LOL

That's hilarious! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

He's GOT to miss your sense of humor!

~ Marsh

put your panties on your head next time and say:

"You're right, this does make me feel more hygenic."

This is not a recommendation, but that just gave me a funny little flash of a picture of LS standing in the kitchen, looking normal from the front, till she turns her back to WH and he sees panties with a corner tucked into her pocket and the rest hanging out. Or a lacy pair delicately wrapped around one ankle.

More hygenic.......bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So how many different ways can you wear panties, besides the traditional?

but he laughed, right?
and he acknowledged it.didn't seem annoyed or uncomfortable?
that's a good sign.

Question:

Do you think that it is possible for a WS to RECOGNIZE that the feelings they have for the OP ARE AN ADDICTION (maybe not using that exact word to describe it, though) and begin to come out of the fog indepentantly? i.e.; CAN a WS realize that the feelings for OP are destructive, painful to others, unproductive, have no basis in reality, and that offer no hope for a happy future? Then, having begun to recognize that, begin to clear the fog on his/her own?

I don't know if this makes sense. I guess what I'm wondering is whether or not WS' are CAPABLE of beginning to clear their own fog through their own introspection, or if it always takes a crashing violently into rock bottom, a'la Plan B or Plan F-U or marrying the OP and discovering the cold truth the hard way.

Just wondering.

I was thinking this, too, because this was what he recommended for me. I was getting concerned when you were scheduling PLAN B as he told me to do PLAN A for as long as possible. Steve also told me that my H's affair would definitely end and he was RIGHT. It took it SEEMED LIKE FOREVER and we went through many difficult and challenging times but he was RIGHT.



Steve calls what he does COACHING and not COUNSELING..that's the difference...



Nevermind what the WH SAYS...He couldn't get that IMAGE of YOU PANTYLESS OUT OF HIS MIND and he absolutely LOVED the idea of you telling him...Part of him wants you to change back. He is TESTING you to see if you will get TAME on him again...keep moving forward despite what HE SAYS...He is right there in the house with you because of those TMs...Remember and don't forget WITH THE WH, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!!!



PERFECT!! Keep him guessing..in anticipation of what is next.

Don't underestimate your POWER, Sis. When he is with YOU, he is thinking of YOU and not HER. He is captivated by the fact that YOU ARE WANTING HIM..THAT'S WHAT A MAN LIKES..THAT'S WHAT A MAN LOVES....

No, he didn't, not at all. It got a chuckle. Might have just been his mood, or maybe he's getting a little more "used" to this behavior, so it doesn't take him aback as much. Again, this would have been something that he would have LOVED for me to do long ago.

I forgot to mention that my respose to the hygiene remark was, "Well, that's no fun."

Lilsis... I would just make sure that you are not taking on more than you will be able to handle when/if his affair ends. Let's say you have an open ended Plan A... can you see yourself wanting to work things out with him and not being resentful if four months down the road he is still screwing the RT HO? Never invest more than you can afford to lose. Right now you are optimistic... and I believe that you can be.... but with caution.
I would continue to have your Il's press him at EVERY chance. It is not often that you get IL's that are so helpful... take full advantage of their kindness.
I wish you continued strength and peace.

This FINALLY registered with my H but like any other ADDICTION..he had to SUFFER..REACH HIS BOTTOM..before it did.

The concept was introduced to him by me and by Steve and by reading SAA right after D-Day but he said.."This doesn't apply to me" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

But I never moved from my use of this analogy with him.."You can do it just like I gave up cigarettes"..

So FINALLY..after he knew that he wanted to come home..after PLAN B..and still wanted to have CONTACT with her..he ADMITTED that it is "ADDICTION"..actually used this word...Then, WITHDRAWAL lasted a full 6 months..FOG wasn't FULLY GONE until a year in Recovery.

Yes, it'a a MARATHON..not a SPRINT..as PEP says...

My H continues to see it as an "ADDICTION" so he goes to great lengths each day to make sure not to cross her path...doesn't answer unknown numbers on his phone.. He does this on his own..doesn't talk about it much....We are planning to move to another city..you get the picture...


So I don't think it happens WITHOUT THE SUFFERING. It's not a RATIONAL DECISION.

It's important for you to FOCUS ON TODAY, Sis...

Take it ONE DAY AT THE TIME....

This is what you have..what you are dealing with TODAY...

I've given you a GLIMPSE of the future..but going THERE will make it difficult to accomplish what you have to do TODAY....

MEDC:
I think I understand your point. Steve asked me a couple of times about my energy. I have it now, and I don't feel it waning. The self-pampering is important, I think, and all of the support here and from friends and ILs (and the meds...). I believe that I will recognize when my energy and will begins to flag.

Keep in mind, however, that I HAVE CHANGED too. This WAR to recover my marriage is only possible because I am a stronger, deeper person. I have strength I never knew I had. This was a discussion in IC yesterday. All that has happened...they betrayal, the rejection, losing my H, nearly losing my mind, two days and nights in jail...it STRIPPED ME BARE. Literally and figuratively...I was completely and utterly defeated.

But guess what? Being stripped bare was a gift, because I discovered that the ONLY THING that matters is who we are inside. Once all the artifice is gone, once there is nothing left to hide behind, who you are at your core is revealed. There I was, locked up, rejected and ostracized by society, and I met these women. Women with horrible stories, wounded and scarred from life...and they reached out to me. And I reached out to others. We helped each other...it was just basic humanity and compassion. It is all we had left to give, and it was all we could recieve. It was a beautiful thing for me to experience. Seeing my own humanity...my core...gave me some kind of strength that I never knew I had. I walked out of that place and DID NOT slash my wrists....which honestly would have been an understandable reaction to everything that happened to me. From that place...from the very, very bottom of the pit...I lifted my head, then got on my knees, then crawled a few feet, then stood up, then took a few steps, and kept getting stronger.

