Was told that this was a more active place to post. Here is what I posted on the EN board.

"We have been married almost 13 years and have three children ages 12, 10, and 6. As with all marriages, there have been good and bad times. I have always been the one to screw up over the years, usually spending money unwisely and leaving us in a bind. Other screw ups have been not paying enough attention and being selfish to my own needs.

The last two major screw ups came just over a year ago. There was another financial screw up where I was hiding a separate account where I would put "mad" money for myself. The other screw up is the one I am most ashamed of and the one that I think was really the last straw.

Now I have always looked at porn, and my wife has never really approved, but has always kind of just let it go. This last screw up, I know I went too far. To get to the point, her younger sister happens to be a stripper and has non-nude photos posted on a local clubs website. Well, I happened to look at her pictures out of curiousity. It was very dispicable and I was and am still not proud of it. Ofcourse, my wife happened to look at my computer history and discover what I had done. I apologized to high heaven, we were kind of separated for a few days, and then decided to work things out. Anyhow, this happened before the last financial screw up, but I think this is what really broke the camel's back.

I have had a history of dishonesty and selfishness and am not proud of it. For the past year, I have been good and not messed up anymore. There has been tension all year, but I knew we were trying to work things out. Well, one week before Thanksgiving, she tells me that she needs space and a break frome me. It was hard since I am at a different emotional place than she is right now, and have finally realized how much I love her and want to do right by her.

It has been frustrating trying to avoid her and giver her her space while living under the same roof. I couldn't do it. I couln't leave her alone and felt I was just aggravating her more and more. I finally decided to move out so that I could give her the space she needs. She assures me she wants to work things out, but she needs time and space from me before she is ready.

It is hard. I know I have wronged her, but I will do anything to save our marriage. I am just so impatient. I talked to her about this site and mentioned Dr. Harley's ways to save marriages, but she said she is not ready and I am just pushing things on her and not giving her time or space. I am miserable and don't know what to do. Advice?"

One reply from Tall Man:

"Welcome to MB. I can totally relate with your situation.

I'm currently seperated from my wife of 15 years as well, mostly because of my LB's.

First thing I would recommed you do is back off, and let go. The more 'in her face' you are the worse it will be because she will feel disrespected. Respect her wishes for time and space. I know it's hard, really hard, I'm there too.

Next, take this as a wonderful opportunity to look at why you do some of the actions you listed that your ashamed of. Get real with youself, and start to think, not about the actions you take, but the whys behind the actions. If you love your wife like you say you do, then what permissions do you have for yourself that allow you to act in that way?

I know it doesn't feel like it, but your actually in a good place, you have an opportunity to change yourself for the better, and your wife is still in the picture.

My says she wants a divorce, and no contact from me at all, and still somehow, I'm smiling, and truthfully happy. But it's taken me some time to get here.

You will be fine, focus not on your wife, but on yourself. It's the only thing you have any control over at all. You, and only you. Make use of this time to be a better you.

- TTM"

Additional advice appreciated.

Draco,

Brace yourself for this, but......It sounds like your wife is having an affair. If it were because of your last two screwups, she would have asked you to leave back then. I believe that she is at least having an EA with someone that is meeting her needs, and she want the OM to be able to meet more of her needs without your interference. Check her cell phone, email, chat, and other records to ensure this is not the case. Has she ever talked about any male friends? Does she go out with friends without you around? Does she ever talk about a male coworker? This sounds like your problem. Don't deny that this could be the case. I denied at first, and let it develop into a PA. Your W is saying all the same things about your relationship that my WW was saying to me before I found out about her A.

The first thing you need to do is move back into your house. If she asks why, tell her it is because you are committed to your family and feel that you should live in the same house as your children. Read up on all the info on this website about plan A and meeting emotional needs. Then you need to snoop and see if there is an OM. Let us know what you find out, and get back to us for a plan.

Well, I did call her earlier today and tell her that I was moving back because I needed to be there for the kids. I told her I would stay out of her way as much as possible and that I would stay in the spare bedroom. She didn't seem too happy about this, but did not say no. It was my idea to move out in the first place.

