"OW's script: This is really so hard for me to know that I've hurt anyone, but I must be with my true love. We are soulmates and can't be torn apart. I'm so sorry; we never meant to hurt anyone. (Flash puppy dog eyes and summon up a crocodile tear) BS is SOOO scary and crazy! Please WH, protect me! What WILL I do? I will help everyone see how wrong she was for you by having her arrested. Now everyone will know why you had to leave her, WH. Then we will be the victims and she will be the criminal, and everyone will come to accept our relationship. "

Bwaahaahaa - I THINK YOU'VE GOT IT!!!!!!!! It made me spew my coke all over the monitor.

Plan B required him to SEE her for who she REALLY is..he says that she couldn't keep up the "BS" 24/7. So, during Plan B, he began to miss ME....the ME that I was during Plan A...

So...begin to COMBAT HER by doing PLAN A...rise to your HIGH LEVEL..shine your LIGHT...be yourself..the "lovely" lady that you are....

What made your marriage vulnerable to this affair?

Good question, mimi. Although I didn't see it before, there were certainly issues on both sides. For my part, our first DS was born in 1995, 11 months after we married. At that time, WH was working nights, which was really hard on us both as I was still working. We lost virtually all of our "couple time." My dad was diagnosed with cancer in 1997. Our second DS was born a year later, and after taking a year off, I went back to work part time. So I was very caught up in parenting, a new job, and my dad's illness...along with the usual everyday responsibilities of life. But I won't let myself off that easy...the expectations I had for myself were higher than anyone else's expectations of me. I always had to do things right, perfectly, never leaving anything to chance. Never let anyone know that I wasn't perfect, composed, etc. No chinks in that armor.

I know now that I was so busy with all of that, I wasn't making our marriage a priority...I truly took it for granted.

My dad died in 2001, after an ugly, prolonged period of suffering. He held on for a long time. My mom was devastated...we all were; my dad was a wonderful, caring man who was well-respected and loved. His death was very, very hard on me. I know now that I was quite depressed, but at the time, I felt like I was getting through okay (the house was still clean, wasn't it?). Until the A, watching my dad die was the worst experience of my life. After d-day, I told my WH that one of the reasons I married him is that he had so many of the same qualities that my dad had. WH began weeping when I told him this.

So for my part, I think it was much of the stresses of everyday life taking my attention away from my marriage, my own unrealistic expectations for myself, and the death of my dad that distracted me and drew me into myself. There we have (check) motive.

For WH's part, he hates his job and has been for years sort of chronically depressed about that. About three years ago, his sergeant and another co-worker retired--both men were excellent role models of what it means to be a cop with morals and integrity. WH admired them greatly, but when they left I think he drifted. Without their grounding, his cynicism increased. He's highly intelligent, so he is incredibly bored by work. OW lives in the neighborhood and was a SAHM, so he'd stop by and chat with her from time to time. Due to his work schedule, he has a fairly significant amount of time off during the week when I am working (I work during the school day). There we have (check) opportunity.

He is also a HUGE conflict avoider and really a pretty poor communicator when it comes to feelings/emotions. There is only one time (@ 5 yrs ago) that he mentioned to me that he was not feeling happy/fulfilled in our marriage, but he couldn't articulate what was specifically the matter or what I could do. I got incredibly frustrated and blew up at him. ("What do you want from me?") Needless to say, he never said anything again, he just drifted away further and further. I was so busy keeping kids, home, work together that I didn't have time, nor did I feel responsible, for prying open his tightly locked emotional box.

When I look at ILs, things make a lot of sense. WH has a lot of PA tendencies that I believe come from his dad. His parents are very closed (although I am now very close with MIL) and harsh words and conflict--even diagreements!--are not tolerated. It's dad's way or no way. If that doesn't work for you, you better be ready to sweep it under the rug. I call their house Denialville.

Many changes that I have made came from ingesting a whole lot of humble pie. I am much more content to just let things be and not get to me...whether the kids are arguing or jumping around acting goofy, I don't feel compelled to straighten things out. The kitchen floor isn't mopped every Friday like clockwork...may not get mopped for a couple of weeks. Sort of an "it's not the end of the world" attitude. Who needs perfection, anyway?

