Sis, Sis, Sis . . . didn't anyone post "The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A" for you?

Being "nicey-nice all the time" no matter how rotten he's treating you and the kids is NOT Plan A. That's being a desperate doormat who will put up with anything just for a few crumbs of his attention. This will not win you his respect - quite the opposite. It also sends a terrible message to your boys about what's okay for men to do and how women are supposed to react.

I have seen other posters here - some BH and some BW - who become obsessed with winning back their WS's love.

They completely forget that there can be no love when there is no respect.

Please don't worry so much about winning back your WH's love.

What you really need to win back is his respect.


"The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A" by Pepperband

THE CARROT OF PLAN A:

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



THE STICK OF PLAN A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Allowing the consequences of adultery and infidelity to fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to affect children of the marriage or the financial security of the marriage, or otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slain for the good of the family.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Maybe someone could help you w/ a modified Plan A.
for those times when he is a total ****** like yesterday.

a way to be firm and honest w/ him instead of smiling and trying to hug and kiss him all the time. I worry those moments may will end up killing you and that he might be thinking you are trying to trick him or set him up.....i don't think he is quite GETTING IT...i think he's really confused.

any chance you could actually have a heart to heart w/ him WITHOUT the boys in the house....could you ask him to lunch to talk a few things over and be very specific about your honorable intentions to save the marriage?

Lilsis... while I think you are getting great advice here and from SH... make no mistake... kids know a lot more than we give them credit for. It hit me one day when my IC said to me... I want to look 20 years down the road and I am the counselor for your son...here's the problems he will deal with as a result of what his mom is doing... and then my IC looked at me and said, "if your son could speak to you from the future he would say, don't let this happen to me." This prompted many conversations with my son and my eventually getting full custody. Children KNOW and they are hurt by it.... and your WH needs to know this from not only them... but from the person that was assigned to protect them... YOU. It may not fit with SH's Plan B... or some MB principles, but IMHO, children come first in all we do.
I know you love your kids and will do anything you can for them. You will make the best decisions for your family.
MEDC

okay.....well, Mulan and I must have posted at the same time.

She has posted exactly what i was hoping someone could help you with.
I think you are doing great....i really do....i would never have been able to stick to plan A the way you have....i was way too impatient and would let my anger and pride get int the way.

BUT,
I just hate to see you ****** on you the way H did yesterday.
And that whole bit about the arrest......that really kills me.
I wish you could find a way to have a calm and honest conversation w/ him about how very wrong that whole situation was and continues to be.

That particular story and how your H could have allowed that woman to have YOU arrested...for slapping HER for sleeping w/ YOUR husband???
it leaves me feeling like your H has a real flaw in his thought process.
i think he is so confused by your plan A and thinks he is being set up.

and I wonder how much of your interactions he shares w/ OW?
any ideas?
I have a hard time believing that your particular OW isn't findign a way to get info out of him and in return planting seeds of doubt about YOU to him.

There seems to be much of the Stick of Plan A missing. I am concerned that you are behaving and being exposed to behaviors that will have a negative long term impact. This is not a "at all costs" battle here. We shouldn't need to risk our health or our dignity to be with anyone.... spouse or not.
While I may be too much of a Plan FU person at times... and I see that... there are others here that give way too much leway to a WS and are willing to risk too much in this fight. JMHO.... trying to keep things balanced.

I agree with Pep.

Your Plan B should begin when recommended by Steve Harley and under his guidance.

I came here for support and lots of helpful and loving feedback from folks on the forum but it was STEVE who specifically guided me as he has you..to STAY IN PLAN A FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE..he even coached me through a MODIFIED PLAN B..lots of his specific direction to me was not supported by forum members...I CONSIDERED HIM TO BE THE EXPERT..AS HE IS...



I shouldn't because I know that Sis can take care of herself..and I don't want this thread to turn into a place of dispute BUT....

IMO, there is nothing HIGH about SIS. She is in an immense amount of EMOTIONAL PAIN and she is STRUGGLING. Her WH is the one on a HIGH....

Today she needs our handholding as she prepares for her court appearance so I am coming here to support her and encourage her not to be discouraged...



I just don't see the point of this. Is this meant to be helpful? So you are the VOICE OF TRUTH? Sis knows much of this. Do you think she doesn't KNOW THIS? That's the whole point of PLAN A...Are you saying that given THE TRUTH that she should GIVE UP? "YOU ARE DYING OF CANCER SO FORGET THE CHEMOTHERAPY ALTHOUGH IT HAS PROVED CURATIVE FOR MANY OTHERS?"



Have you actually read what SIS has said to her BOYS about this? WONDERFUL...SIMPLY WONDERFUL..This is a lesson in LOVE AND FORGIVENESS and how a woman can do what it takes to the best of her own ability to SAVE her FAMILY....then when the time is right..she will LET GO...

Sis is NOBLE and ADMIRABLE, IMO...

As you may know, I did much the same as Sis..I wish you could witness the valuable lessons that I have taught my sons...to see how they treat the women in their lives..to witness how loving they are with their father and how loving he is with them..how they ALL have THANKED me...for my LESSONS in TRUE LOVE AND FORGIVENESS...

Yes, there are varying opinions on this site...

Hey sis...

Have you read the faith in me thread yet?

She did a STELLAR plan A...might give it a look see for inspiration and ideas.

Might also look and see the troubles with plan B that lie ahead.

