Have you been so eager to put a distasteful experience behind you that you've not allowed yourself permission to grieve? Is anyone trying to pressure you to do so? No one can really sidestep the pain associated with severe disappointment....read on.<P>By the way, Sorry this took so long. This is my personal favorite, because I think I spent months grieving without even knowing. After I read this book, I think I was able to work through this much more efficiently and when grief pops up now, I see it for what it is am much more accepting of it.<P>Betrayers and betrayed alike can benefit from grief management...so read and join in. (Oh this is step #7 from The Choosing to Forgive Workbook by Carter & Minirth. Steps 1-6 are hear somewhere if you search. Step 3 is labeled Legitimate Anger under wasstubborn. The rest are under my name.)<P>We have learned that forgiveness cannot proceed when you suppress anger. The same is true when suppressing or avoiding grief. Before you can truly release a person who has wronged you(or forgive yourself), you will need to admit the extent of your sadness.<P>Grief can be defined as the emotion of loss associated with the anguish or sorrow caused by a negative event. While we associate grief with death, grief is the natural reaction to any loss, like the loss of innocence in a relationship that should have been safe. It is experienced when dreams collapse or you are forced to admit difficult truths about someone you had trusted.<P>What "death" have you experienced in your relationship?<P>You need to be honest about your feelings. It is ok to live in sorrow and remorse for a while and it is ok for your feelings to be known.<P>This is different than clinging to grudges. Some of do not want to be bothered by examining uncomfortable emotions, so we choose to be rid of them simply by quickly declaring forgiveness or expecting our partner to "just get over it."<P>We need to forgive for the right reasons. Forgiveness for the purpose of hurrying past your loss is poor motivation because it involves denial (which is not a river in Egypt). It is ultimately dishonest. So just as you need permission to feel angry, you need to admit the depth of your sadness before you can find true forgiveness. Having the courage to face grief is strength, not weakness. Here are the 5 major elements of the grief process.<P>1. Be mournful about sin...which simply defined is the choice to live outside God's design for successful living. God's standards are for us to be loving, kind, humble, repectful, considerate, faithful, etc. Now what have you endured? Your pain is probibly the direct result of someone living opposed to God's design (maybe you were). When we label sin as sin, it is a description, not a judgment. We all have sinned and sin is ugly. Even Jesus mourned about sin.<P>2. Make Room for Loneliness. Most of us are afraid to be lonely...and sometimes we forgive quickly because we fear abandonment. Grief does involve a sense of solitude that you can not avoid, and realizing that can keep the emptiness from being overwhelming and give you feeling you will persevere. When you are in a position to forgive, it is because a major gap has opened betwen yourself and someone who has a significant role in your life. You want to feel connected, but now there is disconnection. Loneliness is an unfortunate, but inevitable, by-product of wrongdoing. Some suggestions to explore grief is to talk about it, spend time alone to feel sad and even cry, write about your feelings, and don't feel you have to be upbeat all the time in public.<P>3. Say Good-Bye to Some Ideals. Forgiveness may need us to set aside illisions and openly recognize unwanted reality. If you are accepting reality:<BR> *You will not speculate endlessly about what caused your wrong-doer to act as he or she did. (hmm...interesting thought...I think balance is need here)<P> *You will keep balance in your conversations about problems...talking about your pain when appropriate, but not obsessively.<P> *You will not yearn for a new set of idealistic conditions to pull you out of your pain. (Guilty as charged)<BR> <BR> *You will drop phrases as "I just can't believe..."<P> *Even as you allow yourself to feel sad, you will also hold on to the belief that you can eventually move forward.<P>Do not say good-bye to goals or dreams, but factor in that life can and does disappoint.<P>4. Don't Be Ashamed to Hurt. The inability to forgive often exists in direct proportion to the tendency to hold on to unnecessary shame or embarrassment. Shame can keep you from being honest about your pain. Shame belongs only in incidents in which no repentance or remorse is registered. If you know yourself to be conscientious and growing, shame has no place in your life.<P>5. Commit to an End to Your Grief. Your grief will be intense at first, then you will still have recurrences of sadness, but they start to spread out. The inability to forgive is often driven by pessimism that life will never progress beyond the current grief. (Been there) Knowing that the pain will decrease and feeling like it will are two seperate matters. But be sure your emotions don't completely overwhelm the facts. In order to see an end to your grief try the following:<BR> *Accept encouragement<BR> *Talk with people with similar problems(we have this nailed)<BR> *Stay away from all-or-nothing statements. I'll never...He/she will always...<BR> *Keep in touch with routine matters<BR> *Don't push yourself to forgive right away, but assume you will do so when the timing is right. Your expectation of healing will help generate realistic hope.<P>Balance is required in the grieving process. On one hand, you go to do it. On the other, remember your loss does not represent the sum total of your life experiences.<P>So guys, what do you think? For a while I thought my sadness was a waste of time, now I feel it was something I had to experience, I had to ride out and I have to revisit once in awhile in order to move on.<P><BR> <P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Come on people, GRIEVE with me! If there is one thing in commen on this board is that each every one of us are hurting!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

