So what is Sis up to today? Any Plan A activities assigned?

New day, new year, boundless opportunities awaiting.

My sense is that mimi and MF are right, too. I can't back off now. The teeter-totter, remember? And it's just starting to move (hopefully). If I remove pressure, the teeter-totter will go back up. I need to keep sure, steady pressure...ever increasing pressure. I don't want to flip him right off the teeter-totter by pushing too hard, too fast. I think that's were MEDC and B are coming from...am I right?

I think I need to just tread carefully...I told MIL that I feel a little like I'm walking a tightrope. Only I know WH, and only I can gauge his responses through my filter of being married to him for 12 years. I do think the "hints" at SF are very appealing to him. I'll be a little more subtle for a few days, then something a little more "out there." The more subtle approaches certainly meet his need for affection.

It's as I've done all along...give you all the lay of the land, get your advice and counsel, and then do the best I can in a way that is true to the NEW me, is responsive to what I know about WH, and fits the particular cirumstances.

And these ARE sincere changes. I didn't think that I could do it, but I did...and found that I liked being a little more risque, I like being more affectionate. Each time I've "stretched," I was apprehensive...but ended up feeling really good about it. I've never been a risk-taker, but I'm finding I have that capability. How is that NOT growth? Besides, WH would LOVE it...OK, **WILL** love it when I'm like that after recovery.

I also think that the soft warmth is appealing, like a warm fire on a cold day. Not LBing. Being caring and approachable. Letting him know that I love him. Encouraging him to be with his boys. Suggesting that he call his brother. Being open, showing that I know him. I think it's the whole package...one piece is not more important than another, and some situations are just more amenable to feeding one need over another.

As far as the gift...it was in a gift bag, so it was impossible for me to tell if it had been "opened." It would have to be, though, wouldn't it? Who has that much self-control? I don't care who it's from...if someone hands me a present, I open it...just to SEE what's inside. Maybe that's just a girl thing.

I'm still really amazed he didn't return it this morning. Maybe he just forgot it.

LS

My orders for the week:
1. Call WH this evening and ask that he call me about arrangements for tomorrow. Thank him again for coming by to change the filter. Tell him it reminded me about the furnace filter, maybe that needs to be changed? Tell him how much it means to me that he's willing to help out with stuff around the house. C-LY-B

2. Arrange for WH to have the kids tomorrow, then while I am at my meeting, he can bring them back home to prepare for bed. When I return from my meeting, I'll be warm and inviting, maybe make a few suggestive remarks (hit on him a little), and BE SURE to hug and kiss him when he leaves. Maybe have a little project for him to do while he's here...like take out the Christmas tree? When I kiss him good-bye, whisper something affirming in his ear. I LOVE LOVE mimi's suggestion, "You know what I'm doing, don't you?..."

3. One evening this week, sneak by the ILs and leave one rose. Maybe put a little tag on it that says, "One."

4. Have FIL over for dinner or bring dinner there before he leaves for AZ. Invite WH to join us. He will decline, but at least he's been invited and gets the message that FIL values me and our relationship...that's not going to change. Leave leftovers for WH, including a batch of his favorite cookies.

5. Maybe send him a card with a nice note? Send a couple of emails with updates on what's going on with the kids at school, etc.

Any other suggestions??

I await my orders.

MEDC:
There are times when a 2x4 is needed, and other times when a feather is needed. Am I right? If so, I agree. I do think I'm clued into WH enough to judge when a 2x4 might be effective. I think he withdraws a little after a 2x4, but more because it is shocking, unexpected, and rocks his ridiculous little fantasy, not because it isn't appealing. Feathers have their place, too, and there is nothing wrong with a feather...everyone is ticklish somewhere... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But 2x4s keep things interesting, and I think well-timed and strategic 2x4 usage is critical. I want to keep his interest. Keep him wondering, what is she going to do next??

LS

Yep... keep both the 2 x 4 and feather in your aresenal. Use as needed. And as I have said many times here... you know your H best...so you will know how best to handle him. Good luck.

