So did I.

Especially when LilSis described that one Sat. afternoon w/ their dad.

And then when Lilsis described taking the boys to church on HIS weekend. I thought...Ouch!

LilSis, after you LISTEN to what he has to say and acknowledge his feelings and your mistakes...bring up Sunday w/ him. Tell him, you trust him w/ your boys and will no longer be picking them up from IL's to take them to church when he has them.

~ Marsh

LS:

Could you include the letter that Neak recommends with one of the Roses?

This letter should be done after your meeting on Thursday

LG

the more i think about it, I agree w/ the boys being home in your situation.

if it were me, it would be better to have them gone.....my H always complained of the children interrupting....but, I think your H is missing his family and home and all that goes w/ that.

Sis,

Translation of this?????

"I want you to need me."

The crack you wanted is there. Capitalize on it. You do need him with your sons. He wants to be needed with your sons.

Need him.

SB

Sis,

I'm so excited! This convo really is huge. 10,000 of us see the light peeking through. A smidgen of light, but it's there. You talked to H. Not WH.

My only advice is when you talk to him about all this, stay calm, and don't respond too fast to what he says. Let him talk more than you do, or at least as much. Ask open-ended questions, and ask his advice.

Oh BTW - don't you still NEED help with that water heater, or did he already fix it?

SB

I say get a babysitter...

PLAN A demonstration of how you have changed..

You are on your way, SIS...

Nails in the coffin of this affair..BAM..BAM..BAM...

Just like we've been telling you..the ADMIRATION..he wants to be NEEDED....

So what if he feels pressured when he is alone with you?

He shows up..no kids..SURPRISE..SURPRISE...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

yes ... and more in this vein....

imagine this :
H says something that makes you feel instinctually defensive

LS wants to respond
no I did not
that's not true
how can you say that?

[b]intead LS says

[color:"red"] tell me more
can you give me details
is there anything else you want to add
this gives me a lot to think about
thank you so much for sharing things that are difficult to share
that really must have been hard for you
I see
I understand
this sharing makes me want you even more [/color]

this is NOT the time to go 10 rounds with WH about all the revisionist history he will throw at you

that is for RECOVERY

YOUR mission (should you choose to accept it) is to get him to trust you enough to share his feelings with you ... and that's IT

Pep

I would like to offer a different perspective on the kids at home...

One of my H's biggest problems with my former self was that I did not listen to his suggestions. He considered that both disrespectful and a "slap-in-his-face, I-know-a-better-way" kind of behavior. Your WH said just send the boys upstairs...so send the boys upstairs. Why not offer a subtle admiration of his ability to offer a suggestion?

Good point, Still...

But Sis doesn't have much time...


HER H DOES NOT WANT HER PLAN A TO WORK and probably wants the kids there to thwart his own desires for her...

IMO, Sis' job is to STEP OUT OF THE PARENT/FRIEND ROLE where he has cast her...

He has to experience her as another option as a love interest (I know..YUCK) while he is in PLAN B...if that happens..

Along with RESPECTING him..it is important to let him know that she NEEDS and DESIRES him as a LOVER..not just sexually..but as HER MAN...

Mimi:

I recommended the boys in the house for the HOME effect. We are all at HOME.

I then I would recommend that the next meeting not have the kids in the house.

Draw him into the Web, make him more and more comfortable to be back in the house...

Slowly drawing him in. LilSis has laid out the hook, by offering to meet Fri at the Restaurant. H says he can not make that and he suggests Thur Afternoon. So stay with that....

And LB's Will follow with RT. "You were in the House?" "What were you doing?"

H would say "Discussing my Children."

And that's why he was there and RT is LB him with it.....

SO it is important that the kids be around. LilSis can let the boys know beforehand that Dad is coming by and she needs some time to talk with him.

But the next time...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

LG

PS: LilSis, follow Pep's instructions during the Convo, let HIM talk. And it will be your H....

More developments...

Went to my support group tonight and really got into some stuff about my dad's death...pretty sad. Came home...on my way home I stopped by ILs to drop off the four roses, which were in the car from earlier in the day. Made it home, still sad and upset, which made it even harder to look at the garbage and recycling that needed to be taken out. So I'm in the basement cleaning out the litter boxes (what a treat) and I'm crying.

The boys and WH come walking in. I come upstairs tears in my eyes, carrying my little goodie bag of cat poo.
DS11: What's wrong?
LS: I'm okay. (to WH) Do you know where I go on these Wednesdays?
WH: No.
LS: A support group for grief and loss.
WH kind of rolls his eyes, and I lean my head against the door jamb and start crying....
LS: Could you please take care of the garbage for me tonight?
WH: Yes. Do you want me to do the upstairs, too?
LS: Yes, please.
The boys both come to hug me, then they start showing me the balloon figures that they got at the restaurant. WH comes back with the half-filled garbage bag. I hold it for him while he dumps in the kitchen garbage.
LS: Can you take care of the recycling, too?
WH: Is that this week, too?
LS: Yes.
Then I break down, and go to put my arms around him. He's holding back a little.
LS: I talked about my dad.
WH: Oh, no. (he wraps his arms around me, holding me)
I am sobbing, shaking, that kind of crying. The boys come over and they hug both of us, patting me on the back.
LS: I miss him so much.
WH: I know you do.
I keep crying...it's just too much, you know? I'm just overcome at this point...so much emotion lately. He's practically holding me up, I'm leaning right into him. He just holds me and lets me cry. This must have gone on for 3-4 minutes. Finally I get myself together, pull away and look up at him with a small smile and said thanks. He smiles and goes on with collecting the trash.

