(((SIS)))

Those kinds of conversations suck.

When W's start having some consequences, they have to take them out on someone. And guess who is convenient. It's so much easier for them when everything is YOUR fault.

When my H was a WH, he also told me he resented me. He told me he HATED me, that he couldn't stand to be in the same room with me, that he would be humiliated to ever be seen in public with me, that he wished he could "choke the s#it" out of me.

And now, he tells me how much he regrets ever saying those things, even though he *thought* he meant them at the time.

It's so, so painful to hear those things.

And that's when you have to remember ... drug addict ... rabbit hole ..... whatever picture you have ....

And show him that you are still capable of forgiveness and love, even when you're under fire like this. And be really careful so you don't end up prematurely getting pushed into Plan F.U....


What did he mean about you not living up to your vows?

Your situation is as close to mine as ANY that I have seen on MBers...

I've had the almost EXACT CONVERSATION with my FORMER..I say FORMER..WH, SIS...

WORDS...WORDS are what you heard from him...

Him venting out his PAIN and ANGER over the MESS that he has made of his life...

PASSION..that's what this is between you...and that is not ALL BAD..

Yes, an extremely HURTFUL conversation but there remains MUCH PASSION between the two of you....



Actually..this is WONDERFUL..that you were being HONEST with each other..and he is acknowledging his WRONGNESS...



He is saying that he "RESENTS" you for EXPOSING HIS AFFAIR not for WHO YOU ARE..He has caused this and he is PROJECTING ONTO YOU...



Listen to this very carefully:

He is ANGRY with you NOW because you have robbed him of the HIGH and the FUN of his AFFAIR. Although this FEELS REAL BAD to you, Sis..looking back in hindsight and from what I have learned from my H's affair, THIS WILL SPELL THE END OF HIS AFFAIR. I may be wrong but I believe this with all of my heart... Because the AFFAIR now FEELS BAD TO HIM..It no longer FEELS GOOD...He is blaming this on you..rightly so..because you did do this. You have accomplished an important goal of yours. YOU DID THIS TO SAVE YOUR FAMILY...YOUR MARRIAGE..and EVEN HIM..I really do believe that a part of him knows this...BUT HE IS MISSING THE HIGH OF HIS COCAINE..He is not able to go to her and receive relief anymore...She will not be able to soothe his pain or to take away THE ACHE tonight..I guarantee you...



"SO THAT I CAN FEEL THAT GOOD FEELING AGAIN..I'M STRUGGLING TO GET IT BACK..I CAN'T GET IT BACK"....



You see????

Completely agree with mimi [and ami]...

Nothing even to add really.

It all boils down to one very vital fact...WH FEELS bad.

He may be blaming you [or trying].

He may hope that eliminating you will bring the high back.

Yet there the facts arw laid bare before us all.

The affair is no longer sufficient to sustain him and keep his consciense at bay...and oh is he ever trying.

I say redouble your plan A efforts and prepare for plan B...I smell ripeness about him.

You know...it hurts but I'm really okay. By that I mean I'm standing..as opposed to curled up in a lump. (you know what I mean, I know you all do)

MIL is SUCH A HUGE BLESSING. I spend an hour on the phone just sobbing in her ear and she's making those cooing noises. My therapist is such a big on on "letting the emotions flow through you" not stuffing them all up...and in this case it WORKED. I was conscious of that...

******

THE PHONE JUST RANG

WH: did you call your attorney to have him get FOC out of this?
LS: No..........you know, I can't do this right now. (I'm emotionally WRUNG OUT)
WH: Would you call your attorney, please?
LS: (sigh) Did you call yours?
WH: Yes, but he's with someone. (so now it's MY problem??)
LS: Okay, well...for one thing...it will cost me $100 just to say hello to him on the phone. And for another thing...

And I stated my case again..calmly. This is not something that I initiated. I believe that WH is mistaken...this is simply how the process works. All I did was walk into the attorneys office and hand him the sheets of paper that WH had signed suing me for divorce witht the names and birthdates of our children on it...and said, "here."