Often the most outstanding plan Aers have a really difficulot time with plan B...because they want to get in the game..not step out of it.

*ahem*

nice thing to say to a woman who has a court appearance tomorrow...

timing may not be everything
but it sure as heck matters

Pep

Sis is Noble... no doubt... she is to be commended. Not one person here has said otherwise... just to be clear.

And yes, you did much the same as Sis.... but while your situation turned out great for you, I am hoping that Sis can manage this without risking her life or her self esteem. And I think sleeping with or offering to sleep with a spouse that is knowingly sleeping with someone else is a blow to a persons self esteem. I certainly would not want that for my child.

Mimi... you offer a great service here.... as does Pep... Mulan and SH. But no one person is right all the time. Not me, not you or anyone else. I think all the opinions being afforded to Lilsis are valuable. No one here is dismissing her actions as less than honorable.

Pep says it for me, MEDC.

I think it's reasonable for us to show emotional sensitivity towards others each other on this forum...

My opinion...

There has not been one person not supporting Lilsis here. Enough of the guilt trips if it doesn't fit your way of doing things. I have had the same feelings regarding her Plan A at times... that is not being unsupportive.... in fact it is being very supportive if the person feeling this thinks that their expressing it will help.

no kidding. Everyone here has been sensitive. IMO.

My point was that "the game" of Plan A has taken such precedence and is such a good distraction that I worry for Sis's emotional health when something like a court appearance or the reality of what her husband is doing suddenly makes a cold hard appearance and sends her reeling.

I worry that "the game" of Plan A is fooling her into removing barriers that should be firmly in place to protect her and her children from the very real cruelty of her husband's affair.

I submit that if Sis is posting things like "my sons are not as aware of their father's neglect as I am" and "I thought I had to be nicey-nice all the time no matter what WH does", then she does not really understand Plan A and it's going to bite her hard in the backside when she least expects it.

I do not want to see her lulled into thinking that all she has to do is be "nicey-nice" to a very cruel WH and then disappear for a couple of weeks in Plan B and all will be well.

There's far more to it than that. Pepperband's "Carrot and Stick" post explains it very well.

I simply worry that Sis is not protecting herself and her boys like she should. And yes, this court appearance is a very good example of that.
Mulan

Mulan ... I think your intent was helpful

however

your choice of the word "game" is what bothers me

Pep

Noodle - LilSis reminds me of FIM too. And FIM came out just fine - although not exactly MB perfect.

LilSis:

Keep following Mimi and Pep. And listen to SH when he counsels. THAT is the best truth. Everyone else out here is just talking to you through the keyboard. Not in person, Not in direct interaction. Only SH can make that claim.

Yes, you WH was with RT. And he blew off the boys. And you should have asked the boys to call 10 minutes after the time stated by WH that he would be there. That way, Real Life intrudes on Fantasy Life. And we want to do that as often as possible....

Cold and distant? Of course he was, and when he came over for the boys, imagine the contrast.

And this is not a "Game" Plan A is a process. A process of returning your H to the M. And, if needed, laying the groundwork for Plan B. Which is another process of returning H to M. And like all processes, they may not work. In which case the WH gets what he wanted.

And LilSis: If the judge gives you 5 minutes for a comment before sentencing, State with as much emotion as you can muster, how you were driven to that point of slapping the woman who was intent on destroying your M. I'm still amazed at the self-control that my W showed when she met with OW in my office. (I think I described that previously on this thread.)

And through all this, you can decide it isn't worth the fight. And quit.

Of course Plan A is not supposed to be a "game".

I fear it is becoming one in this case because it is not fully understood by the BW. It's all Carrot and very little Stick.

That's why I spoke up.
Mulan

Pep and MiMi,

can you give some specifics on how Lilsis can still plan A yet protect herself and not be too 'nicey nice' when WH behaves like he did yesterday?

THE STICK OF PLAN A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Allowing the consequences of adultery and infidelity to fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to affect children of the marriage or the financial security of the marriage, or otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slain for the good of the family.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Sis is doing ALL of this quite well:

EXPOSURE..to his mother...repeatedly....

DIRECTLY COMMUNICATING THE HURT TO HIM..in each of her recent interactions with him...

NOT ACCEPTING THE BLAME..same...note her conversation with her WH...

ALLOWING CONSEQUENCES...continuing to entertain his family..him feeling uncomfortable with this...him feeling uncomfortable with children having to observe his own and her actions...SHE SHOULD NOT COVER UP FOR HIM like he wants her to by backing off....

STANDING UP FOR INFIDELITY AS A BEAST..that's what this PLAN is all about....

I have been impressed with her ability to do BOTH the CARROT AND THE STICK...BOTH ARE EQUALLY ESSENTIAL....

And Nia:

I suggested that she back off from doing the PLAN A stuff when her H acted as he did yesterday.

I pretty much agree with the CARROT AND THE STICK post and, of course, I love PEP but this is HER INTERPRETATION of PLAN A..not PLAN A as specifically stated by DR. HARLEY in SURVIVING AN AFFAIR....

It's easier for me to speak about my experience. Hopefully this will help Sis and others.

PLAN A was the answer for me in GAINING my H's RESPECT...because I was willing to FIGHT FOR HIM. I was not going to sit back and hand him over to that OW on a silver platter. I was going to FIGHT for MY HUSBAND because I loved him.

If I had been the neglectful, disrespecful, ****** wife that I was he would have continued to disrespect me.....