Anyone have the link to a post...I think was by ark or pep...it describes talking to the WS, looking into his/her eyes, telling him/her how you feel, sharing pain but with no LB, opening the door, and quietly walking away?

Sorry this is such a poor description, but I just read it the other day and now I can't find it. I'd like to read it again...

thanks
LS

Well, this isn't what you are looking for, but still good -

I wrote this to familymatters about plan a this am...and then I read sindy post on plan a...so I"m threadjacking myself...

putting out there some of my musings of plan a..


FIRST thing is that I strongly strongly believe that before you even begin plan A...that you make a time limit for it...with plans to go to Plan B...
that for plan b to be effective you must have a good plan a...and for plan a to be effective and have the stamina to hang in there and give so unconditionally you must have a time frame in mind for plan b.....

Plan A is ALL about the assumption that the WS is still in the affair or in contact...
this is your map to navigating those treacherous waters...

it also is your big moment to diffuse all the excuses WS are prone to use to justify their behavior and choices....

and more you can diffuse their blame...

the bs is "always depressed"
the bs "always wants to talk about relationships"
the bs "is controlling"
the bs "yells all the time"
etc....

the more you remove those things...and the more you remove yourself from any powerstruggles of insanse things...

he said she said..
etc...
the more your disengage from arguements..again the more they have look at their own actions and choices....

here's what I told familymatters..One of the biggest mistakes that people make in plan A is that they begin to meet their spouses needs....and still hold on to great expectations of reward and reinforcement from their spouse....

plan a is ALL about learning to give and do for a bit with NO expectation of ANYTHING in return...

the giving of self and gifts with no strings attached....

I have quoted the silly add campaign for some perfume in the 70's here before...but I think it fits....

It went like this ...

"if you want to get someones attention...
whisper."..

plan a is like a whisper of behaviors and actions...
plan a should not be huge demonstrative expressions of love and romance...

WS are incapable of accepting those things...
part of that is that their actions at the time of continuing an affair are NOT loving and lovable...
and they KNOW it..
sometimes they know it better than their BS...who still want to use words like love to them...

so they get resentful
or shut down
or depressed..
or it solidifies their belief that they are so "bad" or so far gone...it feeds into their excuse and defense of unworthiness...

plan a is about filling the home with love and light in other ways...

it about an upbeat environment without the deep doom cloud hanging overhead..

it is about a home filled with children's activities and joy when applicable and it is about inviting and drawing the wS into those times and activities....

and even when they refuse to come in to the joy...the joy goes on without them...

Oops - Written by Ark.......................

Thanks, B. Isn't this one great?? It's one of the ones I have printed out to remind myself. The one I'm referring to is different, though...

Maybe it was Orchid? Just thought it might ring a bell with someone.

Believer here (looking wildly around the site for looking in their eyes and walking away) -

If you are in plan A...
you should feel very empowered...

to look your WS in the eye...and keep strong eye contact the ENTIRE time you are speaking...

to speak in a soft, calm, clear voice....
lean towards
hold their hand
while you tell them

"you should know dear spouse...
you should know that each tiny second of pleasure that you obtain in talking to or being around the OP...

that each fleeting good moment visits upon me and others in your world that love you... magnified in to the thousands...
feelings of great
pain,
confusion,
and
sadness...
that I could never wish upon you or anyone...

that your contact has that effect on many many people...

and I really just needed to take a moment and make sure we are clear on that issue."