FHL<BR>I'm late again.<BR>This is one of the most important chapters in the book. Very intense though. When I was reading through your post I realized I missed some things the first time around.<BR>I guess I will start by saying that this info made the most difference to me in starting the healing process.<BR>The example that is given hits very close to home doesn't it. Maybe that is what I will share first.<P>In this chapter "Charlotte's" case is presented. Charlotte discovered her H had an affair. She chose to immediately forgive him. Not hold any grudges. She visited the counselor once. Two years later she returned. She had discovered that her H's infidelity was actually a way of life for him.<BR>She also realized that by not allowing herself to grieve in the first place, she had made things more difficult for herself. She had felt that the sooner she forgave, the sooner she would get rid of the negative emotions. In truth she had denied her feelings and they had grown more intense with time. The new revelations of her H's lifestyle made her realize what she had never dealt with.<BR>How did I do FHL? Is that basically what the example is getting across?<P>In our hurry to put everything in the past and not allow the grief to run it's course we are actually interfering with the healing.<p>[This message has been edited by wasstubborn (edited October 06, 1999).]

Yup, that's right, WS...and thank you for partnering with me in Grief.<P>There is another book I have, The Heart of Commitment by Scott Stanley that has a wonderful chapter of grieving losses in marriage. Whenever we do not get something we expect, we deal with a loss, whether or not what we expect was even possible. I'll share more of these thoughts later...<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

FHL<BR>I have way too many thoughts on this topic. I will have to get them organized. <BR>Do share more from the other book!<BR>I remember something I read elswhere. Can't remember the book though.<BR>We MUST allow the grief but we should also put a statute of limitations on it. We have to commit to ending it at some point. Replacing the grief with something positive after we have dealt with it sufficiently.<BR>Thoughts?

Yes, like anger, feel what we feel, but think of it as a journey that has an end and work toward that end. That's the difference between anger vs. bitterness and grief vs. despair.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

A journey - definitely.<BR>Wish I had a map <BR>Maybe we should be making the map on the way. Keeping track of the improvements in our emotional journey.<BR>I'm going off topic a bit. Need to get my thoughts together.

FHL, as a fellow INFP, do you find yourself choosing to forgive - jumping the gun so to speak, because you know that is the right thing to do - and maybe haven't really done all the steps in forgiveness?<P>I think this is what I do. Too kind of a soul????<P>I still am having a hard time with workbook #5, not elevating yourself to the superior mode when in an unequal relationship.<P>But I jump to forgiveness too quick, and then discover hostility in my heart.<P>Interesting.<P>

I didn't have a hard time with forgiveness, I think I said and meant it rather quickly, but I think I meant I was ready to forgive instead of a one time proclaimation, now let's move on kind of thing.<P>I feel tremendous pressure within my personality to look for the best in a person or a situation...so I usually don't hold grudges.<P>I am guilty, however, of having a hard time restoring a person to a position of integrity or honor in my mind. Maybe because see the wrong doer as being a little inferior because of the wrong doing and therefore not deserving of his/her previous position? I'm not sure.<P>I think I spent a good 90% of my forgiveness journey or recovery period in active grieving for my loss of a pure marriage and my loss of absolute trust. I had relatively little anger, but enormous amounts of sadness as in loss. <P>This whole journey is interesting, I'll give you that.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Grieving comes for all different kinds of reasons. I realized that when our son was diagnosed with disabilities. So much grief... guilt, sorrow, pain: heart wrenching pain... did I do something wrong when pregnant, was I a bad person, am I being punished... and my H had to grieve for a boy who wouldn't be able to do some of the things that he wanted, who might never be a strong man... and I worry that he might never be married or have children. All of it is grieving... and it is sometimes daily. Like when kids spit on him, or tease him.<P>Life is full of grieving...<P>But you know what? Like my marriage, there has been a recognition of the honor of this boy, the integrity... and the love we share.<BR>I have long stopped asking God "why?". I love this kid more than life itself... and I feel blessed! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Hi Ladies -<P>Well, so far I have not resolved two out of the 7 steps...."resolved" as far as fully understood my mindset with regards to how I am!!<P>Are these steps supposed to go in this order.....because I also forgave right away....wasn't really a major factor.<P>My biggest thing is "needing" to have him see that he is a better person than he is behaving as...<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba<P>PS - FHL, did you ever receive my E about what H's reaction was to my message? I tried to send it twice and received two error messages but not till hours after I sent them.....Is your EMail working and still the same? <p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited October 06, 1999).]

