And plus, she can care less what your MIL or anyone else thinks or says to her..ALL SHE WANTS IS YOUR H..and she would prefer to have him ALL TO HERSELF..

This would accomplish her goal of getting rid of the ILs....

We double posted again...

mimi, you are SO right. That is EXACTLY how she would response, and EXACTLY how WH would react: I'm PROTECTING her, my soul-mate, love of my life!!! (puke) I'm glad you looked at it from that angle. Reminds me of Steve yesterday...thinking through the angles, looking for the downside of what appeared to be the right course of action. Think it all through. It is so easy to get carried away. That one can go on the back burner...kept in the bag o' tricks for another time, maybe?

Fun thinking about it, though...

Mrs. W...your mom sounds like a lovely, lovely lady. I would love to sit down and have some sweet tea with her...I bet she would have some stories to tell...

Yep...I see all of Mimi's points for sure...I do think there is a difference in an OM and an OW situation...An OM(single, in our case) is more likely to back up and say "whoa"...An OW, is more likely to ramp up the damsel thing...Very Clear...Also, our case had the fact that my mom had known OM since childhood...small town...knew his parents...etc...So, I shared, but to no avail-Oh Well...Carry on steady soldier!!! Dang, I just so want this to tilt even more your way and even faster...I'll leave you in the very capable hands of Mimi! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

P.S. "Sweet Tea"...Yep, my "Mama" loves that stuff...I refer to it as "Syrup"...Yuck...Guess that's why I married a "yankee"! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

actually, I AM Mrs W's mom. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

no advice here
just a story

OW called my MIL , Maria, after we exposed to OW's H in the coffeeshop

OW called to say to Maria that she hoped we could all still be friends

Maria said to her "I never want to see or hear you ever again. You hurt my family and you hurt me. Stay out."

and that, as they say, was that

I guess assigning you a penance is part of my role around here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

For your penance, LilSis, you must read and meditate on the letter of St. Paul to the Romans, chapter 5, verses 6-11 and the first letter of St. John, chapter 4, verses 7-19. Meditate on the following questions in relation to the Scriptural teaching in those two passages.

Was your Creator fooled or impressed by your artifices and sham perfection? Can you hide from Him? Does He, knowing your failures, imperfections, and unworthiness, love you or not? Does His becoming man and accepting death by torture on the Cross to save you, LilSis, personally, suggest that He was particularly concerned about your worth?

Can someone who feels unworthy and unlovable love others? Could someone who feels unworthy and unlovable feel differently without being loved by someone? Might a feeling of unworthiness be part of the Fall of Man? Could actual unworthiness be part of it? How could a group of unworthy, unlovable, unloving people ever learn to love each other? What if Someone came and loved them despite their unworthiness? If they felt loved could they learn to love others? Could the initiating and continuing of this process be part of the Salvation of humanity?

I still think your MIL should contact her SON -- regarding his responsibility to YOU regarding the sentencing.
And to make him look at RT as the responsible party.

LilSis,

Something caught my eye about your DS11 having a hard time. Is it possible instead of taking an exercise class, instead doing something fun and physical with your sons instead? I believe someone suggest bowling or an ATV. IMHO, the motive should be for you to have fun with them, the focus should be on them. They both may be very confused with all of what's going on over at both homes and all the focus on Plan A'ing maybe somewhat taking away your attention with them.

Kids sense things, even if you are in the same romm with them, if you aren't present with them, they pick up on it.

Just a thought, I know your doing great.

With prayers,

Thanks, Father A. I printed out your remarks and am going to spend some time with that today.

I got up this morning and spent some time looking through the iPhoto library on my computer. I found a picture of WH, taken pre-A, on a spectacular fall day. He was swinging from a tree branch. It reminded me of the Robert Frost poem, "Birches." WH is a fan of Frost, and knows "Birches" well. I got out my Frost anthology, and looked it up. In the context of looking at the picture of WH, huge smile on his face, a few of the verses really stood out for me:

....So was I once myself a swinger of birches.
And so I dream of going back to be.
.....I'd like to get away from earth awhile
And then come back to it and begin over.
May no fate willfully misunderstand me
And half grant what I wish and snatch me away
Not to return. Earth's the right place for love:
I don't know where it's likely to go better.
....One could do worse than be a swinger of birches.

