YES as a couple is GREAT

Of course...the idea isn't that you should be secluded or cloistered...it's that you should not develope intimate PRIVATE relationships with men.

"Something like..."WH, you know that I just want you to be happy. I want nothing but the very best for you. The thing is, I know that what is best for you is to be HERE, with me and the boys. I firmly believe that doing what is best, what is right, is the only thing that will ultimately bring you true, enduring happiness. I KNOW that we can be happy together, if given the chance."

I like this, but am not sure I'd phrase it exactly this way .... sounds a little like "I know what's best for you, and you obviously don't." Might be true, but probably hard for anyone to swallow....

There are lots of better people around for wording, but here's my initial crack at it ... maybe something like:

"WH, I just want us to be happy. I want nothing but the very best for our family. The thing is, I know that what is best for us is to be TOGETHER, all four of us. I KNOW that you and I can be happy together, and build a new, fantastic marriage together if given the chance."


-AmI.

much better

sorry to but in, but
I also thin that you should make your intentions clear right now.
I have been following your thread for the last several days and i find myself wondering......does her H know how serious she is about this or he is confused??

I don't know what happened afte rD-day....did you and your H ever discuss MC or trying to save the marriage or did he just move out?

AmI: I like yours much better. I also had that sense that it was too "I know better than you"-ish.

Wow...quick update. I have been sending daily TMs to WH...just quick one word kind of things that evoke a memory of some intimate moment. Today's was "What are you doing back there?" a quote from once when we almost got busted, one we've repeated often.

OMG! He REPLIED! one word: Where

He must have thought I saw him somewhere...so I replied: Behind the 4runner

Then I get another one: Im on a call at (street) and (street)
(if he's on a call why's he TMing??)

And I replied: Duh...go back a few yrs...(named location)

He actually communicated with me. I don't believe it.

He moved out about 10 days after d-day, which was June 28. At first he wanted to save it, but that lasted about a week.

I was thinking yesterday that you needed that conversation..but instead of asking US...I still strongly encourage you..if at all possible..to counsel with STEVE HARLEY and ask him SPECIFICALLY what to say....

Your WH most DEFINITELY IS CRACKING....

Think back over all of his changes...answering the cell phone..coming into the house...texting you....

I wish more EXPERT GUIDANCE for you...and I'm recalling how Steve's directions were sometimes different than the forum's...

thanks for updating me.
That must have been very difficult...You really didn't have any time at all to work a plan A while he you were still living together.
you are in a little bit of a unique postion....trying to plan A w/ him out of the house and already starting divorce procedures.....i imagine he is very confused....might be afraid you are playing games w/ him.

I wonder if the OW asks him questions (grills him) about his interactions and conversations w/ you......that' very common...OW are ususally very suspicious.
If that's the case I'll bet she is trying to tell him you are playing games w/ him and using everything she has to keep him under her power.

That's why I think it would be benefical for you to be very upront and clear about what your intentions and want for your family abd your future.
I liked IAmOk's words..sounded very real and honest.

We are having quite an eye opening discussion about something very similar to this way of thinking that waywards have on another board I belong to.

The following is something I wrote to them...you might find it useful...tho knowing our Mimi and Pep, they've prolly already clued you on to this phenomenon in a wayward's thinking:



I see that he's waiting for the shoe to drop not because of YOU...but because of HIM. He's blown it into this huge and gnarly mess...huger and gnarlier than it probably actually is, judging by YOUR reactions to date.

Sure you messed up at first...but your plan A tells me you are mistress of your reactions now...which also tells me that THERE IS NO OTHER FARGING SHOE.

From one who has been there...right where you are...I can tell you that you are doing EXACTLY the right ninja lighthouse moves that will be his beacon home. That he is even questioning the existance of the other shoe, shows he is NOTICING and APPRECIATING the changes in you he has seen thus far. Now we must prove to him that you've decided to go commando on the shoe thing...there are no shoes, you're barefoot...even unto the point of frostbite of the toesies.

At the risk of sounding very Dubyaish (sticking my tongue out to the Dubyas here)...STAY THE COURSE.

He's built up all the wrongs in your marriage upon a foundation of shifting sands...your plan a has visibly erroded that foundation.

Keep this close to your heart when your taker is screaming "what about me?"

Kindness counts. Kindness without expectation of reciprocation counts double.

I will tell you, LilSis, no matter what....you will have your reciprocation....it will happen. Do not expect it...do not even dwell on it....but it WILL happen. I know it as sure as I know I need to breathe in and out to survive.

All my love,
Kimmy

I wonder how many WS's shoot themselves in the foot, so to speek becuse they can not possibly imagine the BS EVER forgiving them for the affair.

Lilsis,
Do you think your WH has any idea that you are capable of forgiving his betrayal?
I would imagine that when he thinks about the possiblity he gets very scared.....and maybe even seeks comfort from OW.

I'd 'spect pert near every one of 'em!

It's one of the hardest things (I think) that a WS has to wrap his/her brain around....the fact that they AREN'T unforgivable.

- Kimmy, who's channeling Mel today

All of us do things we regret. When I think of some of my past mistakes, I am extremely grateful for having been forgiven by those I've hurt. I want to be in the position to offer you that same grace. I have been forgiven, so I inderstand what it feels like to be in a position where you hope forgiveness is possible. It is possible.



I like this way of offering the hope of reconciliation.