As far as an affair, she has made it clear that there is no one else involved. I have checked her cell phone and have not seen anything suspicious, but I do not have access to her email. I did check the computer, though, and she has not logged on to email for a couple of days.

Last night she did tell me that she needed to reconnect with her younger sister and family in general. I have never kept her from her family. She admits that her focus has always been on our immediate family, and she feels she needs to find her self again. She blamed her sister for what I did, and wants to make peace with her.

She does not go out on her own very often. When she does, it is with girlfriends from work. There is one guy friend she has mentioned from work, but she thinks he is gay. I have met him once, and could not tell if he was gay or not. I met him at my wife's Christmas party, and he took a male "friend" with him. Could there be something more there? Maybe. But I don't really get that feeling. She always comes straight home from work and doesn't exhibit any other suspcious activities or tell tale signs.

I am going to move back tonight, give her her space, and see where it goes from there. I know there is still a lot I need to work on. I will focus on myself and my kids, and do what I can and what she will allow me for her.

Don't believe anything your W says for now. Verify! It sounds awfully convienent at this time and place the past has become to much to bare. It sounds like she may have invested time and emotions with someone else. I would be actively checking this.

I'll keep my eyes and ears open. I am reluctant to confront her about anything, since I don't have any evidence and she will throw it back in my face about how I am not giving her time or space.

The part that gets me is that she says she is not really ready to work things out. She wants to focus on getting her head straight and making peace with her sister. I understand that, but it's hard when you feel like the only one at present who is ready to get started on saving the marriage. Anytime I try to talk about it and how much it hurts, she throws it back that I should have thought about that before I did all the things I did.

I am moving back tonight, but beyond that, what should I do when she says she is not ready to work on us?

Heed my advice, I've walked in your shoes.



He's not gay - and she's not going out with Girlfriends from work. Sad but true. You need verification - start snooping/spying. DON'T let her know that you're suspicious - or she'll increase her level of secrecy and it'll be harder to uncover. Let her be secure in her current level of secrecy.

Investigate everything. Her statements that she wants to "Reconnect with her family" really mean "I want you to give me space so I can get more 'Other-man' fix"

Start reading and educating yourself asap on MB concepts .. plan A especially.

Move back in ASAP, don't wait. This was a huge blunder, fix it now.


Another red flag. Your mistakes/errors/misjudgements are all fresh in her mind - and will remain so. It's called justification. She's entered into an affair - and all these mistakes that you've made are fueling her resentment towards you - and in her own mind, are justifying her actions, squelching whatever guilt she might have going outside of the marriage boundry - emotionally or physically.

Has she said any of these things to you?

I love you but I'm not in love with you.
My feelings for you have changed.
I can't change the way I feel about you.
Our marriage was a over before it began.

I'm sorry you're here friend - but you're in the right place.

Though this situation does call for a cursory review for infidelity it is my experience that when posters show up on the infidelity - Gen'l Questions board with questions like these an affair is suspected subconsciously....the situation ends up as likely as you are all saying. HOWEVER, this poster initially posted on Emotional Needs and THEN came over here. His gut wasn't sending him into alert mode so there is no reason we should be sounding big alarms...yet. Infidelity may NOT be the issue here.

Dracko, don't focus on what she is going to do or not going to do to work on the marriage. Focus instead on what you need and have to do to save it. She either comes along eventually or not. Your wife won't say it but she's watching you. Your words mean nothing cause you've likely made cursory promises over the years. It's your actions she's going to judge you on.

Moving home was good. Being the best husband, individual and father you can is good.

Something to consider...keylog your own computer and set it up to send emails to your wife of all your computer activity. This will self-regulate your on-line porn problems and DEMONSTRATE to your wife that you are committed to giving it up...permanently. Box up ANY hidden porn materials in your house and throw them away.

Mr. Wondering

I'm almost positive that she is not having an affair.

