This is what I tell myself. If my WS REALLY wanted a divorce, wouldn't they have gotten one by NOW?

Afterall, my WW has been telling me that she wanted a divorce since August, and she has only talked to a lawyer once for 20 minutes, and that was right after I exposed.

Well, my WH filed in October, so I guess he really does want one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> It truly disgusts me that he would spend money--our money, and lots of it!--to destroy our marriage and our family...but couldn't take the time to go to one MC session. But that's the crackhead WH...right, everyone? Absent of any logic, reason, morality, or integrity....just get the fix no matter the cost. He will crash, it won't last, ratturd will not win and destroy my H and father of my children.

Okay, I was depresed after writing the first sentence, but then I bit back. See? See? Gettin it...gettin it! (pat self on back)

Hosea, huh, Neak? Nighty, night, all.

Jim and LilSis -

Affairs always end. Hang your hope on that.

Just curious.

I've never seen it mentioned here or maybe I've forgotten, but when in Plan A, is it appropriate to ever say anything, even just in passing, about OW? Or should the BS just act as if she doesn't exist, not worth even mentioning, etc. Needless to say, any comment about OW would be negative...

My sense would be act as if she doesn't exist, but maybe I'm wrong and some occassional well-aimed skewers might find a mark.

??

I think it is better not to focus attention on her. Gives away some of your power. Anyway, I talked a lot about OW, and I'm divorced now.

Believer is RIGHT ON TARGET.

Recall what I told you yesterday and other stuff many of us have said.

She's filling his LOVE BANK and he's HOOKED ON HER so he experiences EVERYTHING about her as being WONDERFUL. She is GOD'S GIFT TO HIM..his TRUE LOVE..a PERFECT WOMAN...I know, YUCK..but this gives you the flavor of your foe....

So any negative talk about her brings him to her DEFENSE..you have to be perceived in his mind as the BAD GUY anyways who is standing in the way of him getting his FULL FIX of HER....

Your goal is to IMPLANT MEMORIES OF YOU..to be STORED..for him to RETRIEVE LATER when he begins coming to grips with who she REALLY IS because she will be UNABLE to adequately MEET HIS NEEDS....

LilSis,

You're really gettin' it and even your senses are leading you in the right direction. No negative comments about OW. Not only does it give her power but it makes him feel the need to defend her. And you DON'T want that!!!!

You can be STRATEGIC though if you think there are indirect comments that you can make to combat the affair.

For example, I was able to hint that the OW will try to get pregnant because I knew that it bugged her that she was not the "MOTHER OF HIS CHILDREN"..he said she would "CRY" when he told her our birth stories...DOUBLE YUCK...

Anyways, so I would say stuff like: "I'm sure glad our kids are grown up now; "I wonder how older people cope with having babies, etc....

Plus, OW had a young teenage daughter and my H had a terrible time coping with our sons' adolescence..so I would remind him about the difficult times with our sons...

These points were instilled in his mind prior to PLAN B ...at the suggestion of folks here... and it turns out that he also kept these points in mind.. H "HATED" HER DAUGHTER AND SHE HIM..plus THE OW WAS SCHEMING TO GET PREGNANT...

Thanks, everyone. Everything you said makes perfect sense. Just to be safe, I'll keep my trap closed and my smiled glued on. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

mimi: To your point about OW's kids. I can't imagine that OW's son (the one who was such good friends with DS11) will be particularly receptive to WH's new role in his life, especially if he's smart enough to figure out (even at an unconscious level) how he was decieved and used for so long. And it will HAVE to affect WH deep down when he spends time with OW and her kids...knowing he's not with his own boys, that they are missing out. OW's kids totally lack the intellectual curiosity of our boys...and I'm not just saying that because I'm their mom.

What breaks my heart is how "close" WH was, even before d-day, to OW's youngest son, who's now 5. I wish I could ask WH with whom he has the more abiding relationship: our DS8 or OW's 5 year old. I think I kow the answer. Yuck, Yuck, Yuck!! (don't worry, I won't ask!)

Thanks, all.
LS

Ark helped me to BELIEVE that people can CHANGE...

