MEDC:

I think your right:



But not for the reasons given. I do understand about him having to prove that it was paid. But that can be dealt with when and if it ever comes up. And he can create a new check at any time.

I can't debate right now, I have to run. But I am looking for the most immediate effect right here. And I believe it works in LS's favor to not cash it, nor give it back. He will see it on the fridge. If he wants it.

I can flesh out my side more tommorrow...

About the check:
Technically, WH could write a check and deposit it into our joint account just as he has done with the direct deposit since August. So I don't get the big deal, frankly. That account is where the support will go in the future, to my knowledge. He doesn't have my individual account info to set up direct deposit, and we are not going through FOC.

My firm stance is that I am not going to do ANYTHING overt to enable this "support" thing. It is contrary to my beliefs and values. If he wants to do something on his own...let him. There is nothing preventing him from doing so.

I cannot forsee an instance where he would need "proof" unless I accused him--in court--of not paying. Which would be perjury.

I tried handing him the check back and he held his hands up. I tried sticking it in his coat pocket and he turned away.

On the Phoenix thing:
I am conflicted. WH would be under the positive influence of his parents, and away from RT. So I don't want to DISCOURAGE or IMPEDE it...but I won't be a doormat, either. I could tell him that I have made plans for that weekend that was supposed to be "his", what are his thoughts on how we can make this happen for both of us? Can we work together on this.

The boys can't go with him...it's just two weeks befor spring break and they'd miss like 8 days of school.

Who chased whom?
Neither, really. We met when we were in our mid-20s...kinda BTDT with the whole cat and mouse thing. We both knew what we wanted, and we both knew it right away. We lived an hour apart at the time, so we had to work to spend time together. Mostly he'd come to my place, but that was probably due as much to the fact that I had a nice apartment.

Quality of tonight's interactions
Yes, they were relatively nice. However, DS11 realized shortly after WH left that his math book was missing. He called WH to ask if it was in the truck (got VM). After about 10 minutes (DS11 is near tears at this point, stressing over losing his book), I told him to call his dad again. This time, WH picked up, and told him he'd look in the truck.

About a half hour later, still no call back. I thought maybe I misunderstood DS11, so I questioned him...was dad going to call if he DIDN'T find the book, just so you know? DS11 isn't sure. I told him to call WH again and see if he looked.

WH tells DS11 that he's "busy doing something" right now and he'll check when he's done, and call back. With all the bedtime stuff, I pretty much forgot about it until about a half hour ago...11:00. "Nope, no math book in the truck. Guess he left it at school."

WH KNEW that DS11 was in tears when he called! He admitted it to me on the phone just now...and STILL...he's too "busy" to go check the truck, call his son back and reassure him that it's probably at school, that it's no big deal, that no one will be upset, that these things happen.

NO. He's too busy to do that. He waits until he's ALL DONE getting his fix...then he tends to his son's needs.

Alien jacka$$.

I'm gonna tell his momma on him!

YOU MET A LOT OF ENs TONIGHT!!! GREAT PLAN A STUFF!! ADMIRATION..AFFECTION..DOMESTIC SUPPORT...message to his brain..THIS IS MY HOME...PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVENESS..WOW...!!!



WOW!!! DING!! DING!! DING!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't understand about the check.

Is there any reason that RT would want him to prove to her that he gave it to you and you deposited it?

MEDC: maybe you misinterpreted my/WH's interaction tonight re; the check. While I was being light-hearted, he was not being mean/serious. He was trying to convince me. He was not nervous or frightened. My light-heartedness was not threatening to him.

Let's just say he wasn't being pissy. I've seen him get pissy before, it his wasn't it...this was "c'mon, would you?" A step or two above cajoling? (too late for me to be much more specific than that)

Me neither.

and

Not that I can think of...but I'm not a rat. Who knows how a rat thinks? Maybe I should ask Georgia or one of her babies.

Sis:

You are HILARIOUS tonight!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yep, I did. But just to be clear... I agree with your position on this. You are doing the right thing. I was just concerned with how he would take it.

I guess my logic is that he knows how big of a jerk he is being and that there is a likely possibility that he thinks you are eventually going to get really mad at him. Think WS here... he KNOWS he has hurt you terribly and KNOWS that if he leaves himself open for payback that it might happen. Deceptive and hurtful people... even if it is just a temporary condition.. always are watching their own back since they know they have "it" coming to them. Kind of the no honor among theives concept. That is my reasoning... but you know him best and should always follow your instincts.
MEDC

WOW is right.
what did his voice sound like when he asked "what do you mean?"
i wonder if he was anticipating a different answer.....wonder how he would have reacted if you touched "him" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />....know what i mean?

my H was very "easy" whenever I iniated affection or SF......he melted. Yet, he really NEEDED me to be clear about my intentions....he was very fearful of rejection or worse from me.

can't help but to wonder if your H was hoping for a more detailed invitation on "getting together."

not that your answer was wrong...it was good....it works.


thought of you yesterday.....I made vegetable soup and admired the snow.

