Well, I made some pizza rolls (I know, gross, it was a college indulgence that tasted much better in college), fixed my VOIP phone connection, and I'm going to make myself a big mug of hot chocolate and take a bath.

...and I'm leaving a big mess in the kitchen! Take that, Miss P.

No one told you to go this far...ICK.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

If your Plan A wasn't affecting your husband, he wouldn't have a problem with contact with you.

These new feelings (Plan A results) that are pulling at him frighten him. He doesn't trust them, its confusing and uncomfortable for him. His solution is to retreat, avoid and deny.

These new feelings are not the way he felt about you pre-Plan A. Now he's starting to SEE YOU again. The you he loved as his wife. Every sense of the you that he loved when you two were tight in your marriage.

If he keeps constant contact with the Plan A YOU, he will have no reason or excuse why he is with OW. So he runs.

You are on the right track. Gain strength knowing you are doing all the right things, being the best YOU.

Jo

Sis,

These are the four values I try to live by. Learned them here on MB. Just thought I'd share with you in case it will help you:

[color:"blue"]
- Live impeccably in your word
- Don't take anything personally
- Make no assumptions
- Do your best, always [/color]


Best,
Jo

ONE OF MY FAVORITES, JO!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And, since #9 is POJA, you aren't going there yet.

Though he is talking about ordinary M's here and not M's in the throes of A's, you can still make the application.

For him to enter a state of conflict is wonderful - it is the bridge to intimacy from indifference, upon destruction of the A and commencement of R.

Good news!

Thank you, everyone. That doesn't capture it, though; I am so, so very grateful to all of you here. I could not do this without you. You have no idea...and I can never repay you. I long for the day when I am an expert like all of you and can give advice and counsel from a vantage point of having "made it through," one way or another. I admire each of you so much.

However, I am making a promise to myself that I will NOT rely on this board today. I'll make this post and get busy cleaning house in a way that I cannot do with two boys underfoot, so that I can enjoy going to the mall with my friend later.

But...it is morning and it's very quiet. No little voices asking please, please for chocolate chip pancakes and bacon. No adult conversation about the news over morning coffee. I miss my family, my whole family.

MIL and I talked last night, really late. She was down. She had two "less than productive" talks with WH (most certainly not H) on Thursday and Friday. WH called her on Thursday to ask her about FIL, who has been acting cold and distant to him. WH wondered if there was something going on with him other than WH's "situation." (I think from talking to FIL last night that it's a matter of him feeling so torn about leaving...knowing he HAS to leave, but not really wanting to and feeling that he's somehow failed his son, his grandchildren, and me) WH also complained to MIL about how BIL/SIL had FIL over for dinner and WH was not invited, and that when out-of-town BIL was visiting last week, there was a great deal of distance between them.

MIL told WH that part of having a mature relationship is being open and honest, and sharing one's feelings with people you care about. "You should ask Dad," was her response to his question about FIL. He was so WH-ish on the phone that she said she was cold. She has no interest in talking to this stranger that she doesn't like at all. She and I talked about what WH's expectations could POSSIBLY be...he is committing this horrible act, is harming his children, is on a path to self-destruction...and he expects his family to just shrug, say, "oh well" and act as if everything is hunky dory? What responsibility is HE taking in repairing and maintaining relationships with his family? His crack-addled mind apparently tells him he has no responsibility to do that...it tells him that relationships are a one-way street.

He said something to MIL to the effect of, "welll, if that's the way everyone feels, I'll just make it on my own..." I think this is where MIL just shook her head and gave up on THAT conversation, in dispair.

I'm not certain of the context of yesterday's conversation between MIL and WH, but it was another unsatisfactory one from her perspective. Apparently he did tell her about our conversation the other evening...that he felt good about it. He mentioned the word "friendship." UGH. I told MIL that I have NO interest in being his friend, ONLY his wife, but that will come later. Plan B....

Anyway, I assured her that I am still on my path to connect with H. I shared with her the analogy that someone here posted about the H being held hostage, and me smuggling in escape tools and food to fortify H, give him strength. I will not give up...and I know from my own experience that growth takes time, and it can be very dark, and it can seem as if no one, even God, is there. But I emerged--a better person emerged--and I have confidence that the same can be true of H. It just takes time, and happens in its own way according to God's plan.