Also, I feel much more compassionate, have much more humility, and feel more open than before. I've been forced to rely on others for help and guidance...and I never asked for help before. Now I do, and don't feel automatically like I'm a burden. I've had the good fortune to be able to be there for others (two friends are experiening marital problems and I've been a shoulder for them). So I know how good it feels to help someone in need...sort of like paying it forward. I also don't have that same sense of worrying what others think all the time. I've been degraded, locked up and rejected...look, I'm still breathing and my family loves me! I guess now I know what really matters. It all comes down to love. It's as simple as that. If I have that, I have what is important. No matter what happens, I know that I am still me, I am still whole because I have love. I'm just a little soggy sometimes.

That's probably more than what you were looking for, but thank you for asking. Composing it and thinking it through is therapuetic...but I'm guessing that's why you asked. (and if I spelled therapuetic wrong, I don't care...how's that for progress?) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LilSis

A question about in-laws. I mentioned before that denial is their standard operating procedure. They have allowed WH to live in their home since he moved out in July. I have had great difficulty with that and have confronted them on it many times. Their defense is that they love their son unconditionally and they'd like to be able to influence him in any way. They also claim that this situation is better for the boys...when they visit it is a familiar, comfortable environment for them. Finally, they think I would experience less harm financially because he will not be supporting two households.

I can (and have) refuted each of these. To me, unconditional love does NOT mean enabling your son's self-destruction. They refused to put a boundary on him that while he is living under their roof that he have no contact with OW. FIL seems to think that is unreasonable...I guess he thinks that WH can wean himself off OW ("What should we do, LilSis, put a GPS on him?"). If they established that boundary, to me it puts the realistic burden on WH...either honor it, cross it and subsequently lie to his parents, or find his own place. Those are the consequences; let them fall freely on his head.

As far as giving the boys having a familiar place...again...let WH deal with those consequences. I maintain that the damage done to the boys if they had to go someplace unfamiliar and uncomfortable for a few months will be far less than living a lifetime with a broken family. Same goes for finances...let him experience the true consequences! Guess what...child support is dictated by state guidelines so there's no hedging there. I'll get what I'm owed and it will be enforced by the state. I'm protected. He's the one who will have to figure out how to make a go of it.

So here's the current situation with ILs. My MIL left a couples of weeks ago to their winter place in AZ...ALONE! I believe she couldn't take it anymore, but is incapable of standing up to her H after 45 years of marriage in which she was controlled. She will be gone for Christmas--this is amazing to me! I go back and forth...is she just running away (denial) or is she standing up for herself in her own way?

When SIL and BIL #1 found out MIL would be out of town (and knowing I wouldn't be there), they immediately decided to do Christmas with SIL's parents in Canada. That leaves WH and FIL for Christmas. How sad and pathetic is that (imagine a Christmas dinner prepared by them...Hungry Man, anyone?). I can't believe (well, okay, I can) that WH feels no responsibility for driving his mom away. It would be a huge disappointment for the kids, who are accustomed to a delicous feast, a bustling house, lots of cousins, gifts, etc. (another consequence)

However, it seems other ILs won't allow WH to experience that consequence. BIL #2, his wife and three kids are now planning to come on Christmas Eve from Fargo. So it seems Christmas may not be so patheic after all. BIL will bail out WH by bringing some warmth into the home. Again, I'd rather have the DSs experience one pathetic Christmas Eve than a lifetime of Christmases split between mom and dad. BTW, Christmas Day at my mom's will include (as always) the delicious feast, presents, cousins, etc., so they won't feel completely gyped.

So finally, my question...do I point out to BIL and SIL that by celebrating like everything is wonderful and normal is doing a diservice to WH by not allowing him to experience the consequences of his actions? HELLO, Denialville!! Can't these people EVER acknowlege the elephant in the room?? BIL and SIL were VERY supportive of me when they visited this summer, but I have recieved only one email from SIL since...and it was in response to an email from me. No checking in, no "how are you and the boys doing," no "is there anything we can do," no "oh, we're so sorry you got locked up and we are thinking of you."

On the one hand, I feel like I should point out that pretending is not helpful and sort of call them on their denial/enabling...on the other hand it probably will do nothing to change their behavior. What do you all think? (This is total opposite of BIL and SIL #1 BTW, who live here in town and who have been there for me time and time again.)

Thanks, everyone.

LS

Using the ENs, as described by Dr. Harley as your reference, what specific ENs do you think that the OW meets? What are your WH's primary ENs?

