Lilsis -- please just know that the meaner he is to you, the more you are having an effect.

He's fighting his attraction to you because it is disloyal to OW. So...being mean to you, or cold to you, or distant to you might get you to STOP! And he wants you to stop, because you're making him uncomfortable!

So on those days he's being neglectful, nasty, and pulling away -- just know its because you are succeeding. And then Plan A yourself instead! Do something to celebrate and make yourself feel good!

More later...

I only have a minute and was able to quickly read the posts that have been flying today. I do believe I have used some "stick."

I have challenged him about his choices several times recently..."if you want to stop hurting me and the boys you need to stop commiting adultery." "if you were interested in protecting us from hurt you would stop commiting adultery." I did this in a respectful way....as per Pep's "stick."

I have shown him my pain and frustration my openly sharing my emotions when I've been overwhelmed by the household responsibilities. He has seen me sincerely cry with the pain of what has happened.

I also have in place a legal support agreement, so I have taken the steps necessary to protect us financially.

I have exposed to EVERYONE. Heck, my dentist knows.

The consequences have fallen as freely as I have control over. His family is decidedly in my corner...however, his parents have allowed him to live in their house. That is THEIR CHOICE...they know my position...but I CANNOT control their behavior.

My "stick" may not be someone else's stick. And I have limited contact...there's not much stick to wield. Please note that I came RIGHT HERE last night when I felt that I had been too doormatty and felt uncomfortable. It didn't feel right...and mimi cleared it up for me: if I'm not feeling it, if WH is behaving particularly yucky...I don't have to expect myself to fake it. It's as simple as that.

As for the kids...I HAVE BEEN VERY OPEN WITH THEM. DS11 knows about the A. I have told them both what I am doing...that I am trying to put our family back together. "Real" Dad is lost inside this weird alien...I'm trying to give real dad a way to escape. I HAVE ASKED DS11 HOW HE FEELS ABOUT THIS and he told me to keep trying. Actually, so did DS8. He wants his real dad back, too.

I THINK THE BEST THING I CAN DO FOR MY BOYS IS TO GIVE THEM AN INTACT FAMILY. I am NOT giving them the impression that I accept WH's behavior...nothing could be further from the truth. I think they understand fairly well (I KNOW DS11 does) that I am trying to be nice because who would WANT to come back to someone who's crabby all the time, AND trying to show dad--remind him---what he's missing out on by not being with his family. And...this will NOT go on forever. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but at least I can look them in the eye and tell them I did EVERYTHING I possibly could. A divorce, on the other hand...a broken family...is FOREVER.

so...back to what I was saying.

In his mind, it took big balls to get as far out as he has.
He had to go against public opinion, family opinion, and hurt everyone. And now that he's this far out, he's not going to be easily led back. He is going to fight against every Plan A effort you make.

He KNOWS he's hurting those boys. He prefers to rationalize, not look too closely, and definitely not hear about it. If he pretends they don't exist (even for just an afternoon), he won't have to face how much he's screwing up and hurting them.

Thats why Grandma (MIL) can give him a good a$$ kicking about what he's doing to the boys. Because she loves them -- purely. And he knows that. She has no other agenda. She wants what is best for her grandsons.

The more he has to face the ugly consequences -- makes RT less worth it.

Thats why the mirror needs to get held up in front of him every chance there is! And you are SO BLESSED to have a MIL who will do this for you!

This sentencing is another opportunity for her to make him look at what he has done. Meanwhile, you are handling everything with dignity, class, and integrity. But SHE can put the mirror up and ask him how he can let this happen to you. She can tell him to be there for you. She can tell him that RT is responsible.

You go Sis, and don't feel bad. EVERYONE here wants you to succeed.

[color:"red"]EGG ZAK LEE [/color]

it is bothersome to hear my carrot/stick idea used as anything but a guide

I originated it when frustrated by one particular BS who refused to expose ... it has become a lot bigger than it was ever meant to be

Pep

SIS:

I knew you could speak up for yourself!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You are one strong, gutsy, insightful, admirable woman!!

I'd be willing to bet a million dollars that you have MORE THAN GAINED YOUR WH'S RESPECT!!!