I reminded her that WH has a lot more [censored] to walk through than I did to get to his better place. We shouldn't be surprised if it takes a lot more time to slog through it, especially when there's someone pulling him back into it. Usually MIL is my crutch...last night I was hers. It felt good, finally repaying someone in a tiny way.

So...onward with Plan A. Battle plan for today:

1. VM WH: Hi honey. Missed you last night. Hope you had a good night with the boys and that FIL got off okay this morning. I gave him some road cookies, but I still have plenty left for you, too. I have a roast that I am going to put in the crock pot tomorrow, and I'd love it if you would help me eat it, along with mashed potatoes and gravy of course. While you are here, it would be wonderful if you could take care of the Christmas tree for me. Please give me a call so that we can make arrangements for church. I will bring the boys back to you after church; it means so much to them to spend that time with you. Then you can all come back for dinner later on! TTYL, C-LY-B.

2. I thought about TMing one word...a place where we got creative....

I know he will say no to #1...but at least the offer is there and he is reminded of how much he likes my cooking (better than RT, he has told me). It's all I can do given that he literally flees from my presence...unless anyone has additional suggestions...???

Thank you again, everyone. I know the "conflict" is a good sign, but it doesn't really FEEL like it if you know what I mean. It FEELS more scary.

LS

Get busy cleaning LS. Stop thinking.

One good way to keep the whole house looking great is the minimum maintenance plan - 5 minutes every day in every room. I get the whole place done that way, and it only takes me 35 minutes a day. I turn on some good music, and set the timer, and spend 5 minutes in each room. It's amazing what you can get done in 5 minutes.

Of course, I no longer have any little ones undoing my efforts as fast as I move.

LilSis

I think it is useful ( useful for yourself) to share what you have learned about Plan A with jrobin

it does help her, but it also helps you

when you share what you have learned ... you get personally stronger inside yourself

you don't need to be an "expert" at this stuff to help others

some of my more important insights came because I was trying to help others

you need to be certain helping others does not consume too much of your psyche ... but I doubt you will do that

you ALREADY have enough experience/insight to share with others

until you are stronger, I advise you stay off threads where there is a lot of argueing amongst posters ... too distracting and energy suckage is detrimental

and for heaven's sake, stay away from any of the infamous OW/OM sites on the web ... they will mess you up big time

Pep

Sis:

I find, especially YOU, but also youur situation to be AMAZING for many different reasons.

For one, you are so INSIGHTFUL and have so much WISDOM about this. Your EMOTIONAL SENSITIVITY is apparent. It most certainly is a MAJOR LOSS for your H not to have YOU in his life. I'm certain he is a better person having been married to you. Perhaps he grieved the LOSS OF YOUR ATTENTION..to your sons..because your ATTENTION was so SPECIAL and WONDERFUL to him.

Second, it's AMAZING how your WS is saying and thinking someof the very SAME things as my H did. So often this all seems so SCRIPTED...like they are reading the steps off in some sort of WS MANUAL...wanting to be "FRIENDS" (YUCK)..."I'll just go off by myself then" (YUCK)..I heard all of that CRAP....

Another issue is the relationship between your H and his mother...sounds so much like the dance my sons play with their father and I..now that they are young men...when our OS, who is really close to his Dad now, is displeasing his Dad or has displeased his Dad, he checks in with me to try to encourage me to ENABLE his actions and to step in for him..to try make things RIGHT with his father..the NEW ME fully supports his father's more hard-nosed approach because I know now not to be triangled in and that's what "men" need..the toughness....My response has to be: "Your D is right..I support him 100%..you need to talk to HIM about this..this is between you and him"

That being said..I think the FAMILY DYNAMICS that are going on in your situation are KEY..Your H is wanting his parents to ENABLE his A...to sanction it(CRAZY, I know)..like any other addict wants the family to enable their addiction..the more that they do not do this, the better.. and it will be KEY for you to support them in this..it seems that there has definitely been a change and they are doing less ENABLING...

Plus, it is sooooo GREAT that he has a close relationship with them and it is DEFINITE that he will lose this if he pursues the R with her..This is a man who already feels that his parents prefer his brothers..In his dark hours, he will have to face seeing himself as a LOSER who does not measure up to his parents' expectations...his actions are not condoned by them..that is what he is wanting and wishing for...he will have to look to the OW to fill up that HOLE as well..the loss of love deposits from his family...SHE WILL HAVE TO TRY TO BE MOTHER, FATHER, BROTHER, WIFE....From a logical point of view, she seems DOOMED TO FAIL....