Notice that I am saying that this is ALL ABOUT YOU.

Knowing about the OW is helpful for combatting the war but the main goal is to develop YOUR PLAN.

I ditto Mel ... this OW-drug-dealer seems nearly identical to the one who had her hooks in Mimi's H

Pep

Regarding your in-laws....



use this ....

write or call your in laws (I prefer to put it in writing so there can be less misunderstanding)

tell them something akin to this:

"It is my understanding that you have NOT choosen to require that H not see XXX while living under your roof.[color:"blue"](use OW's MARRIED NAME ... call her >>> Mrs whatever or >>> so-and-so's wife.... from now on whenever refering to her ... do NOT use her first name, ever...be sure to always reference that she is also still married)[/color]

I respect that is your choice to make. Thank you for letting me know.

I am certain that you'd agree, an adulterous relationship is inappropriate for my children to be around.

Because I cannot be certain the children are 100% free from Mrs XXX's influence when they visit you in your home, I am making the choice that you are most welcome and encouraged to visit the children in our home.

It is my duty to bring up the children with morals and values, and in order for me to do that, I must be vigilent that they are not exposed to adultery and disrespect for marriage vows.

Please call whenever you wish to visit the children. I look forward to many visits in our home."

see..... how this works

no DJ
respect for their decision
but making your decision as well


Pep

reach out to MIL
call her 2-3 times a week

my guess is ... she was once a BS and this has triggered her BIGTIME

call MIL
frequently
ask for her advice (even if you have no intention of following her advice)

"Mom, this adultery is just so cruel. Have you any suggestions of what I can do to protect myself and the children from all this hurt?"

"Mom, have you ever been in this position?"

get her to open up... she may prove to be a major ally in the future

seems she is fairly annoyed with her husband right now !!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

NO

do not POINT OUT anything


not your job to educate them .... unless they ASK.... and if one of them does ask .... there is a very useful, non-disrespectful way of stating your position... (more later)


YOU begin by saying something like "H's adultery-choice sure has put all of us in an awkward position, hasn't it?"

pause & wait for response

"I know it might make you feel that you are placed in a position where you have to choose ... but please, I value your friendship, and I don't want H's choice of adultery to come between us.

Please feel free to call or write anytime. Just to chat. It would help me so much to have family connections keep in touch. I feel so lonely at times."

see... friendly-like and NOT full frontal educational or confrontational ... just letting them know you value their friendship.... see?


I think doing that would DRIVE them away ... you want to build alliances in his family ... not break them


they probably know you better...

remember

an olive branch offered from your position as THE LIGHTHOUSE

is going to pay you dividends down the road

and when you Plan B your WH ... you open up MORE FREQUENT communications to his family ... something Mrs Ratturd cannot do at this time !!!!

You beat her to it.

Pep

Of course, I agree with my Pep 5000%..MRS. RATTURD...LOL...

Sis,

What's the nature of the interaction between you and WS? Phone contact? Does he come home at all?

Mimi <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think this M is sooooo ready for Harley method... such a great opportunity

Sis...>>> do NOT bad-mouth H in front of his family or his coworkers ... if you must blow off steam ... tell them something like:

"I have learned so much about myself from this experience. This experience has shown me the value of my marriage more than ever. I just HATE adultery. Adultery is so cruel and so antisocial."

in other words .... you bad-mouth [color:"red"] a d u l t e r y [/color] NOT your H

and become very obviously PRO marriage/family

you can Plan A indirectly, you know...

when you are talking to one of your BILs or SILs or FIL or MIL ... you admire something about your H .... something you miss....

"H is such a great kisser ... I miss those warm intimate moments so much"

many men have ADMIRATION as one of their top ENs

so you admire the heck out of H indirectly ... because his coworkers/friends/relatives WILL tell him the nice things you've said about him

Plan A is bitchin' !!!!!!!



see?

Pep

You know whats hilarious, OW in my sitch tried to play the victim card early on. She kept telling my then H how scared she was of me finding out they were having an affair. That she wanted him to protect her from ME. lol

Flash foward a few months later, and because he hadn't left me for her, I was the one needing protection from her.

All the advice Pep, Mimi and Mel are giving you is the right implementation of Plan A for you, Sis. You're getting support from the MB best and wisest.

We're rootin for you!
Jo

Bravo!!!