You are right, Lex, except I don't know if MIL has anymore sway that I do at this point. From my converstions with her...again last night to "tattle" on WH (which she appreciated, BTW)...she feels she doesn't get through to him either. She can tell over the phone if it's WH she's talking to, and if it's him, then she might as well be talking to a brick wall. So a long distance a$$ whupping is pretty much pointless. Besides, the talk about hurting the boys...it's SOOO OBVIOUS! An idiot would agree that this is hurtful! Yet WH doesn't care. He just doesn't care. Speaking to WH about something so obvious, rational, and logical...MIL might as well be speaking Mandarin. She can't cut through the fog any better than I can. I WISH I KNEW WHO COULD CUT THROUGH THE FOG...BESIDES RT.

MIL has on MANY occassions CRIED to him, YELLED at him, begged him to turn away from this path. He is UNMOVED. This is a man who loves/loved his mother dearly. I think you are right in your first statement:
"In his mind, it took big balls to get as far out as he has. He had to go against public opinion, family opinion, and hurt everyone. And now that he's this far out, he's not going to be easily led back. He is going to fight against every Plan A effort you make."

This frightens me A LOT. He never liked to be wrong when he wasn't a WH. Now that he's out on this limb, he ain't gonna cut it off behind him, he'll just keep scooting out further and further until it breaks. So what can I do...except be me. Be who I am, the best person I can be. Clearly being angry, venting, laying the guilt trip didn't work. So...show love, show him my changes, show him what he's missing, and ask him to leave RT at the curb and return as my H. If he chooses instead to destroy himself and irreparably his children, family, reputation, etc. in the process...I cannot stop him. Right now, however, I can't accept that there's no hope...so the only thing I can do is what we call a Plan A...it's my only remaining option. And SH told me to stay in Plan A. I have to trust that; he's the pro.

MIL told me last night that WH has also made reference to the fact that he "knows" that she and I talk all the time. I don't know how he would know this...I have not told him, I always call her after the boys are asleep, and she has just told him that we talk occassionally. He said to her at one point, "I don't know why I'm telling you all this, you know it already."

MIL believes that WH has the idea that there's some big conspiracy against him....which would mean (in his eyes) that she DOES have some other agenda....to push him back to me.

Yes, the BIG conspiracy is the mounting pressure he feels b/c he KNOWS what he is doing is WRONG!

He KNOWS it! He KNOWS it w/ every fiber of his being.

This is why he tries to stop you from saying it's the A that's causing his loved ones pain. He knows it! He can't escape it. But, he wants to, and tries to.

He's like a cat who has a tin can tied to its tail...he keep running from that can, but he can't run fast enough. It's always there. Always.

You're doing a fabulous job. You seem to be very in touch w/ your feelings and are being true to who you are.

~ Marsh

The quote below is from an active thread and was posted this afternoon. Just to keep this aspect of things real.

Lilsis... you are doing a great job. Take all the information you get here and from the Harleys and apply it to your situation. You have a chance to save things and need to follow your instincts...reading this stuff though I get worried when I see some people saying that reaching for the condoms could kill a mood.... or hey, this worked for me... frankly, those people were lucky they didn't catch anything. You said earlier in this thread that the best thing you can do for your kids is to keep your family intact. No, it isn't. The best thing you can do for your kids is to make sure you keep yourself sane and healthy enough to care for them so they are NEVER being raised in a household that includes that RT Ho.

Your MIL sounds like a great lady. It is a shame that her son is being such an as$ that he is willing to risk his relationship with her, you and the kids. Very sad man.







DF:

If she's been tested because she suspected an STD, then there's a reason.

You should get tested as well.

and NO SF until you're sure it's safe.

-ol' 2long


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



My WW said her Dr. suspected an STD.

And I agree, nothing until I am checked. Not that I will be doing anything anytime soon.

Sis,

I don't know why I'm telling you this, other than to just let you know. My husband's mother and father were divorced when he was 8, due to his father finding another woman. His dad and the OW married.

His mother, well, she actually did her own Plan A (this was long before MB was invented!). For 8 years, she was in Plan A. This is a very strong woman!

No one in his family EVER accepted his RT/OW. No one in his family ever accepted his behavior, nor told him anything other than that he did the wrong thing. The affair-marriage failed when he lost his money (I am guessing RT/OW had a high EN for financial support?).

He knew all along that he was stupid. He knew all along that he was wrong. He just could not admit it. He is the type who had to be completely, totally, and utterly broken before he would admit how stupid and wrong he is.