So, my response to your concern is that I KNOW NOW THAT I POSSESS THAT INNER STRENGTH. Let's say that I've climbed from the basement and up six flights of stairs. I may fall back a few steps, a flight, or even all the way back to the basement at some point in my life. BUT I KNOW THAT I CAN CLIMB BACK UP. I have done it before, I know what it takes, and I know I have it in me.

Do you see the difference? Not recovering my marriage will not defeat me. I know more about myself now...and I believe that I will know when Plan Aing is becoming too much, or beginning to tap me too much.

I really appreciate your warning...feel free to continue to hold my feet to the fire and check me on this...

Dr. Harley says this in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS:



I KNOW...YUCK....

That's the just answer I was looking for. I should have realized on my own, though...for a WS to reach that conclusion on his/her own would require the ability to REASON. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Thank you, mimi. I will/am focusing on one day at a time with regard to my own behavior and expectations...I'm just thinking more broadly and trying to understand the process of de-fogging and the various ways that WS's can potentially de-fog.

There's an earlier post by me that you may have missed...regarding the PANTY CONVERSATION...

Nope, got it. I took great heart in his actions last night...but need to be guarding myself for the next time WH shows up in all his icky glory. I totally agree, even dispite the concerns that others have raised...this is the right tactic for me to pursue. Not over too over the top, but keep him engaged and interested in what I will come up with next.

I've mentioned that WH and I used to go out for breakfast every Friday AM after the kids were dropped off at school. Since it is Friday AM, I just TMed him with our "usual" order...we always got the same thing, so even the waitresses knew without asking.

Later today I'll text him with another one-word "reminder" of a past encounter....I'm beginning to wonder if he looks forward to getting texts from me....I can only hope...

Have confidence in yourself, Sis...

Of course, he looks forward to your TMs...

You do KNOW YOUR HUSBAND and he is REGISTERING that somewhere in that fogged-out brain of his...

Dr. Harley also says in HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS:




YOU HAVE THE POWER, SIS...

She will NEVER, EVER, EVER HAVE HIS HISTORY...

(Sidebar: forgive me, as you can tell I have all my Harley books highlighted..it was another one of my coping techniques..I read many of those words OVER AND OVER AGAIN...still do read it a lot...)

LilSis:

Been out of the office for 2 days, and a lot of activity on your thread.

Lets start at the top:

Use the MIL to talk about the effect on the kids. Your strongest weapon. If something was going wrong in school with my kid, my BS was on me about it. And OW could NEVER infringe on that. And your MIL can do the LB.

But, as a parent, he needs to man up. Point out that DS's need a little bit more stability. You and H need to talk about DS school work regularly. Sort of a difficult thing to do, because it isn't flirtly. Remember, evenings together with the kids is good.

That's All I will even remotely beat you up about.

I wanted to respond to Mimi on a couple of points:

I've been with my H for over 30 years and what has meant the most and one of the most important parts of my very successful PLAN A was going back and doing the very stuff that attracted him to me in the VERY BEGINNING... MUST DO!

I bet LG will tell you...that's the HOOK of the OW... OW is new and different....

She was willing to go for the drive in the sportscar as LOW ORBIT reminded us.... But LilSis can drive now..

YOUR THINKING IS RIGHT ON TARGET WITH THIS, IMO!!!

She is feeling her way and asking questions, hoping to come up with the RIGHT MOVES...

You already know all the moves, all the words, all the touches, all the looks...
I used to think of it as CLAIMING MY TERRITORY.... Right ON!

My note regarding this, and in relation to your response, Is that the OW is creating NEW things for him. As well as meeting many of the things that LS used to. But you are winning. That is why he hung back in your Kitchen last night.

After, he sort of stood there in the kitchen...just for a couple of seconds, looking around. He was friendly. I didn't push anything any further...and didn't attempt to hug/kiss on his way out. Just a warm, warm smile and eye contact.

He had his fix the Night before. AND, the next day, HE NEEDED, and WANTED LILSIS to flirt, be sexy and show him the new you. You did not fail here, because, he was the one hoping for something.... And THAT is the huge victory! And next time, invite him to sit down. And have Pop, or a something else. He did want to stay...

The Roses:

Deliver more. If he doesn't want you to do it, It's because RT LB'ed him about it. So rose #3 is going to be delivered????

Your Conversation with Steve: Great Job. This is the start. And remarkably, his advice follows the info on this board.... Are we paying attention or what? (Or are we freeloading while you pay the tab???)

More Later....

LG

What's your guess on the NEW THINGS, Sis?

You know her....

LG is my H..I told you... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My H really stressed to me..more than once... SHE IS NOT BETTER THAN YOU..SHE IS DIFFERENT...synonymous with LG's use of the description NEW.

That is why I said to you.. WHEN HE IS WITH YOU, HE IS WITH YOU..... so make the most of that time....

Thanks, LG. I was supposed to call MIL last night, but fell asleep (the time difference, you know). She'll be so on board.

So...just tm'd again with a one word reference to something significant about an encounter...I've been coming up with different ones every day. I followed up with a second TM: "Isn't this fun? You can play, too..."

Next roses will be on Monday...keep him guessing...

I don't like focusing on the OW, but believe it is necessary to know thy enemy to some degree.

That said, I believe not all those NEW things OW offers are genuine, or really her. Please remember OW is on a campaign to steal (covet). Some, if not all, of those NEW things are contrived and exaggerated. Her facade has a shelf life.

Jo