MEDC: That is exactly why I need to continue in Plan A. If I went to B, he would see that as the "it" he had coming. The longer I go without getting mad, LBing, doing anything that can be construed as accepting of D, the longer I show him love and forgiveness...the more he will TRUST me. He needs to understand that I have his back, as LG says.

I TMd him at about 7:30: "Breakfast? Old times sake..."

I did not get a response (surprise). I drove past ILs after dropping the kids off; thought if WH were there that I would pop in and invite him in person. But alas, no truck in the drive. Again. At 8:30 am, he's not there.

COULD he be spending the night?!? (I know you all think YES!) I asked MIL last night if she thought that was possible and she thought no, he couldn't POSSIBLY...it's SO inappropriate and WRONG. But we both agreed that they seemed to have no concerns about propriety during the two years they were "undercover." (ugh...no pun intended there).

If he's not spending the night, he's getting up and getting going AWFULLY darn early for his day off. I drove past the coffee shop, too...not there either. I did not have the guts to drive past RT's house. It would be like a knife in the heart. Do you think I should have?

Still need a plan for tonight...I've got to convince him to come the DS8's concert AS A FAMILY. Ideas?

nia: I think something so "overt" would freak him out. The one time I did something like that was this summer, after I had been out with my friend and had a beer (at 90 some pounds, one beer was all it took). I really came on hot and heavy, and got a "response" if you know what I mean, but WH would NOT bite. Said he "couldn't."

Suddenly a crisis of conscience? or fear of betraying his "soulmate"? Anyway, this was months ago.

I feel like asking him flat out...Are you afraid of me? And if he says something about not wanting to hurt me (ummm...little late...), I so long to say, "Why don't you let ME worry about me."

ETA: That night this summer, he LET me get close. We had been having one of those sobbing, LBing arguments that had gone on for about an hour. Now he is so freaked that--on the few occassions that he is actually IN MY PRESENSE--he practically jumps out of his skin when I touch him.

I did not have the guts to drive past RT's house. It would be like a knife in the heart. Do you think I should have?

No way.

It's morbid curiosity LS. There is no actual need to know, it serves no purpose except to place you in emotional turmoil.

I would assume that he probably IS spending the night.

Then work on processing it and moving past it.

As gross as it is one of the uglies is that they ARE setting themselves as a legit couple and possibly a family...it is not unlikely in the slightest that they have been laying the tracks there [and do YOU think RT would be unaware of the implications or fail to miss the opportunity to get him more tightly entrenched?]

Lilsis...do not drive by... it will serve no purpose as you already know of the affair. Do not allow your curiousity to hurt you even more than you have been.

I know...no drive by...I suppose I wanted you all to remind me NOT TO. I'm always slightly proud of myself when I can resist that impulse. How twisted is that? It's like being proud of myself for deciding to NOT shoot myself in the foot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Have you not heard that I am the QUEEN OF THE DRIVEBYs and always had to be encouraged to resist the URGE?

It's the LURE OF THE AFFAIR..getting caught up in the addiction...

and THE FOG...

Do you see what I have been telling you about ACCEPTANCE and not DENIAL?

Like Noodle says, assume that they are staying together..they most definitely are...

He's STRUGGLING TO MAINTAIN THE HIGH..to get it back..it's called BINGING....because she is definitely loosing her touch....


Stay coy, Sis...lay back and let him take the lead..DON'T TRY TO ARRANGE ANYTHING with or for the kids...throw out OFFERS of one on one get togethers with you..keep throwing out OFFERS and he will BITE..he's is wanting to be a MAN about this..to be IN CHARGE....

Even now, my H likes this..to be the courter, to be the wooer..to come in on his white horse and sweep me away...

I used to be like you..in charge of ARRANGING things..even my boys don't like it when I get into that mode..I used to think that it was the RIGHT THING TO DO and they liked it..I've learned soooo much about MANHOOD and their need to be RESPECTED....

I am trying to catch up. Whew... I've been out sick from work for most of the week. I had to comment on this, I'm sure as I read along everyone else will have already said it but I just have to add my .02. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I definately see this as cracks forming. My FWH started out by sending me joke emails once in awhile. Then he would send me picture texts through his cell. Very slowly the cracks started building up.

Yay Lilsis!!!!

mimi...you are SO good with this. This is EXACTLY what I was referring to yesterday when I said I needed to be CALLED on stuff. The statement above made my little lightbulb go CLICK!