At one point, I was willing to ACCEPT that my H and our YS would never have a good relationship because our YS was at home during the A and my H, like your H, seemed to be more distant from him...

My H is SOOOOO changed in terms of his parenting. To me, it's a MIRACLE...

Just last night, he and our son were having the BEST TIME with each other...

This is why I'm such a BELIEVER...

I SOOOO pray this for you and others....

HAPPINESS..regardless of the outcome of your marriages...HAPPINESS for YOU and YOURS....

And the answer is:

E. I was already ralphing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I just ate 5 soda crackers, my first solid food since Wednesday night. (The two pieces of garlic bread I ate yesterday afternoon didn't stay around long enough to count. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />)

As I told heartbroken, if your WH brings up the subject of the OW you may be able to glean some useful intel from it, but other than that, focus on the two of you. She is nothing.

It doesn't matter if he already filed. He'll still change his mind when the aliens return his brain.

LilSis:

Quite the story.

When I first happened on your other thread, I thought you had alot of work to do. And since Dec 10th, you seem to be doing it.

Remember my perspective. I am the WH. For 4.5 years. So, I will try to get into your WH head for a little while and help you succeed in the Plan A.

Do not be concerned with how OW looks. It played a role in attracting your H's further Attention, but nothing else. You knew this women for many years before the A, so something finally turned it inot an A. You are slim, trim and great looking. Remember that. So OW started feeding him the other things (EN's) that he needed.

You stated that H seemed to be depresssed when your YS hit 2 years old. This may be true. Probably not. What else was going on? When my son was born, my wife became superMOM. And many of my needs were unmet. Any many of my problems as a man and Husband were exposed to even a greater light, and I was not meeting the most mimimal standards as expressed by my W. Your two children could have certainly pushed him further in these directions. SO, the affection, admiration, and SF he used to get from you diminishes and criticism for not being a great Dad, father and H increases. And you are under alot of stress as well. OMG, you have two children now! In hindsight, we can see these things alot clearer than we did at the time. When the whole Dr. Harley and EN's idea was revealed to BS and I, alot more stuff made sense. Remember that. You have gained knowledge from here, that WH has not had the benefit of. Maybe later, when you know that recovery is in place, you can show him HNHN and start building a great marriage.

Your H is cool to you, reacting to your whispers about panties, etc. like you are his sister. Right now, you are his sister. Keep up the gentle but firm pressure as noted by Mimi, Pep, Neak and that Wild and Crazy Lapdancer Mel. Show the opportunity for love that you have. OW can not compete with you. Mine couldn't, I just took OW on a 4.5 year ride. But OW met my needs for something else, Conversation, Admiration and Affection, that I was not getting from BS. Adventure with OW, the secret of it all was a rush. My BS and I now have that type of relationship. She dresses a little naughterer, Talks to me a little dirtier, Shows me admiration for the work I do and the things that I do accomplish. Definately not acting like my sister. This is side you need to show. You had it before, It just has to come back into every day life.

I would recommend, that you propose that one night a week, your H comes to your H and spends the evening with the kids and puts them to bed. It's his house and family. After the kids bedtime, you can return from being "out". It gets him back involved with the Kids. You do not have to be in the house, just elsewhere. You can go to IL's I guess, or a friends, do not hide from him at least on this night! But he can spend time with the kids, tucking them into thier OWN BEDS, and you get to see him at the end, to kiss him and say "Careful-love you-bye." as he leaves. He does this two-three times, watch how long he lingers when you return....

Takes him away from OW. And it makes him a Family man.

LG!!!

LOVE IT!! LOVE IT!! LOVE IT!!

LISTEN TO HIM, SIS!!

As I told LG before, he is so speaking the words of my FWH..following his script..and I think the script of Sis' WH...

THIS IS ALMOST EXACTLY OUR STORY as you describe below: ( and a lot of what I've been trying to communicate to, Sis... from a BW's perspective... Now, the perspective of the WH...)



WHAT A HUGE BLESSING FOR SIS TO HAVE YOUR PERSPECTIVE, LG!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yep!! Like I said,,he wants YOU, the GF you, back again.