He went crawling back to his REAL wife. His parents remarried one another when my husband was 16. They are still together now, 40 years later.

I'm holding out hope that your H is in there. You just need to catch him at the right moment, when WH is not around, and H is there. Because H is the one and only person who can lead himself out of this mess - and if he has the balls to get himself to where he is, I believe he has them to admit the mistake. You are just the lighthouse, like you said. He steers the ship. Right now, he's uncomfortable because H knows what he's done. WH is still acting like a little kid who wants what he wants. H has to fight the whole mess, and it isn't easy, so of course WH has to tell you to stop - you are messing up his sand castle!

Don't stop unless you absolutely have to. Even if the marriage doesn't get saved, you will look back proudly and say that it wasn't because you didn't try.


On another note, is he going to the sentencing? Either way, I would ask the court, for "the record" to make a note of why the original plea agreement was set aside. And WHO did that - so you can show him the true nature of RT, in writing, from someone else. Then, give him a copy of the court record in writing, for his own interesting reading. Might make an interesting conversation for affairland.

Just something to think about.

SB

MEDC: I am a LOOONG way from SF. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SB: I appreciate the story...a happy ending, but really so sad, isn't it? Shows how deep the addiction can go, and how stubborn some people can be. A toxic combination, really. About tomorrow: I asked about the "disappearing" plea deal already, and was told that information was priviledged. Now the sentencing recommendation...THAT is public record...so I will know what RT said.


Thank you so much...despite the various opinions that are flying among posters...I have to do what feels right to me. Right now, continuing with my plan feels right. It's not easy, and I still need lots of help and support from you all, but I am doing what *I* need to do. When it starts to stink, I'll know, and at that point can call SH for next steps.

LilSis,

I can only imagine what you are going through right now, my thoughts and prayers will be with you for your court date, and on-going.

What time is the sentencing?

<<LilSis>>

LilSis,
You don't know me. I've been lurking around for 6 or so months. I hardly ever post, but I follow your story intently. I find myself thinking of you often and checking this forum throughout the day to see how things are going for you.

You have inspired me in more ways than you could ever know. I won't threadjack w/ my story, but let's just say that this MB forum...stopped my "story" from ever actually happening.

Now, I follow because I have genuine care and concern for people on this board that I have never even talked to. I am amazed at the wisdom and compassion for each other.

If you don't mind, I'd like to know what time your hearing is tomorrow so I can pray for you and lift you up before you face your sentencing. I'm sure I won't be the only one doing so.

Dittoes on the time for tomorrow. With the prayer thing. Even though I'm not Catholic, or even Orthodox, I'm pretty sure the Big Guy still hears my pleas.

SB

I lost a much longer post, so just let me say that my prayers are with you.

{{{{LilSis}}}}

With humility and gratitude, I welcome your prayers. My hearing is at 8:30 a.m. EST. My mom arrived this afternoon and is going with me (she's been positive so far). I've made arrangements for others to take the boys to school so we have plenty of time. My office is across the street from the courthouse, and a couple of my co-workers who know what's happening said they would come over in a flash if I need additional moral support.

I truly feel blessed to have such wonderful support...virtual and "real life."

I am scheduled to be "math helper" in DS8's classroom at 10:30. I did not cancel...I am determined that I will not let the morning's events take me away from that time with DS8. He is always so delighted when I come in, so that is my incentive to pull myself together no matter the outcome. I'll be sure to post as soon as I have a chance.

I did some praying of my own this afternoon and will do more after the boys are in bed. I am just praying for strength, peace, and serenity. It is in God's hands.

You will most likely be in and out of there in no time with a slap on the wrist! I speak from experience.

As far as the SF stuff... I know you THINK you are a long way off... but who knows... he could take you up on one of these offers of yours and I would be well prepared so you do not get caught up in a moment you could regret all the rest of your life.

Lilsis...you will be fine tomorrow. Calm, cool and collected. And only ask about the change in the plea agreement if things are NOT going your way. Otherwise... it is yes, your honor... no, your honor. Short, simple, remorseful and it will go well.

Lil sis...prayers your way...

You are incredible!

LilSis,

You will be fine tomorrow. As MEDC says, short, simple, resmorseful....

We're here when you need us...

Co-signed on the prayers for you. Find peace in knowing God is at the helm.

Jo