I love this!

I come home from church followed by lunch w/ BIL and SIL #1 and look at al the great advice I've got waiting for me! You women are GREAT!! Okay, so much to respond to; I’ll go through them one at a time.

RE the ENs: I believe one of his highest ENs that I did not meet was RC. He is 6’3” and very athletic. I am 5’1” with shoes on and not at all athletic. I’m not out of shape (I’m up to 97 lbs), I just am very uncoordinated and always have been. I would love to bike, hike or walk with him—and have told him so—but he would complain that I wasn’t fast enough (his legs are about a foot longer). Even biking he wants to go faster than I can really go comfortably. Just when the A got started, he and Mrs. Ratturd would go biking together on the trail near our house. She is bigger and more athletic than me, so apparently she could “keep up.” Ugh. Also, it worked to their advantage that they would go biking in the evenings, when I was home with the kids and her husband was home with their kids. How’s that for convenience. Apparently the two of them would also go running (he would say he was going to “walk the dog”…how right he was!).

His other big EN is admiration (Pep was right on with this). I’m sure OW(akaRT) showered him with it and really made him feel like a hero for rescuing her from her dismal, practically arranged marriage. Also, although he’s very intelligent and good at his job, he doesn’t get a lot of kudos because he is not at all ambitious, and doesn’t put himself out there to be rewarded. He quietly does his job, diffusing things rather an escalating them, but as a cop that’s not what gets noticed. I can absolutely work on this one, but it will feel VERY forced at this point. I can focus on the kids and his love for them, I think, without feeling like I’m totally blowing sunshine. And stuff like “that shirt looks nice.” (Ugh…what if OW bought it??) Just keep in mind that this is for the greater good…Gulp.

RE the ILs and suggested letter: Love it! and the way you use language is Pulitzer-worthy, but not sure that it would work as is. WH lives in their house, so that’s where DSs go when they spend the weekend with him. To be clear, ILs are very much opposed to WH’s relationship and OW is not welcome in their home (and never will be according to them). They have actively attempted to dissuade WH from continuing to see her, but again, my point is more about them failing to set a clear and decisive boundary that he should not see her AT ALL as long as they are providing a roof over his head. As it is, with no boundary, he’s cake-eating with them. That said, the way you frame the issue in the sample letter is very helpful in understanding the importance of HOW issues are addressed productively and respectfully. It certainly can apply to many situations.

RE relationship with MIL: We are very close, and she is an ally. It is actually easier to have a relationship with her now that she is in AZ and is not so enmeshed; she was feeling very much in the middle. She has not confided that she was a BS, but I have wondered given the propensity for this to run in families…it’s a possibility. I have opened up to her a great deal and she has seen first hand my pain, holding me while I sobbed uncontrollably. She also knows how concerned and fearful I am for WH…my feeling that he is self-destructing, and she agrees. She knows I love him. She has also seen me grow spiritually through this process, and we have had long spiritual conversations. In many ways we are closer than my mom and I. I will continue to talk to her a couple of times a week; we both enjoy it and it is very sincere.

RE relationship with BIL and SIL#2: Great advice; I thought my first reaction might be wrong. I am seeing that this involves a lot of hard swallowing and not going with the emotional reaction, being a lighthouse even with extended family (this is an a-ha! moment for me!). Based on this insight, I will actually reach out to them while they are here to facilitate interactions between the cousins rather than waiting for them to initiate…you are right…this will pay dividends later with both WH and ILs. You women are GREAT!!

RE contact with WH: Limited to phone contact. I always have to leave a message on his cell…he usually won’t answer if he sees it’s me…then he will call back. Our phone interactions have been very brief, but friendly as of late. When he drops off the kids, he just pulls up in the driveway. When he comes to pick them up and they don’t come out, he stands outside the kitchen window. Should the kids and I “be busy” upstairs so he has to knock, come in, whatever, to get our attention? Anything to get him in the house where it smells like his favorite cookies and his favorite kitty can rub up against his leg? (Am I getting this now, ladies?)

RE no badmouthing/yes admiration: As I mentioned, I think admiration is one of his top ENs, and one I totally failed to recognize (I always thought he was SO self-confident that he didn’t need validation that way…I was dumb). The example quote you gave (“I have learned so much about myself…”) is almost verbatim what I have said repeatedly to MIL (and she is truly proud of me)! Yay! And the thing is, it is the truth! I’m sure I will have the opportunity to say the same to BIL and SIL#2 when they come for Christmas. I was even fairly kind about WH in talking to BIL and SIL#1 today (which is actually hard since SIL is almost militantly anti-WH). Hey—I’m doing well on this one! Hooray for me!