Anyhow, I moved back and she of course is not that happy about it. I told her I would do my best to give her space within the house, but that I was not leaving. She said that she might have to leave, because she can't have space with me around. She basically doesn't want to be around me right now. All my past transgressions I think are fresh on her mind and she is trying to figure out what to do.

I told her I couln't force her to do anything or control her, but that I prefer she didn't leave either. I told her I was going to focus on myself and the kids, and that when she was ready we could work together on our marriage. Right now, it looks like I am the only one who will be actively trying to salvage the marriage.

I think she will come around in time and that we will be able to build a strong and loving marriage. It is hard, though, because I know it will take time and I am very impatient.

Happened to catch some of the Wife's conversation on the phone with her father. Couldn't make it all out because I was eavesdropping and was only hearing some of what the wife was telling her father. The two main things I thought I caught were:

1. Her telling her father about a conversation with her mother. Something about why does God give us these feelings? Is he testing us? She hasn't done anything yet, etc.

2. Shortly after the parts in paragraph 1. she is saying something I can't make out and then I hear her say "you would like him."

Taking all into account my heart just sank and I began to think the worst. I did confront my wife after she got off the phone with her dad about paragraph 2. She said I was guilty again of listening in on her phone conversations and not getting the whole story. She said there was nobody else, but didn't really convince as she changes the subject as to this is why she needs space. She doesn't want to go in circles, etc.

She may not be having a PA or an EA just yet. But maybe there is someone she is attracted to and thinking about. How do I approach something like that?

I think I am going to ask her about that today. Ask if there really is no PA or EA if someone has maybe captured her fancy?

Am I wrong to ask? I just read up on another thread about the 180 and Plan A. I want to implement this but have already maybe done a couple of things wrong and am not clear on it. I sent my wife flowers to work this morning and already bought her gifts for Christmas. Is this wrong in the 180. What should I be doing?

I want to give space, but also want to show that I am interested in saving our marriage. I just feel like I can't go forward working on the marriage or giving space until I know for sure no kind of affair or attraction is happening.

Hello?...Is this thing on?

Draco,

You can ask her if you want, but what will you do with the answer. If she denies an A, you still don't know anything, since denial is part of what an A is all about. If she admits to an A, you need to have a great Plan A ready to go so that you don't negatively react to what you find out.

Read up on Plan A and form a good one. Keep digging till you know the truth, whatever it may be. Don't try to "fix" her or the relationship. Just be the best H and dad you can be. You can't change her, so don't bother to try. Make changes to yourself that will make you more attractive to her.

When you find out the truth, what ever it may be, already being in Plan A will give you a head start on recovery. Find out all you can about how to act so that you don't spin your wheels trying to react. I, myself, found that a lot of the roller coaster of recovery is because we don't know what to do in response to what our S does. Get to the point where no matter what she does you can say "I know what to do now," instead of "WHAT DO I DO NOW?!!!??"

Mark

You are better off NOT asking her.

The WALL of denial can be difficult to surmount without proof

Besides...with incessant questioning she's going to be more difficult to snoop on.

Snoop...find the answer and confront only after you have obtained enough evidence to tear down the wall of denial.

You see...to her...the likely EA or PA has absolutely nothing to do with her marriage. To her...the marriage was over and this is completely separate. Telling you will only hurt you...so she thinks she protecting you by not confessing.

It's hard, I know. You thought you could look your wife in the eyes and she wouldn't flat out lie to you but if she is in an affair she will. Bank on it. Also, beating her up with questions trying to get her to tell and/or make her feel guilty is NOT an attractive way to win her back. It makes you appear desparate and needy.

Go to the "Just Found Out" infidelity Board. Click on the "For Newly Betrayed Spouses" and read it. Then click on the link in Longhorn's signature line called "Spying 101" for information on how to snoop.

Once you find the truth come back her for a plan on how to confront with the information. Just don't run off half-cocked and rageful at the first little evidence you find. It's better to have a couple of pieces of evidence before confronting to avoid the expected denials and excuses. She can not have any wiggle room to deny it.

Mr. Wondering