Pep

having said that ...

most MEN of character having affairs feel a sense of responsibility toward the OW

they often feel they cannot hurt her by returning to the M

they feel as if they must sacrifice things so as not to hurt OW

this is part of the fog ... and one of the things you must realize ... keep OW completely out of any conversation when your WH becomes willing to discuss reconciliation

keep the focus on family and marriage

the sense of obligation to OW fades as the fog lifts...

just so you know ... even IF WH realizes you are capable of forgiving him ... he may be reluctant to "hurt OW"

and your H being a cop makes this more likely

he's a protector (with screwed up priorities)

but this is going to be OK

H knows you are open to recovery ... coz his mama told him so !!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

and this is where Dr Harley can be the most help ... he's great at getting the WS to see there is hope & a reason to try the marriage instead of doing the divorce

Pep

First of all, I'd like to point out that American Express is running a promotion of 15 months no interest on all purchases or balance transfers for those that are qualified. I signed up for it (as I have racked up a little debt trying to handle my problem).

I am going to agree with everyone here that your WH is starting to CRACK. The WH has already started keeping some of this interaction from the OW, and she will start to sense that she is losing grip. She will start snooping on him, and he will start lying to cover his tracks. She will start LBing him (like you did when you just found out), and that will cause the A to crumble rapidly because it is built on a foundation of lies! You are winning the war!

This is the critical point. Get the no interest credit card, call SH up for some tactical guidance to expedite the destruction of this insidious A, and get on with your life. Be the lighthouse!!!

IF you start having the conversation with him (this will be an ongoing conversation) without FIRST TALKING TO STEVE, I want to warn you about talking about HAPPINESS. I agree with Pep with starting with the FORGIVENESS aspect.

That HAPPINESS issue has been troubling me BECAUSE I don't think he was talking to his Mom about NORMAL HAPPINESS. He was speaking of the ECSTACY that the OW produces..thats the DRUG. I don't think you will ever top that because it is an ABNORMAL FEELING not experienced in NORMAL RELATIONSHIPS..OVER TIME. He will have to realize that she will be unable to continue to PRODUCE THAT FEELING..and no one is going to be able to TALK him out of that....He will continue to LONG and YEARN for that FEELING for months during WITHDRAWAL when it comes to that...

IMO, the focus of the conversation should be YOU SPEAKING YOUR OWN TRUTH as Loving Anyway would say..."I WANT TO WORK ON OUR MARRIAGE..I WANT TO HAVE THE CHANCE TO SHOW YOU HOW MUCH I HAVE CHANGED...I KNOW THAT MARRIAGES CAN BE RECOVERED...I WANT OUR CHILDREN TO BE REARED BY THEIR FATHER...I CAN FORGIVE YOU FOR ALL THAT HAS HAPPENED"(As in Pep's statements)...It is important for you not to be perceived by him as judgmental or disrespectful to this man who craves ADMIRATION..make sure that he does not hear that you are telling him what his feelings are and should be...

Is there any way your BF and her FWH would be willing to come on here? That way you could continue the positive aspects of interaction with both your friends, and lovely chaperones 24/7, lol.

Waving bacon in front of a starving Texan.
Waving stripples in front of a vegetarian.
Waving seasoned fried tofu in front of a vegan.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

That HAPPINESS issue has been troubling me BECAUSE I don't think he was talking to his Mom about NORMAL HAPPINESS. He was speaking of the ECSTACY that the OW produces..thats the DRUG. I don't think you will ever top that because it is an ABNORMAL FEELING not experienced in NORMAL RELATIONSHIPS..OVER TIME. He will have to realize that she will be unable to continue to PRODUCE THAT FEELING..and no one is going to be able to TALK him out of that....He will continue to LONG and YEARN for that FEELING for months during WITHDRAWAL when it comes to that...


I wanted to add on to this if mimi doesn't object.

I was thinking about this too because it always comes up...and it is always so hurtfull for the BS to accept that what they are describing as mimi succinctly put it...ecstasy...and that what you can offer will NEVER compare to it. And yes he will measure how he feels with you against it...and it sucks.

It's so [email]d@mned[/email] hurtfull and unfair [and stupid]...to both of you...and it's really just...one of those things in which I don't know WHAT to tell the WS except to sort of shrug and say...I'm really sorry that you elected to taste this...because it really is both irreplicable in a normal healthy relationship and unsustainable even in the affair.

Well, I didn't get a chance to talk to him tonight anyway. He came to my meeting and picked up the kids; we interacted briefly but I could tell he was on edge. He avoided eye contact and was anxious to leave. Apparently they came back here to the house and spent the time (a little over an hour and a half) playing xbox and watching tv in the attic. The boys were both bathed/showered and in their jammies when I arrived home....very nice for me.

I thanked him a couple of times, and asked if we could talk for just a minute. At first he said, "It depends on what you want to talk about." But after being interrupted by the boys and getting his shoes on, I asked again, and he said, "No, I'm tired and want to go." As he left, I reached up to kiss his neck/cheek/whatever, and he just froze and got all stiff and squeezed closed his eyes...almost as if his whole body was saying, don't do this, Lilsis. I just softly kissed his cheek and said careful-love you-bye.

After the boys got to bed, I left him a VM thanking him again...how nice it was to have them all ready for bed when I got home instead of having to get them ready for and into bed when they are all wound up.

You are all probably right...a call to Steve is probably a good bet. At least some insight, some idea about how to approach WH. I don't know why I'm hesitating...fear, probably. It's not financial; that's just a cop out. Is it fear of having to re-tell the whole story? Who knows. What do I have to lose.

You were like the cross flared in front of Dracula tonight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I just can't understand why you don't schedule with Steve, Sis.

Talking with Steve Harley was like finding someone in a foreign country who spoke my language...He is sooo encouraging, soothing, helpful and insightful and a zillion other only positive adjectives...I can still hear his voice so clearly now...

I think you need Steve's guidance..because there seems sooo much HOPE in your situation..YET, I can see how you could easily go off in the wrong direction...