My attorney asked if those two sheets of paper were all that came and I said yes. So he took the next steps...whatever those were...I really didn't want to know because I don't even want this divorce. I NEVER SENT IN THE CARDS THAT SAID THIS WAS GOING THRU FOC. The words "FOC" have never been uttered by my attorney in my presence. That the temporary order that I attorney came up with was signed by WH's attorney...so why is any of this a big surprise.

That it is completely unfair of him to ream me out for responding to a divorce action that HE INITIATED. Particularly when I had no INTENT of going to FOC...that's just how this thing WORKS.

I reminded him AGAIN that I have NEVER SIGNED ANYTHING.

I finished by telling him to find out from his attorney what needs to be done and I will do it.

After I spoke, there was about a one minute (which is a long time) silence. Then he said quietly, "good-bye." and I said good bye back. click.


...right back here to MB...

(I'm thinking maybe RT's husband and RT came up with a whole separate agreement as opposed to doing things through the formal legal/court channels...but NO WAY NO HOW am I sitting down to rationally discuss how to dissolve my marriage. So maybe WH has this idea that that's how it's DONE...we can just SAY we are going to do something and that's good. I pointed out that it wasn't good enough to keep your promise when you made a vow before God so how can he blame me for wanting to protect me and the kids)

Sorry...I know I'm going to babble a lot tonight as things come to me...so just bear with me.

I was thinking as I was sitting in the carpool line at school...this is the rollercoaster that Daze was just telling me was speeding up...

I love you all. I hope that doesn't offend...or that you think it's cheesy that I say that when I've never met any of you. But you all know me better than 90% of the people in my life right now, and you are still hanging in here with me, even through this icky stuff. Is that normal?

I think he just feels bad because he's going to be humiliated by having the little FOC line item in his check. People will think that he's not good for the child support he owes! That he'll only pay it if the government garnishes it from his wages! How humilating!

And the "ache" thing that you referred to, mimi...

he was SPECIFICALLY referring to an "ache" about my being sent to jail...NOT an ache about what he's done or the A in general.

AmI: how did I not live up to my vows:

Because I "held back." I said, "you mean I wasn't perfect? I wasn't exactly the way you THOUGHT I should be? You mean I was HUMAN and flawed?" Apparently...yes. Again and again, I have acknowledged my failings to him...again and again he hashes them out when it suits him to justify his A.

Until today...when he finally admitted that was not cause to break his vows. (or whatever his exact words were...I'm a little hazy at this point)

LS...I know right now you are hurt, angry, confused and every other emotion out there, so I just want you to know I am behind you all the way and praying for you and your family every day.

Also, I agree with mimi...that conversation with your H was full of passion. I could feel/hear the passion from him just reading your words. You are making a huge dent in his heart and his mind. Just keep at it and do not get discouraged...no matter how much the lion roars!

Sis...

I think that you very much did the right thing in telling him to call his attorney...stick to your guns on that one...He wants this divorce, then HE must do all the "heavy lifting"...NOT your problem...In fact, I think that you should tell him that his attorney will have to contact yours, as you do not do divorce, your attorney does, you only do marriage...Do not allow him to engage you in conversations that have to do with divorce...Always stick to your mantra...

You did just fine! (((SIS)))

Mrs. W

Well [in the words of my ancestors] DUH!

You didn't think he'd feel bad 'cause he was owning this didja?

That little FOC line on his check is what I like to call "exposure".

It says...you are a man who puts his affair ahead of his children and are not trustworthy.

He has a little judge inside him somewhere that has already condemned him...he already KNOWS tha he is guilty and every BIT as bad a father as that line implies.

Now no way is he gonna put any consideration in there..he'll more likely rebell against it...but his HUMILIATION is revealing.

mimi and AmI in particular, since i know you have experienced similar exchanges...

Did your FWH's sound VERY CONVINCING when they said those things? I didn't get a sense of "leave me alone/but not really"...it was more "LEAVE ME THE HE11 ALONE."