So...I'm backing off. I made the offer last night about the concert. I attempted contact this morning. I will not pursue this issue further. I have told him that I TRUST HIM, that I BELIEVE IN HIM, that I know he LOVES the boys...tonight is when I put my money where my mouth is. He needs to make his own choice about the concert.

Step back, let go, and let him be his own person, let him decide, respect his choice. Sort of like I did with the Super Bowl. Accept him for who he is....even now, as a WH. No expectations. (BUT...that doesn't mean I won't or can't still be disappointed or angry in private...or here on the boards, okay?)

Continue to invite him for dinner, for breakfast, for coffee. Casual, low key, no pressure, friendly. Accept the "no" with grace and a smile.

Regarding the sleeping situation:
Would it be appropriate to follow up with MIL..."you know, we had that talk last night about WH spending the night at RT's. I've been by the house EARLY on a number of mornings on his days off and he's not been there. It is not an unrealistic assumption that he's staying the night with her. Without letting him know that I've been "spying," would it be worthwhile to confront him on how inappropriate (for about 1000 reasons) it is for him to stay at RTs...even for him to BE at RT's since he's still married?" (MIL feels SOOO strongly about this...he is STILL MARRIED and to her it is simply dispicable to have any contact whatsoever; she just groans in disgust)

BTW...I didn't know you were the queen of drive-bys, mimi.

LilSis:

His attorney (and reading the document the court sent him and you) has told him that he needs to pay you that differential between the amount already paid and the court ordered amount. So, WH is paying it. Because the court can get mad at him and create difficulty in his law officer position and personally. Plus RT sees it as progress.

If only we could get his attorney to tell him pull his head out, stop this crazy stuff and move back home to LS and her family.

Would WH listen to that?

No. So, do not be concerned about the check. Let him deal with whatever pressure he is getting from whatever direction.

You stated your boundary to WH. "I do marriage, my attorney does divorce."

Your WH will keep coming back to you about the check. Smile sweetly and tell him to "do what he has to do."

But, he was driving away, which got you out of this conversation. IF it comes up again, always leave yourself an out, OK. Because HE has to MAKE YOU DO IT NOW. This can become a battle of wills, somewhat. Your acceptance, by cashing the check, and your allowing him to cross your boundary, will give him a victory, and tacit approval of his affair. So, leave yourself an out. "It's on the fridge if you want it" and then change the subject.

If he really starts cajoling you about it, really trying to get you to lower your boundary. You really know you have got him. Repeat: "It's on the fridge" and change the subject. Because the check is about divorce. You saying no is about supporting your M.

And I wanted to comment on this:



As hard as it is to imagine, this is actually good. He wants to "remain true to RT". Think about it as if you were the OW. You are interfering with his current relationship. And it terrifies him to know that you are getting back in. And if he isn't careful, you can blow up the entire facade that he is trying to pull off. WH's do not slowly change overnight. Suddenly, the dam breaks and it all comes loose. For example, he could hug your next door neighbor if SHE was having a bad day. And he felt she needed comforting. But if he had feelings for her, and might "Cheat", he needs to keep his distance. So, if he was to give you a real hug, allow that breakdown to occur, allow that crack in the dam as it were, Where does he stop?

I sooo see the success you are having.

Now for a difficult subject:
What are your plans for Valentines day?

Maybe you could ask Georgia what she has heard over the water cooler...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

EXACTLY!!! It's sooo hard sitting back. I made the mistake of ARRANGING some stuff for one of my sons recently. His life would run smoother if he was more organized...BUT..he is a man now and wants to fall down and pick himself up..on his own..must be NORMAL AND EXPECTED in manhood..cause he sure called me on it. "M, why do you keep doing this..I can handle it on my own". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />



EXACTLY..when Daze catches up, she may have ideas, though...



He KNOWS it's INAPPROPRIATE, Sis..Having an affair is inappropriate. This will be a waste of time. He will continue to do it. When my H was sneaky, he parked his car elsewhere and she picked him up and took him to her house, him knowing that I was a DRIVEBY QUEEN....

SO SICK..the SECRETIVENESS of it makes it MORE FUN for them..just like teenagers as someone said...

I was really awful about driving by...either driving by his apartment when we were separated or her house. She covered her garage windows with brown paper during the A because he was parking his truck in her garage...so I wouldn't see it...even the side door window was covered up. It really became a compulsive addiction for me which I knew wasn't helping me or the situation at all...but still did it. I wanted to catch them...even though I knew full well they were always together...sick.

As you said, it probably did help them maintain the excitment of their affair.

It also makes you the common enemy.

Stepping out of that role no matter how hard they try to press it apon you is crucial.

I like leaving the check for him to cash in a nonconflicty way.

JUST LIKE ME, TRIX!! Those who haven't been BSes would not even believe this stuff if we told them...

THERE'S SUCH VALUE IN OUR SUPPORT GROUP HERE!!!