighting" for the marriage and stating how his actions were hurtful, that it made him feel more in control over the whole thing and he just felt he could and can do whatever he wants.

He has abondoned our M. I hate that, but he did it along time ago. And he will not let go of his notion that it is my fault that he looked outside our marriage to get his needs met. I know it is my fault that I was not meeting his needs, but he became so resentful of that and of me, that he went elsewhere. I do understand how it happens, but why he had to continuously lie about it and protect her and their relationship -- I just don't get that.

I wish he would have just come right out and said something - all he used to say to me was, "you're not the woman I fell in love with, I feel like it was a scam"... These statements made me withdrawl even more. I was looking for my happiness in him - couldn't find it, got depressed, couldn't meet my own needs, let alone, try to meet his...

Crap - this is so hard. Has anyone just felt like there is too much water under the bridge??? Too many lies have been told, etc... I know he still hides a ton of stuff from me, but i wish he wouldn't do that. He says OW doesn't judge him or b*tch at him - well of course she doesn't - they aren't married with children... They don't have money problems, etc...

OMG -- I am so sorry for this major ramble. I needed to vent. I just want to sream at him and shake him and say - look at me - ITS ME... LOVE ME!!! LOVE ME!!!

This is a very typical Passive/Aggressive characteristic. I used to say that if I asked WH not to cut off his own head, he'd cut if off anyway just to show me I couldn't tell him what to do.


You are right on the money with one. People use P/A tactics for two reasons: To reassure themselves that they are Winning and you are Losing, and to set themselves up as victims of your anger.

When he does something he knows will upset you and you do indeed get upset and cry and rage and all that, he is reassured that you are powerless. He also gets to be the victim of his horrible nagging wife and her never-ending anger.

Once you understand this, it's easier to break the cycle. Instead of crying and raging, you can simply confront him on his behaviour and tell him in no uncertain terms that you KNOW it was deliberate. You can tell him you're sorry he has chosen to relate to you this way instead of like a husband and a partner.

Then WALK AWAY.

Do not expect him to apologize, or make amends, or promise not to do it again, or anything else. Just WALK AWAY and leave him there holding the P/A bag.

Lather, rinse and repeat as necessary.

He will become sadly predictable. He really will. Instead of being blindsided by that Invisible Sledgehammer of P/A nastiness, you'll be able to see it coming and you'll know how to handle it.

Hang in there, and let us know how it's going.
Mulan/Janeen

Well, in no uncertain term, H will be going out this Friday with OW - who he says is just a friend and her girlfriend. I hate it but I can't do a darn thing about it... I do not rage and get angry at all ovet this thing because it has just been going on so long that I am used to it.

I did tell him, I felt it was inconsiderate and that he knew he was hurting me by doing it but was doing it anyway, and that was hurtfull and vengeful.

Nothing else I can really do at this point, but suck it up and have a stress free Holiday...

So, if you are used to it then he must feel it's okay and he's gotten what he wanted - a wife who will tolerate him dating. What reason does he have to stop?


Good. You should tell him how hurtful and destructive it is for a married man to be dating. And you should agree to nothing that enables his dating or makes it easy for him.


Sucking it up is what your WH wants you to do. Is that what YOU want to do? If not, then why are you doing it? And how stress-free can any holiday be when your husband is dating other women?
Mulan