There was SOOOO MUCH ANGER. Certainly--to me--waaay out of proportion to the whole FOC thing.

still babbling.... (letting the emotions flow thru me...do you guys get $110 per hour, too?)

"leave me the H*LL alone...because I feel GUILTY AND CONFLICTED and I don't LIKE it..I want EASY not CONFLICT and DISCOMFORT...why can't you just accept and support so we can all be FRIENDS and I can get my various needs met by you BOTH...arggggg!"

LilSis:

I have to go with Mimi and Noodle here. I never did that.

That said.....

YOU ARE SO WINNING THIS BATTLE!

Yes, today is a bloody nose for you, but you are taking out all the supports he had as justification for HIS Affair.

YOU ARE AWESOME.

AND He knows it.

DO not speand anytime speculating on how RT's D worked. Do not spend any time speculating as to why he thinks that way.

DO send him a TM.

On that TM, state that "You love Him." "And there is still a place for you here." "If our couch is the first place you come back to, It will not be were you end up." C-LY-B

Since then another TM. That TM states "Since (DATE) I have never bad mouthed you to anyone. That's the day I decided I wasn't going to let you leave without a fight." The day I realized that putting our family back together had to be done. That the man I married was still there, wounded, but that WE could put it back together."

And do not call your MIL again. LEAVE THE PHONE OPEN, HERS TOO! WH is on the run right now. H can find his way back.

LilSis,

I dug for this old post of mine -



This happened almost 1 month to the day past the time H initiated NC with the OW. I had no idea that it was due to clearing fog or anything like it. H acted said things that were crueler than anything I could have ever imagined.

I see the honesty that just transpired between you as a turning point. It can still go either way, but I believe it will take a turn from here. I'll be lifting up your family in prayer.

(((LilSis)))

His anger is a good thing...it shows conflict and passion, and that he is still invested in his relationship with you.

Good. He SHOULD feel bad and he SHOULD feel humilated. Dumping your family to go screw another woman IS bad and IS humilating. If there's any way to keep that FOC line on his check, please do.

Do not protect him from one single consequence of his freely made choice to have an affair. Remember, this a carrot *and* a stick.
Mulan

I'm so sorry about your day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

He's like an animal trying to get out of a trap of his own making right now.

{{{{{{{{LilSis}}}}}}}}

The mean not-very-plan-A part of me thinks he deserves to see 'FOC' on his checks. Divorces have a way of turning contentious and nasty (although I'm praying you won't ever go through that). But you know him, and your way is no doubt best.

On the bright side, conflict is closer to intimacy than is withdrawl, as you know!

In the conversation you had yesterday, he sounded so sad to me. Today he got the FOC thing and had a reason (in his wayward pea-brain) to turn that sadness into anger <maybe>.

Hang in there as long as you can. This EMA has been long term.

{{{{{{{{{{{LilSis}}}}}}}}}}}

LS:

Never thought having a check on the Fridge would cause this much conflict for the WH, Huh?

Unintended consequenses....

Get some armor plate jacketing for your heat for the next couple of weeks. The venom can be fierce.

Remember your mantra's

This is worth it.
My Family is worth it.
Our Future is Worth it.
THIS too shall pass.

LG

do not call your attorney about FOC
just Plan A

your H is way more miserable than you are !!!

why?

you ADMIRE yourself a lot more than you did a month ago

H admires himself a LOT LESS than he did a month ago

the affair drug has a bad taste ... he's spitting and sputtering ... GOOD!

you stood up for your right to remain married .... which is part of PLAN A

listen to me ~~~> you did not love bust ... this conflict was PRODUCTIVE

he called you back to apologize ...

he's tired of the mud ...

Pep

It's colder and stickier than he expected I reckon.

I just got back.only read your post about the call from H and the conversation so far.....but, LS...i think it's good.
it's a good sign.....not pretty, for sure....but, I FEEL that it is a good sign...things are changing in HIM and he wants to talk to you......wants to get some of this cit off his chest...you guys need to do this.

ok...i'll go backa nd read the rest now.
sorry....but i was excited.