Walk away
slowly
without grand gestures
tears

speak the truth of your pain in a tone and clear language that leaves no room for rebuttal or powerstruggle..

speak it so the record stands...
not for a response of denial, blame

expect NO response
prepare for NO response

THANK GOD when you get no response...

let it hang there
let them ruminate
let them stew...

say it lovingly even...

in plan A speak your pain without accusation and blame..
but speak it clearly and concisely...


it is the truth
and
reality
the WS runs from.....
offer it small calm clear doses...

and they will be less likely to retaliate from the bitter taste of the truth...when offered in small small innoculous
doses

plant the seed
ARK^^


________________________________________

YES!! BELIEVER FOUND THE ONE I WAS THINKING ABOUT regarding the whispering...



but this one by ark is also good:

All of plan A is a huge huge huge exercise in love and giving...

it is NOT about doing for oneself...
it is ALL about doing for the WS....

and it is called plan A because there is a plan B side to it....

it is very difficult and humbling to give to someone causing so much pain....

which is why there needs to be an outlet...and there needs to be one or two others close that can take the brunt of the anger and frustration...

it is on one level a competition with the OP....
has vile and crass and horrible it sounds it is...

and plan A is about not letting an inch of wiggle room in your own behaviors and actions being turned in to a weapon to be used against you and the marriage....


a huge MO of affairs is the OP will act and behave on their best best behavior.....(falsely) (just more deceipt)
so that any emotional fall out by the BS will only feed the sick junkie mind (WS) that the BS is unstable and controlling and blah blah blah.....
as they get their perfect little OP fix....

let agree on facts of an affair...

it takes layering and layering upon layering of rationalization to justify affair behavior...

that WS are deep down good people....
(they dayum well better be cause if they are just crappy crappy people..then why are you wasting any time and energy trying to be married to someone who is crappy)

so WS are basically good people....choosing very very painful actions....

painful for ALL involved
themselves
the BS
the children and family
and even the OP

the burdon of rationalization justifying and living in direct constant dichotomy of what they know is right is an overwhelming painful burdon....

Plan A is about reaching out to the WS in pain..
EVEN as their junkie actions reaks havoc and pain....

as hard as it is, think of the stress a WS lives in trying to be good while the whole time choosing bad again and again...

WS tell lie after lie after lie..till it becomes them and they barely know how to tell the truth anymore....

BS through this need to remind them and show them the honor and glory in being a truthful person..

people who recieve the information upon exposure owe the WS that they care about them too not just place consequences but to help the WS become the person they are meant to be....

otherwise WS will cave and fold...
and figure they are in to deep
and it's so far gone there's no getting it back....

there must be joy in a home in which plan A is going on
there must be engaging
there must be attempt after attempt to reach out to them and show them that the saving of the WS own soul is of even greater priority than saving the marriage.....

bigger picture of what you want for a WS..is a whole person restored to valueing truth...honesty....integrety...

and while I feel bad for BS over and over again....
it is the WS that are truly lost....
truly hanging in the balance of right and wrong....

plan A is an act of sacrifice.....

ARK

YES! That's the one. Thank you, thank you!

Thanks, believer, for finding these two good ones and pasting them here for me and everyone else!

LS

Yes...you will eventually begin "SPEAKING YOUR TRUTH"...beginning your negotiation for ending the affair...

Come to think of it..you have been in preparation for this NEXT STEP...feeling more confident about your new self and your CHANGES...

...and this one, too, mimi! I had forgotten this one...now we have the ark trilogy. What a great roadmap.

Thank you!

We have got to stop posting at the same time!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I just added yet another arkie post...

Since it got shuffled down off the front page, just wanted to bounce the below back up here for input...I did #1 already...no response to the VM, but of course he's getting his fix today. I'm sure they were all about watching football together.

Which raised a question for me. Is there any value or harm in having a brief but honest--and one-sided I'm sure--talk with WH about the boys? He REALLY needs to step up to the plate with them. I know they are hurting, especially DS8. And honestly, if I weren't working part time (which will have to change as the D progresses), he would NOT have had the flexibility to spend any time with RT last week, because I would have been at work and he would have had to be responsible. So it's a boundary issue as well...I DO NOT want to enable their time together.

NO VALUE-LOTS OF HARM. Parenting is not his priority..no amount of talking to him about this will change that...puts you back into the parenting role where he wants to keep you...it's all about YOU and HIM, remember?...a WS is typically a poor parent..IMO, he's doing better than most...plus, this reeks of LACK OF RESPECT AND ADMIRATION...In his foggy mind, he doesn't need or want YOU to tell him what to do..