Sheba, no I haven't...faithhopelove2@go.com. Would love to here from you.<P>New Beginnings...yes, you do know what grief is and you also know how although you may have to let go of an expectation, in doing so you may have the opportunity to gain something sweeter than you imagined.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

<BR>I plan on purchasing this workbook - 1 for me and 1 for my SO. I mentioned it to him and he seemed receptive. We both have so much anger and mistrust and have made poor choices and I know he has not forgiven me even though he says he has. I am very forgiving and I have moved on. He holds onto everything and will throw things back at me. I've printed off all the materials on this site and gave it to him. We have discussed a few of the topics.<P>We both need to forgive each other for the past before we can ever move forward. I am anxious to dig into this book.<P>Thank you for sharing!!<P>------------------<BR>~~ I will not play at tug o'war, I'd rather play at hug o'war, Where everyone hugs instead of tugs, Where everyone giggles and rolls on the rug, Where everyone kisses and everyone grins and everyone cuddles and everyone wins! ~~<P><BR>

LadyK,<BR>I'm glad you are getting something positive here. I found this workbook put many things in my life in perspective. <P>All the best!<P>By the way, there is also a Workbook on Anger by the same authors.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

For you, cl...glad you are back. I'll be here for a while tonight, then back again Wednesday.<P>We need your input!!!!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Thanks!!!<BR>Grieve the loss of the previous marriage...something that I had a lot of trouble with. The previous marriage was great to me...so why should I have to grieve it being gone? How is this justice? <BR>It just is so. That is something I had to come to terms with. It is a fact, the old marriage is over and done. <BR>Once I accepted the loss as a part of my ife, I could move forward. <BR>I need to quit drinking the wine and reread the whole thread!!<BR>Thanks again and cheers. cl

I guess we could all say "Good grief"...(sorry about that). <P>Seriously, I discussed the grieving process with the counselor last week, telling him that I felt that perhaps I was stuck (I hope CrystalleNY comes by she was feeling the same way). He believes that like the workbook that the process is that "a process" and that we don't always go in step-by-step order and what may feel like being stuck is really just a revisiting of an earlier pass through the process. This made so much sense to me. I know that he was right, I keep cycling through the emotions (shock - even 4 months later, bargaining, anger, sense of loss, etc.) and fortunately each "trip" through seems a bit shorter and less painful. <P>So, if we had a map, I guess it would be like on the perimeter highway, circling around and until we are finally ready to find the exit and get on to our next destination, with an occasional return trip - - so we aren't lost really just passing by some familiar territory...or if you are computer literate - you're looping.<P>

Yes, Athena, I'm looping, too. And the feelings are generally further apart and less engulfing. I think it helps to understand the process and purpose.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Athena<BR>I'm so glad you wrote that. <BR>Cycling is exactly what I am doing.<BR>And there are so many things to grieve about. Not just one thing. <BR>It isn't just what happened to the marriage. Each day has a new memory that causes sadness. Trying to get through!!!

Wasstubborn, I can relate as well. There have been times lately when I have been grieving and wondering why? I feel as though I should be completely over all this junk, yet I cycle through again. I wonder if it's because I truly don't want to ever really feel "safe" in our relationship again. I don't ever want to take "us" for granted and I don't want him to think he can take me for granted again. I occassionally have an abstract memory or thought that sneaks into my brain and I wonder, "isn't this old news, haven't we made it back to a better relationship than ever before? Why don't I just drop this junk and move on?" <BR>It's weird, but I don't feel as though things are completely over and maybe it's because I am burying some junk? Or maybe because I never really had it out with her? Or maybe because I am afraid to have the faith it takes to let go of all this? Or maybe I haven't completely forgiven myself in this whole mess? Or maybe because of my emotional state right now.<BR>Tell me, FHL, when do you truly move on?<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P><BR>