Great, great stuff! Thank you SOOO much, LG. It does provide a wonderful perspective. The description of your pre-A relationship with your W sounds like it could have been written about my life. So similar. And with mimi saying the same thing...it's just interesting, isn't it? I did become supermom...working, keeping home, volunteering. H fell to the bottom of the priority list (yikes, it hurts to say it), and I did feel like he began to fall off in his contributions to family life. Almost like the more I did, the less he did. I owned it, he didn't. It's no wonder commitment was lost. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> BTW, I'd love the opportunity to be naughtier, etc.

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the idea of having him put the kids to bed. More important even than the impact on WH, it would do wonders for the DSs--truly!! They would fall all over themselves with glee. That's got to be some kind of drug, too, doesn't it?? (I know it is for me...)

But I'm so excited to share my update with you all..so let me cut to that. Three good things, no bad (so far...)

1. My best friend (LilSisSis, aka LSS) came over to hang out with me today as both sets of kids had school. She is a FBS, just recently entering recovery and still struggling with a FWH in withdrawl. So we have TONS to discuss and can understand each other completely. We often say that we are fated to cross paths in life...we've been friends since 9th grade gym, roommates in college, I met WH through her, we were each others' maids of honor, our Hs ended up working for the same PD, we were pregnant together, gave birth to our first children on the same day, and this summer, discovered we were both being cheated on at the same time. Kinda weird, huh?

Anyway, I confided to her about Plan A/B, and she was totally for it. As I'm sure many of you have experienced, most family and friends think WH should be shot, hogtied and kicked to the curb (and I don't even live in Texas!). LSS understands that it is not that simple when one's heart is involved. So she totally supported me...which reinforced my decision to pursue Plan A/B. No offense to all of my virtual supporters on MB, but now I have an actual body that I can confide in and gain support from. It also helps that she knows WH and I so well.

2. I also spoke to MIL. CHA-CHING!! She began to cry when I asked if she would help me be a part of Christmas Eve. She said my asking was an answer to her prayers. We spoke for quite a while, but LSS was here so I told her I'd call her tonight. I assured her that my focus now is to be a lighthouse, both for myself (because it represents my new-found strength and feelings of love overcoming the feelings of anger and resentment) and for WH (because he needs a light to find his own way out of the wilderness). She was so happy, and told me she was going to call FIL this afternoon to help make the Christmas Eve happen. She said that if she knew I were there, it would be the best Christmas present she could ask for. Maybe by tonight I will have more info. I hope FIL goes along with it....fingers crossed (or little prayers, whatever works for you), everyone, please!!

3. I had also called WH today and left VM of course:
"Hi handsome, it's me! It's good to hear your voice, even though it's just the recorded version. Just wanted to make plans for tonight. I'd like to pick up the boys because we have something we need to do here at home before they come over to your place, assuming that's what you are expecting. Give me a call so we can work it out, thanks! C-LY-B."

He called but left no message at about 2:30, then I called him at about 5 when the boys and I had finished our craft project (the picture and frame for him). He said he was at the store and would stop by on his way back. I quickly ran upstairs, fluffed and primped a minute, sprayed some perfume, and packed the kids bag.