You have set all of this in motion, Sis..and your WH is in GREAT TURMOIL as we speak...

When in such turmoil, he will do all that he can to try to make his relationship with her work and to get as HIGH off of her as he can..but his HIGH won't be the same as it was before...that's why he is running from you...he wants to maintain his HIGH and your ASSAULTS are VENOMOUS...

To me it's like DRACULA RUNNING FROM THE CROSS or any signs of DAYLIGHT....fleeing from SANCTITY and GOODNESS..trying to remain in the DARK....

now come'on

if that visual does not make you chuckle
sompins' wrong in da'haid

use this visual LilSis ... it's a good'un

Pep

And Plan A/B is the stake in Drac's heart that turns WAYWARD HUSBAND back into HUSBAND.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Disillusion: 1. The act of disenchanting 2. The condition or fact of being disenchanted

Disenchant: To free from illusion or false belief; undeceive


WH desperately needs to be disillusioned and disenchanted by MIL that she is going to end up being OK about this all in the end. WH is sitting there crying to her on the phone about the situation and how you two are going to end up friends. It is apparent to me (especially after the "woe is me" complaints about his brothers behaviors to mom) that WH presumes that in the end Mom and him are going to remain Mom and him no matter what.

Now...eventually this may be true. He is her son and it would be foolish to believe that she'd forever write him off. However, NOW it would be very nice if MIL made it very, very, very clear to him that a relationship with OW will NEVER be OK with her. That she specifically clarify that she will NEVER accept OW as a part of her family, that no matter how many years go by that OW will never be allowed into her home or heart. I'm sure WH has probably even said..."but mom, I think you would really like her...she's nice and smart and funny, etc". MIL response "Bullpocky, she's an evil interloper and will NEVER...EVER...NEVER...EVER...NEVER...EVER....NEVER..be acceptable to this family". She must repeat herself often...he's a wayward and they are kinda hard of hearing or at least hard of understanding.

When discussing this with MIL you can be pleasant about it and indicate that perhaps 5 years from now, when all is settled she CAN change her mind. However, NOW it would be most helpful if WH had no inclination that it will EVER be OK.

Now if MIL was so inclined...she could push even harder and completely allign her loyalties with you and the grandchildren. It would seriously be a lot more helpful if she told her son she and FIL WILL eventually disown WH if he follows through with this affair and divorces you. Even writing him out of their Last Will and Testament. I think she could indicate that the day he ever marries OW she and FIL will NOT be there...they will be at their attorney's office writing YOU and your kids in the will in place of WH. Then, when you go to Plan B, so should they maybe a few weeks later. Again, when all is settled a few years from now...she can certainly change her mind...but don't tell WH that. He must be DISILLUSIONED of the notion that everyone will eventually be OK with it and happy in the end.

WH needs to hit rock bottom. Being an addicts "friend" merely enables the behavior. Being strong, being firm, delivering tough love will go a lot further than just listening and trying to be supportive while at the same time giving the addict audience. I'm betting WH believe Mom will always be there. If she pulls away he may ACT, at first, like it doesn't bother him but he's a cop, a man of honor...dishonoring YOU and MOM...well, eventually, likely quite soon, that will just be too much...I hope.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - Like Pep said, you are already an expert. I've actually been at odds with myself on this thread because I can't seem to get a feeling that I'm being helpful. You are doing so much right I'm trying to hard to find an angle you may not be considering.

p.p.s. - I forget if I already said this on your thread, but my MIL was very instrumental in the destruction of my wife's affair. She called OM after exposure and told him off with extreme prejudice. He broke off the affair with my wife the very next day. Men respond to momma's.

Yep..Mr. W reasserts and reiterates my viewpoint...

Except..leave the following part out....




As I was indicating, I actually have such talks with my son....I was just imagining if my son was a wayward...OMG...I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT THE OW WOULD NEVER BE ACCEPTABLE TO ME...



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Yep, learning this more and more each day...HAVING TO ACCEPT THAT MY LITTLE BOYS ARE MEN, THOUGH....Sorry, a bit OT....

Lilsis... just wanted to let you know how great I feel you are doing. Your H is a lucky man.

OH mimi!
That was a spectacular post!

You are so right in the expectations he will have for OW. Not only is she going to be expected to replace Lilsis -- but now she is going to have to be the whole family.

Wait until his sons start showing their disapproval and dislike for OW!