He hauls everything outside--trash and recycling--and comes back and shovels more of the driveway. He comes back in the house to say good-bye.
LS: I don't suppose you want to take charge of the whole bedtime thing tonight.
WH: No, (then to the boys...) but you boys will go right upstairs and brush your teeth and get to bed for your mom, no problems, right?
Boys: yeah dad...hugs, kisses

I'll post this and go for installment 2

there's more !!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

on the edge of my seat here...waiting for installment 2

hoping, praying, etc

...so as he's getting ready to walk out the door, I give him a hug and say thank you, how much I really appreciated him taking care of things tonight, it meant a lot to me. He's giving me a pretty strong one-armed hug. Love you, I say and he begins walking out.

The cat starts to dart out between his feet, and I say...oh that cat, she has a worm. (Sorry I know this is gross, but I have not had time to take her to the vet...another thing WH always did)

WH: Did you bring her to the vet? (He's coming back in the house now)
LS: No, I just haven't had time.
WH: I think there's some pills in the cabinet. (He's taking his boots off and coming back into the kitchen and starts rummaging thru the cabinet)
WH: Yeah, these. Do you want me to give them to her?
LS: Yeah...that's great! I didn't know we had that stuff.
WH: Well, I hope it's the right ones. If she's dead tomorrow we'll know. Where's the kitty?
We all track down the cat, and WH finds her upstairs. He sits down and prys her mouth open and shoves in the pill. I'm holding her feet so he don't end up needing a transfusion. After he's done he hops up and goes in the bathroom to wash his hands. I watch as the cat spits out the pills.
LS: Oops. there they go.
WH: What? Did she spit them out?
LS: Right there.
WH laughs: where'd she go?
We go downstairs again, trying to find her. She's hiding under the kitchen table, trying to spit. WH grabs her again, and I hold her paws again, this time we sit there and hold her until she's swallowed the darn pill. The kids think this is wonderful entertainment. WH gets up, washes his hands, and he's ready to leave. Before he leaves, he picks up the other cat (the good one) and hands him to me. This cat is 14 and the BEST CAT EVER. But he's starting to have a funny odor from his nose...
LS: I'm worried about Charlie's nose.
WH sniff it: Yeah, maybe a tumor...dogs get those. He's so old. (He tells a quick story about the cat they had when they were kids. He talks about the cat at his ILs house, how he wakes up WH at night licking his ear.)
LS: Thanks again.
WH: You're welcome.
He walks out the door, and I mouth "love you," he smiles and waves.

All in all, good interaction.

Boy...I really didn't intend to give anyone the idea that it was anything EXCITING...
Just didn't want to lose my post.

OH OH OH FORGOT TO SAY...
During the time I was crying into his sweatshirt, I said, "Why did he have to die?" and WH didn't say anything, but I could feel him shaking his head. I then said, "I still need him." and almost said "I need you, too," but it would have felt so contrived...I was feeling it, but I wouldn't have wanted to him to think that I was manipulating him.

Sorry, it will take me a while to get thru all these posts, and I am beat. I totally agree...I didn't have time to provide any commentary about that conversation, but I totally picked up on that, too...which was why my first reaction, "maybe I was wrong" was QUICKLY followed by "I WAS wrong." I realized as soon as I said it that is what he needed to hear: I was wrong: I DO need you!

I will reinforce ALL of that tomorrow, plus the "good dad" stuff. The kids WILL be here...WH will have them and we are meeting back here after my IC appt. just after 3. I will make cookies and soup earlier in the day, so I can invite him to stay for dinner. If he declines, at least he can bring home a doggie bag.

No worries about me ending up LBing because of revisions history, etc. The advantage of spending the first five months post d-day screaming at him is that I have HEARD IT ALL and it has lost its sting. I'm working a plan now and my armor for dealing with those barbs is pretty strong now.

And as I've said before--even though it hardly makes sense even to me--WH is not out to get me or out to hurt me. He may be cold and unfeeling much of the time, but he doesn't intentionally try to hurt me...since he's totally foggy, it does, but he doesn't get that.

Anyway...Since I began plan a, I have been good at keeping my cool (NOW). Even the times that I have been remotely...firm?...with him were when I was dealing with a boundary issue.

I am also pretty good on my feet...when dealing with emotional issues, I am quite good at framing things in the proper way....how to elicit a response, how to set a tone, how to ask open ended questions, how to be empathetic...

Sorry...just realized that's WAAY TMI on my pets. Going to shut down and go to bed.

Night-night LisSis. I'm an animal lover, and enjoy hearing about people's pets. Plus I think pets are a bonding thing.