I pasted that photo in a Word document, along with the above passages. I printed it out to give to WH. I really felt good about my little creative project. I hope it strikes a cord with WH.

Other than that, it's been a less than stellar morning. I guess for one thing I should not indulge myself in a second cup of coffee, or maybe it was talking to my mom yesterday...but I found myself being hit full force with the reality of sentencing coming up on Thursday. The bitter, bitter irony of it quite honestly took my breath away. I am being sentenced for "assaulting" the woman who completely destroyed my life and my family, who stole something so precious from me. What I did was wrong, but it does not even COMPARE to what they did to me. Not even close. It just made me feel so sad. I called MIL in a moment of feeling panicky...she was so soothing, and even got me to laugh. I love her.

After I got myself together, I gathered up the kids to run to the bank before it closed. As I rounded the corner from my house, I drove past the coffee shop where RT works...I know she works on Saturdays. A cruiser is parked out front. Ugh. I ASSUME it was him (I know, mimi...). I felt really angry and hurt. Why does he have to carry on so flagrantly...and right around the corner from our house? No shame, no decency...I know, I know, he's a WH and I should expect no better...but still. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

So we went to the bank and I summoned up the goodwill to deliver my Birches project from the morning. We swung by the ILs and guess who's parked out front. I ignored him for the moment and ran to the back door, upon which I taped the page with the photo and quotation. Ran back out to the car and turned around so that I pulled up alongside WH. He mouthed something before I opened the window...don't know what. I wondered if he had seen me drive past the coffee shop...it's a tiny place with only five or six tables with a huge window looking out on to the street. Anyway, I gave him a "what?" look and he shook his head. The boys rolled down the back window and WH greeted them. Little chit chat...I'm sure he could see some sadness in my eyes. I was still feeling very hurt. After a minute, I C-LY-B'd him and we parted ways. I wonder if he went to the back door to see what I had left him.

Here's the worst part. On the way home, I began sobbing. We pulled in the driveway and DS11 hopped out and ran around to my door, opened it and reached in to hug me, which of course made me cry harder. I apologized to him and told him I wished he didn't have to experience this. He just said, "It's okay, Mom. Can I make you some tea?" to which of course I said yes.

I forgot to tell you all that yesterday afternoon I left a card on the back door with Pep's statement..."Everyone deserves a second chance. You do. Our sons do. I do. Love always, me"

Just a minor setback in my mood, but I'll bounce back. I do think I'm done Plan Aing for today, though...the thing on the door was enough. The rest of the day I'm going to self-pamper. Thanks for listening....

PS: Thanks for the suggestions about the boys and doing something. I think we will take another walk to the park to feed the ducks today. One day at a time...

Question:

How much do your sons know about your arrest and the circumstances leading up to it?

Pep

Nothing! They don't know about the arrest. DS11 knows about the A, though. He figured it out the night of "the incident."

Sit down and tell them.

age appropriate
without disrespecting their DAD as a person

but discussing values/vows

"Dad is involved with Joey's mother. They think they are in love. This hurts me very much."

and own your loss of control and use it as a teaching tool for them

"I allowed my hurt to make me so mad I acted out in a way that got me in trouble. This happends to grown ups as well as with kids. Now I try and deal with my hurt in ways that I can be proud of."

Oh, Sis...

There were SOOO many days during Plan A that I remember SOBBING...It is SOOO painful..like a hurt in your heart..was for me..and often when my H was there..he knew it..I would leave and go for drives in the car....

What we have experienced is a MAJOR LIFE TRAUMA...

I'm still in the process of HEALING...

That all being said, I agree with the need to talk to your sons. I would leave out the "in love" part. Not a biggie but I hate them getting confused about the LOVE part....