So help me do better…does it work as well when I refer to admirable qualities that he USED to exhibit? (see next paragraph) Or should I refer to good qualities he currently has (that’s a shorter list, frankly).

Please give your opinions on this: I’ve been telling the kids that when their dad and I married, I admired him so much: he was so compassionate, intelligent, kind, caring, fun—and I’d like for them to grow up to be just like that man. Unfortunately, (I go on) he’s not acting that way so much right now but we can all pray that part of him will begin to show itself soon. I very much want them to be proud of their dad, know he’s not completely evil, and recognize his admirable qualities…but neither do I want them to think his current behavior (not necessarily adultery, but not honoring commitments, hurting others, etc.) is in any way acceptable. When you make a bad choice, you need to recognize what you’ve done, stop doing it, clean up your mess, and apologize. Basic playground rules. This strategy won high marks with DS school counselor in terms of DS well-being…what do you think in terms of Plan A, Drs. Pep and Mimi?

Have I mentioned that you women are GREAT!! This is unbelievable. I can do this, I know it…now that you’ve told me what to do and how to do it. Time to knock some socks off and prepare to go dark. I was thinking mid-January, about the time OW’s D becomes final. I’m sure the pressure will be on at that point. She will no longer have any legal restrictions on contact between WH and her kids (her STBX required that), so I’m sure she expects WH to become Mr. Brady to her Carol Brady ASAP. Any reactions to this idea of a timeline?

Have I mentioned you women are phenomenal?

As usual, feedback is most welcome!
LS

How about calling him on his cell and leave the MESSAGE that you were thinking him and are calling TO HEAR HIS VOICE...CLICK...

Start doing this MORE OFTEN.. but not every day..."Hi, how are you?".."it's me again"..."Xmas reminds me of the time when we"...cheery..uplifting... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Need any HELP with anything around the house?

hey mimi

should i call and leave those kinds of messages too? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If I catch you doing this, Eav, your neck will be wrung along with your WH's.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Dear Sis (97 pounds of piss & vinegar & sugar & spice)

you are a quick study <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

here is one more thingy ... when H's "affair" comes up in any conversation ... without correcting the other person ... YOU always call it ADULTERY ... and not "affair"

when one says "affair" ... one thinks of Deborah Kerr and Cary Grant at the Empire State building, ya know?

"Yes, H's adultery has been a spear through my heart, but I am tough and I think our marriage can survive adultery, if we both make an effort."

Hang tough & listen to Mimi ... she's the best advice giver .... you'll see.

Pep

LOL at Eav! you brat! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The "ALWAYS HAVE BEEN" is the key here that should tell you that he is NOT ATTRACTED to her body type or athletic prowess. It was probably the admiration and attention she provided..showing INTEREST in his activities.

Your WH continues to be ATTRACTED to WHATEVER HE INITIALLY FOUND TO BE ATTRACTIVE ABOUT YOU...This is your ACE IN THE HOLE....I had forgotten these things..and when I went back to those BASICS, it BLEW HIS MIND...I heard him say stuff like: "Why did you stop doing etc., etc....this is what I wanted you to start doing again...

Remember: The OW is just learning about him. It's FUN in the beginning of a "DATING" relationship BUT you ALREADY KNOW the TOUCHES, the SAYINGS, the MOVES, the RECIPES..without having to ASK HIM..without having to GUESS...this is YOUR MAN..MAKE CLAIMS ON YOUR TERRITORY....



It's alright if it feels FORCED. It takes PRACTICE and you will become more comfortable with this. It will begin to come naturally. YOU WILL BE UTTERLY SURPRISED BY HOW HE WILL LAP UP ANY AND ALL ADMIRATION LIKE A PUPPY!!



ANY AND ALL ADMIRATION WILL DO...It will FEEL like OVERKILL because you probably are not accustomed to doing this...it is what we were supposed to be doing as wives because MEN LOVE THIS...showing appreciation and RESPECT.. it's what the OW are so GOOOD at....especially the HOish OW like ours...YUCK!!!!