Oh LS -- you are going to win this war. There's just no doubt about it!

The more pressure and disapproval he gets from everyone, the more pressure it puts on the affair. Because he will be feeling so much resentment towards her for not being able to make him happy over the loss of everything else important in his life.

So the consensus is that I'm on the right track! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you, everyone. I will make sure to encourage MIL to be very, very clear with WH again about the possibilit of any future relationship with RT: NONE, NADA, NOT IN A MILLION YEARS. She has said this to him in the past, but perhaps a 2x4 is in order...just a friendly reminder that he11 will freeze over before RT can have a place in MIL's life.

Add her 2x4 to the 2x4 that FIL delivered upon leaving (RT is NEVER to set foot in the house), and the cold shoulder 2x4s that his brothers have used...a clear picture of WH's future relationships with his family members is revealing itself...if only the fog were clear enough to see it and internalize it for what it REALLY means.

On our way to go shopping, my best friend and I stopped by ILs. It was about noon. I had some cookies to deliver. I knocked on the back door and DS11 answered. He was still in his PJs and had not brushed his teeth (yuck). Again, it is NOON.

to DS11: Hi, honey, how are you...I came to deliver some cookies! Ooops, it looks like dad forgot this (hand him the rose, which is still by the back door).
DS11: Okay, mom, thanks! (exchange kisses, which confirms for me that teeth have not been brushed)
LS: You guys having a nice time?
DS11: yeah
LS: Where's dad?
DS11: on the computer
LS breezes through the kitchen to the dining room where WH has his computer set up (without MIL to keep things in their proper place, the dining room becomes the home office). WH is sitting at the computer in his underwear and a sweatshirt. He has not showered. I repeat, it is NOON.
WH: What are you doing here? (Head in hand, eyes closed as if he can will me to disappear)
LS: Just came to deliver some cookies! (kiss WH on the temple)
WH: (painfully) I wish you wouldn't.
LS: Well, I know you like them. Have a great day! Bye, boys!
LS breezes out, hops in the car with BF to go engage in some retail therapy.

I had already left the VM about dinner tomorrow...and while at the mall I left the "significant" one word TM.

Work done for the day! (LS brushes hands) Although I still don't know when/if he's dropping the boys off for church. I guess I'll just leave that one alone...if he doesn't drop them off by 10:30, I'll just swing by and pick them up.

My BF is leery. I think she's worried that I'm setting myself up; you may recall that she is a very recently recovered FBS. She sees my WH as much more addicted than her FWH was (she's right). She overhead my over-the-top friendly VM about the roast, and she didn't know how I could do it. I really kind of surprise myself with how easy it is now. I told her that I see the A as a house of cards...constructed of rationalizations and justifications. One of the basic justifications upon which the card house is built is the "fact" that I am a horrible, unloving, unspontaneous, unsexy wife who cares more about the kids and the house than her husband. I explained to BF that all I am doing is attempting to remove that one card...take away that one rationalization, thereby weakening the whole house.

Further, I feel that the way I am interacting with him NOW is EXACTLY how I would interact with him if we were a happily married couple. It doesn't hurt me at all...it makes me feel totally empowered! I am coming from a place of love...not bitterness. I have finally taken some control over our interactions. Just pretend that we are happily married...give him a taste of what life would be like if we were=One less rationalization.

I also assured her that Plan B awaits....that I only have to do this for about another month. So she's on board once again. She's been there, so she knows how it feels.

I've got more ideas for "significant" one word TMs. I think I'm going to do one each day.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

LS

Oh, you are doing just fine. The stuff you are doing now is extremely difficult, but it pays off in the end.

Good grief <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Yanno, think about this Sis.

Didn't he tell your MIL some such nonsense about you two being only friends? Well, whats the problemo then, why would he run, why would he hide if he just wants to be friends.

I think he FEELS a helluva lot more than FRIENDS for you, you Plan A Vixen you!

I'm glad you got away for some retail therapy hon. Plan A includes lots of pampering of oneself.

Jo

LilSis,
I am a new poster..in fact, this is my first. I have been lurking here for many months...since early summer. I just wanted you to know that I have been following your story and have been very moved by it. I am praying that your WH sees the light and runs back to you.

For what it's worth, I would guess he is in turmoil right now and the walls must be coming down. I suspect that you won't be in Plan B for long before he has a change of heart.

I will continue to follow your story and pray for the 2 of you. Keep up the good work.