Also, make mention to them of how you are CHANGING FOR THE BETTER..talk about your POSITIVE CHANGES..how you are becoming a better person, mother and WIFE...you want to be a family again, etc...again speaking your TRUTH..which you do so well..Let them know that FOR SURE..YOU WILL BE JUST FINE....cause that's THE TRUTH <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mimi's right

I have talked to the boys...I did right after I got "sprung." Didn't tell them where I was or what exactly happened to me, but I told them what I did was wrong and apologized for scaring them. I told them that Grandma was going to stay with us for a while to help me start feeling better, start eating again, and help out around the house. (she stayed off and on for about three weeks)

Since then, we've had a number of talks about WH...my consistent stance with them has been that their dad was a wonderful, kind, caring, and honest man when I married him and when they were born, and I believe that he is still that way deep inside...but right now he's acting like someone else and is making bad choices that hurt me--and others--very badly. That I hope when they grow up they will be like their "real" dad, the one that I admired and love so much.

The few times that DS11 and I have talked about WH's relationship with "Joey's" mom, I place it in the context of that "other dad" that we see now. That the two of them together is wrong, wrong, wrong according to everyone, including God. No one--family or friends--thinks what dad has done is okay. All we can do is hope and pray that the "real" dad will find his way home.

DS8...I don't know. I don't really think I need to share the truth of A with him. He is sort of a young 8, if you know what I mean...and I sort of feel like if that particular relationship isn't DIRECTLY affecting him, that I don't need to bring it into his reality. I'm sure he'll figure it out later or can be told when he's older...but I'd just as soon wait until he's at a developmental place to deal with it.

I am also very much demonstrating my healing to them. We are MUCH more "back to normal" then we were three months ago, when I was hanging on by my fingernails. Even today...that was probably a good thing, because they saw me fall apart, but then I had some tea and we got on with our day...see? I didn't retreat to my bed and leave them to their own devices for hours on end like I did when I was at my worst (ugh).

We pray for dad every week at church, and frequently when we say grace one of us will pray for dad. I have been upfront with the boys that I want to bring our family back together, and that I am trying my best to make that happen. I have told them though, that I will be okay, and they will be okay, no matter what. Nothing can ever change how much I love them, and I will always be here for them; they can come to me with anything.

I shower those boys with demonstrations of love...big, long hugs and kisses every morning and every night...big ILYs when I drop them off at school in the morning, blown kisses, etc. Those are things my mom never did, but it comes very easily and naturally to me. I love for them to know how much I love them...even if I get upset with them or raise my voice at them ("For the tenth time: brush your TEETH!"). I don't want them to grow up thinking that I'll only love them if they comply...so lots of affirmation and positive reinforcement, and I expect them to be responsible, too....and I'll challenge them on it when they are not. I'm extra sensitive to that right now, given the example their dad is setting, but I think they actually see it for what it is...selfishness.

Just to add:
For kids, I think talk can be cheap. I can talk all I want, but I am THERE for those boys and they KNOW it, because they SEE it and EXPERIENCE it. I kiss them and hug them FIRST THING every morning. I pick them up and drop them off from school everyday. I have their clothes clean in the morning. I make them breakfast and dinner. I pack the lunches or make sure they have money for hot lunch. I check the homework, type the book reports, serve as "math helper" on Thursdays, buy cr*p for school fundraisers, and send in the book orders. I send the cookies for the school parties, I run them to their friends to play, I host the sleepovers. I make the pancakes, I practice the spelling words, I settle the arguments, I make them make their beds and brush their teeth. I take them to the dentist and the doctor. I clean up the vomit when they throw up, get them the heating pad when they have a tummy ache and rub their backs when they feel crummy. I wipe away the tears when they fight and snuggle with them when they are cold. I make sure the shoes are in the backpacks when they wear boots, I make sure they have a snack packed in the pocket. I rescue Gameboy games from the washer. I tuck them in with kisses every single night, and the last thing I say is, "I love you." (unless I later have to yell up: GO TO SLEEP!)

What does their dad do? He can tell them that he loves them, but how does he demonstrate it? How do they KNOW it and EXPERIENCE it? They don't.

Rant over. Now I'm going to pop popcorn so that we can have our movie night. My boys are waiting.

edit to add: I know I'm preaching to the choir, here...all BS's do this...just needed to get it off my chest. Thanks.

Tee Hee. Well, if you won't go to a real priest for your penance, someone has to provide you with something concrete....otherwise you won't feel absolved....<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


That's a very nice poem. I'm sure it will be have a good effect.

Hey LilSis, I took the liberty of presenting you and WH and your whole situation in prayer to a couple of the most glorious members of the Church Triumphant, Saint Monica and Saint Therese of Lisieux, and asking them to pray for you. Do you know them at all? I'm sure they'll be a very valuable addition to the team....a little celestial back-up for Mimi, Pep, Neak, etc.