More tomorrow....

Okay. That would have been my guess, but I started thinking about the boundary issue/enabling. And I hadn't thought abut the "parenting role" that I'm trying to get out of.

FIL has been doing a fair job of reminding WH about his parental responsibilities, but he's almost outta here...

Thanks, mimi! I sleep so much better knowing I've got an army working with me, working out my battle plans, showing me the way. I'm not alone!

Within my Plan A I did and said some subversive things to indirectly attack the affair relationship itself.

Their relationship is sick

It's untrusting and completely based upon addiction

Any insecurity on one side, fuels desperation on the other

I did some little things to instill insecurity

One premise to consider..nearly all infidels discuss their spouses to ad nauseum. What they are doing, how they are reacting, what it means to them and their relationship, how neither should be insecure...WH, I believe, need to continually reassure OW that they are NOT going back to you.

Thus, you inject insecurity

Take as much of his time as possible
Call his phone freely
Leave text messages
Send him postcards with coded text or from exotic places the two of you have been (maybe get on your computer and make family picture postcards)
Send inocuous sealed snail mail letters which will make OW suspicious and insecure

Eventually, OW will get suspicious and begin snooping on him. If she finds just the right coded message on his cell that WH will not be wise enough to consider coded but will throw OW for a loop

For example:

WH,

thanks for taking care of that little plumbing problem I had tonight. Some things just take a man to fix..LOL. Hope we can get together again real soon.

<heart> LilSis


Another presumption...Anything I told my now FWW back in 2005 she repeated to OM. I used this to my advantage by making OM feel threatened without actually threatening him directly, making him feel inadequate, etc. Perhaps WH's don't talk as much as WW's but OW I'm certain is inquisitive about EVERYTHING you two discuss everytime you two are together. However even if he's careful...waywards behave stupidly and without consideration. Perhaps drop things in that others have said about her, inocuously, without drawing too much attention to it. You never know what WH will repeat and then have to deal with a fight from OW because her insecurities were nailed. WH will be blindsided because much had been so hunky dorry in affair land. Suggestions...maybe she has a big butt, big feet or a ackward nose...mention that someone else commented on it and see if WH is stupid enough to repeat it to her. It's passive aggressive as all heck...but this is war.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- My sister used to live around Grandhaven...Coast Guard Fesitival was a tradition back in the single days. I'm only guessing y'all are in that area...as my wife said, we are in Detroit.

p.p.s. - Also, have you found the article "31 Reasons to stop an Affair". Might be a good e-document to slip into his car or bag (you don't want to hand it to him as YOU can't teach him...he's more likely to read it out of curiosity than direct request.). There's a website you can go to, sign up and get it free or just Email my wife and I at the below address and we can send it to you as a friend. (though we will be driving home from our holiday visit to the in-laws in Detroit all day tomorrow)

Happy New Year, Everybody!

LilSis,

Mr. W. has some good points.

Here's another little seed that you might figure out how to plant in your WH's brain.

I'm getting the impression that OW might be a "high-maintenance" woman. She's still married to an attorney (who presumably earns good money), doesn't work any kind of job that amounts to anything...and probably doesn't ever plan to, and probably has expensive tastes.

So......maybe we need to brainstorm some ways to get your WH to thinking about how much it would cost to actually live with RT. After all, he will have to pay CS to you and split assets with you, so he's going to have to stretch his pay quite a bit. Right now, he doesn't have it so bad, since he's living at his parents' house, but I'm quite sure that RT is going to want a nice house, keep dressing in expensive clothes, etc. (including NOT WORKING!)...all things that will require quite a bit of money. I don't think she is going to do very well, going from enjoying the financial benefits of being an attorney's wife to living on what's left of a cop's salary after he pays CS to you.

I'm braindead at the moment, so maybe somebody else can help you figure out how to plant this lil' seed.