When I came downstairs (commando now), I saw his truck parked in the driveway, and he's standing out there looking around aimlessly. I figured when he was tired of standing out there, he'd decide to come in. After a couple of minutes, I just went to the back door and said with a smile, "Are you going to just stand out there all night?"
WH: Can you send them out, please?
LS: --head toss, signaling, come on in--he does, and we stand there together in the back entry. I just look at him expectantly.
WH: Where are the boys, watching TV?
LS: Of course, what else? (with a smile)
WH: Would you go get them for me, please?
LS: Why don't you come on in and get them yourself?
WH: My shoes are wet.
LS: No biggie, just wipe them on the rug. I don't care.
Go to the living room, where the boys are watching TV. WH goes up to DS11 and begins to tickle his feet. I joke about how stinky they are and WH smells them and gives a big pee-yew. DS8 laughs. I tell DS8 to let Daddy tickle his feet, too. No, he laughs! Don't tickle me! Okay, just a little. Big smile (LS's heart melts).
WH: Okay, boys, let's go.
We all slowing make our way to the back door, and DS's take forever as usual getting shoes and coats on.
LS: Oh, you guys forgot your bag.
WH: DS11, run up and get the bag.
DS: Is it packed, mom?
LS: It's left over from the last time you were at your dad's. Everything's clean. Just check it out and if you need something, get it out of your dresser. (stalling for time, here...)
DSs run upstairs.
WH: Will you pay the house insurance and taxes? (looks sheepish)
LS: No, I have a huge credit card bill this month (with a smile) Besides, that's your responsibility. It's in the agreement.
WH: Hmmm...I haven't recieved an agreement.
LS: Do you want to see a copy?
WH: No, that's okay. I wondered why you put that stuff in with my mail.
LS: Well, here, let me show you the agreement, I don't mind.
WH: No, no, that's okay. I'll take care of it.
LS: (with a smile) Well, there's another alternative.
WH: (with a little laugh) yeah, I know.
Boys come back down and there's a little chaos as the finish getting ready
LS: Bye, boys (hugs, kisses)
WH and boys start to head out the door.
LS: Wait a minute. (boys continue walking out and WH turns back. I reach for the zipper on his jacket and pull him towards me. I go to kiss him on the lips and he turns his head away, so it lands on his cheek. We hug, his is one-armed, mine is nice, but it does last a little longer than it needs to--definately not a drive by hug. As we let go, I go to kiss him again and he says no. I say with a smile, why not? and he just shakes his head. So I give him another kiss on the neck this time and give him a nice good hug.
LS: (while hugging) Okay, then, well have a nice weekend with the boys. (we let go) And please give DS8 some extra attention? He really misses you and I know you'll figure out a way to make him feel special.
WH: Okay, maybe he can sleep in my room tonight.
LS: That would be nice. If you want, I am watching a movie tonight. You are welcome to come over after the kids go to sleep.
WH: (smiles) I think I'll stay with them.
LS: Well, your dad is there. It could be fun. I'm going commando again, you know. (if he had looked at all, he probably already did, because I'm wearing the size ones, which are still big and need to be hiked up all the time)
LS gives a wicked grin.
WH: (smiles) Thanks for the offer.
LS: If you change your mind...
WH: Thanks.
LS: Have fun. C-LY-B

Okay...reactions...comments...

I feel good, like I was successful, like I was a lighthouse, like I was fun and flirty the way I'd love to be with him! No pressure, no expectations, just me freely giving to him of myself, purely out of love and acceptance. Ultimately, the fact that I was true to myself and my feelings for my real H is really what's important, right? Honestly, I was a little nervous that I scared him off with the no panties stuff on Tuesday, but he didn't retreat or treat me coldly today, so I choose to take that as a good sign. I felt a little less "sister-ish" today. Just a teeny bit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, everyone--that is so insignificant, though. What a difference this has made to me in this experience. Now if Christmas Eve works out....

you did just GREAT !



WoW
sometimes this stuff gets me all choked up

Pep

I think you did GREAT. Teh stuff with the MIL could pay huge dividends.
The only thing I would continue to caution you on is risking your life (and the life of your children's mother) by having sex with him.
Otherwise... you should be writing a book on how to attract someone!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> This would probably sound a lot more appealing if I hadn't spent almost my entire professional life looking at, at getting a sufficent whiff of, the panty-less crotches of laboring women. But hey, don't let me stop anybody from trying to be sexy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

And here all this time I thought all that sniffing was to check and see if her fabric softener was working. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

t&l, who used to be Neak's mom, but who is now seeking anonymity <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Wow, thanks, MEDC. I'll write that book after I complete the Girlfriends Guide to Going to Jail. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Gotcha on the health issues. I'm clean...was checked in July after d-day. He was also checked out at that time, but that was before we separated. I don't think it's going to be an issue any time soon, though...getting WAY ahead of myself. He won't even kiss me, so I don't see us getting hot and heavy in the near future. He's got a soulmate, remember? I'm just trying to confuse him a little, is all. Make him wonder...catch him off guard (better yet, get him to let his guard down!)

LS

T&L Bwaahaahaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

LilSis

"He won't even kiss me, so I don't see us getting hot and heavy in the near future." Don't be too sure of that. We have had lots of instances where the WH showed up for some "married sex".