I hope you don't mind my constantly posting these weird spiritual things....it's just that I don't have any other way to help....having no experience (THANK GOD!) of these difficulties.

A: Not at all. I am honored that you interceded on my behalf with Sts. Monica and Therese. I knew nothing of them (although I have heard of St. Therese of L.), so I googled them and read their histories...fascinating. Because of my spiritual growth as a result of this experience, I appreciate being challenged to learn more about my faith. Thank you for doing that.

On another note...

Question for mimi (or others): Through your descriptions of your experiences during Plans A/B, your commitment and absolute dedication to restoring your marriage is almost palpable. Clearly, you had faith, you BELIEVED. But I wonder...did you ever experience moments of doubt? Doubt that you would succeed, doubt that you could ever truly forgive (or perhaps more important, FORGET), doubt about whether or not your efforts were bearing fruit? (or that the seeds you had sown were in fact germinating?)

I ask because I DO experience moments of doubt...sometimes more than moments. And I wonder if that means I am not faithful enough, that I don't BELIEVE enough. What I usually do when I feel the doubt is to almost consciously box it up and lock it up tight...put it right out of my mind. Tell myself that I am NOT going to think about it. But a little voice still reminds me from time to time that that box is there...almost taunting me.

Okay, hold on....as I write this I am wondering if maybe that voice is wretched Miss P talking again. Is Miss P expecting me to have PERFECT faith and ABSOLUTE, TOTAL belief? Is she telling me that I am not doing this GOOD ENOUGH? That if I am not 110% "there" at all times, then I am a FAILURE?

Can someone give me an objective opinion?

Maybe I'm starting to get this after all...maybe seeing how Miss P undermines me in so much that I do. Ugh. Be gone, Miss P!

That said...I am curious about others experiences with doubt. Did you experience it? If not, do you think it's somehow significant that I do? I am so much better at boxing things up and putting them away (can anyone say compartmentalization?), but in this case I think it is healthy. Compartmentalizing as a way of denying reality and excusing behavior is one thing, but compartmentalizing as a way to protect oneself from self-flagelation is another...right? Maybe I'm kidding myself here...or maybe I'm just not finding the right words.

Sorry this is so scattered. If you stuck with it, thanks. Reactions and responses are welcome!

I reached a point where I did not want my M restored. Basically I was worn out. Didn't take a year or anything but my taker got fed up real fast and revolted big time. By the time my mind and heart went in sync, it wasn't that I didn't love my H, but I no longer wanted the OW in my life. It was a boundary I found I couldn't remove, I just needed to identify it.

When I did, then I could move on. When I was ready to move on, that is when the WS begged to come back but still the A carried on for another 2 + years. My tolerance level was and is low. H knows it doesn't take much for me to show him the front door. See that is the part of our M that he lost. I love him but not enough t/b devastated over. He screw up, he gets to live with it BY HIMSELF.

So it is my H now who is careful and cautious about how me treats me. Granted, he can be better but his tantrums and rants..... have diminished beause I no longer accept it. He has had to bite his tongue and if it bled, that's his problem to resolve....it's his tongue. I will help him within my boundaries, I don't go overboard with help. I let him do the work HE needs to do. That is a big change from my former self (pre-A). My taker has more time on board now. That's ok with me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Father A probably can answer this question more eloquently. I will simply say that I came to the place that there was NO DOUBT that I WOULD BE OK. That's I and ME in CAPS. So, regardless of what happened with OUR MARRIAGE, I BELIEVED WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT THE LORD WOULD TAKE CARE OF ME AND NEVER FORSAKE ME. I BELIEVED THAT HE WAS WORKING IT OUT FOR ME ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

A very spiritual friend of mine told me that it was a test...that SATAN, the DEVIL, EVIL FORCES..wanted me to DOUBT the LORD'S ABILITY to BRING ME THROUGH....For me, it was the VOICE OF SATAN that wanted me to doubt...

This is how I carried on, Sis.

I was FIGHTING A BATTLE AGAINST EVIL..and KEEPING MY FAITH IN THE LORD to take care of ME.