Hello everyone. I am new here and posted in the DV site a couple of weeks ago and only got one response so I thought I would try reposting my story here but in summary this time. I read alot here and I would extremely value some opinions from others who are not involved and might be able to see this more clearly.

Our story is very long but I will do my best to sum it up from my perspective.

Married 15 years, two children.


Y5: I had EA/PA (2 months), I separated for 3 months,ended A, H and I reunited to work on M. No counseling but "went on with our lives". Looking back now, neither one of us moved on the way he should have by addressing this A.

Y12: H withdrawals for about 6 months. Says its "work stress". One day says he has lost feelings for me due to me having walls up, pushing him away and problems with intimacy. Says something has to change or he wants to end M.Says even at that, he thinks its too far gone. I go into IC right away. H occassionally attends MC with me. H goes to IC but quits after 1 month.

Y13-14: IC helping me alot. Intimacy issues addressed, regaining ability to be closer to H, resolved personal issues from my own past. I try to meet h's needs.H feels he is unable to get rid of the hurt, forgive and move on. Says I am everything he could have wanted now but H still partially withdrawn but staying in house and trying. I continue IC regularly, slow minor improvements in M but H still says he feels the same way.Alot of affection and conversation on both sides (both of our needs) occur though.

Y15: H in military, leaves for 6 months. I try to keep up meeting needs long distance and no LB while apart. H slowly withdrawling again. Does not explain why. I stay in IC frustrated and scared but hang in there.

Y15 1/2: H returns, says he still loves me and wants the marriage to work but can't overcome hurt in the past.Says he didn't even realize he withdrew until he came home. H says he doesn't want to hurt me anymore or stay in M when he's not happy. H depressed, sleeping all the time, no urge for sex, sick alot, gained weight, anger outbursts, odd behavior. Days go by, h stays at friend's house to "think". H recieves military orders to another state and is leaving next week. H says he does not want me or kids to come with him right now, for several months. He needs space and time to process things. H says he doesn't want to quit M until he tries IC again. Says he knows its his issue and that there is nothing else I can do to help until he works on himself (H also has problems with self-esteem, experienced childhood sexual abuse issues and family problems). H says he wants to do IC hardcore for a few months while away and see where we are at. Says he understands if I can't wait for him but that he sees there is no other way to resolve this and he needs to take the risk that I may not be able to wait so that he can help himself and eventually us.

Basically, H comes to the house to see kids in the evenings and then leaves to stay at friend's house. Says being around me is harder on him because he feels bad that he can't fix this and puts pressure on him. He is very helpful in every way as long as its not intimacy related.Says he is not capable of much right now although he wants to be. I have looked for signs of an A and have come up with nothing. I have asked and was told "no". I have also not been living with him in the same state for several months so there is a possibility that there is proof that I don't know of. I trust him and would be very suprised if that there was an A but have considered the possibility. He is currently going to MC with me while he is still here and setting up the appts.The MC says I have done all I can and h is "stuck", "shutdown emotionally", "numb" and needs IC before he can be in a M. MC tries to explain to H that much of his pain is related to his past, not just me. H doesn't understand and still feels the source of pain is me not being able to give to him for many years and can't move on. Stays angry in IC and brings up incidences that happened 10,12,15 years ago that bothered him and never told me (he said he tried to tell me).

I just don't know what to do.I can't change the past. I am still trying to meet his needs although I know I am not getting anything is return. I still go to IC for me too. I have worked on myself alot trying to figure out where I went wrong in the beginning and fixed the things that were issues for him and have not repeated them.

That was two years ago. I don't know how much longer I can do this...to stand by and wait. I can already feel me distancing myself from the M for fear that he will never be able to overcome this and move on with me. I don't know if I can bear the hurt anymore. Two and a half years is a long time to put alot of effort in a M and see no progress or movement from H.I am trying to look at the fact that he is talking to me about what's bothering him at all and setting up MC appts as something in the right direction.

Someone please help me see this situation clearly. Any insights are appreciated. How can I manage the next few months alone while he is in IC? How do I know if there is any progress? How do I not let go?

He sounds EXACTLY like someone who is in an affair. I don't think you can move forward unless and until you dig it out. But this has EVERY earmark of an affair. When a spouse moves out to "think" it is ALWAYS so they can carry on an affair unimpeded.

Until you find out all the facts, there is nothing you can do.

Have you considered hiring a P.I.?

p.s. being seperated like this makes it almost impossible to do anything because seperation only contributes to the detachment. Can you rectify that situation?

I haven't really thought about a PI. Makes it hard anyway since he will be located on a military base.

Otherwise, there is no other proof of an A through cell phone bills, credit cards, nothing. He has little access to money as he has me handling all the bills and he lives off of a set amount. He has also really let himself go. Not saying it's not possible but I don't know. MC says that he is shutdown due to hurt and being unable to move on from things with me and his past. She doesn't suspect an A but I guess you never know.

Karin, I thought he was staying at a friends house?

It is very common that a WS will lie to a MC, it is an expectation. And since MOST counselors know NOTHING about infidelity it is not hard to fool one about an affair. How does the MC explain that he is using CLASSIC phrases of a wayward spouse?

Does he have a computer? I wonder if he has met someone in the military and is carrying on an affair there?

Can you call Dr. Harley on his radio show right now and tell him what you told us? Click on the link on this page to "radio show" and call the 800 #. He is on air now until 1:00 cst.

Call-in 888-606-1776

Yes, he is staying with a friend right now locally until he leaves for his new duty station. I am handling all the bills and he has a certain amount of money for his expenses while he isn't at home.

Our MC is trained in infidelity. She is very good. The statement about needing to clear his head and get away the MC says is because H has shutdown emotionally and anything at this point feels overwhelming to him. He says he's wanting to work on the M and keeps setting up appts. with the MC.

Again, I think it's unlikely he has had an A because of what I said above, but I just don't know. I haven't seen any proof. He says he's still deeply in love with me but because of past hurt and rejection, he feels like he can't be intimate because he is scared. H shows me he loves me and cares in many other ways though.

Not justifying his behavior or the possibility of an A, just trying to make sense of everything.

Is there anyone else out there that might have some more insight? Thank you in advance.

I would really appreciate any more insight/opinions from anyone out there.

Since I posted, H has been sleeping at a friend's house at night but generally stays at the house any time he is not working from morning until night spending time with the kids, doing things around the house and spending a little time with me. H says getting away at night helps give him a break (I know he is actually where he says he is).

H has has been extremely helpful thoughtful to me - always concerned if I am upset or seems unhappy. He says he is doing the best he can. We seem to do okay as long as we don't have R talk. We laugh, have fun together and are very playful. He says he is trying to make a bigger effort to have conversation since that is one of my EN even though he says its hard for him right now. It is just hard at this point to see anything intimate from him. That is really all that is missing. We have had sex about once a week (always initiated by me). It's so hurtful because all the affection and SF is just absent on his side. I feel so unattractive to him now.

This used to never be like him at all but then again I really think he might be depressed and that could be a cause. H just doesn't seem to care much anymore in life. H has been initiating and going to MC appts. with me. H says they are helpful. Sometimes the sessions are good and other times it seems like we are taking a step backward. This session today he cried alot. The MC feels H really needs IC counseling. H has committed to it on his own but he also being stationed (he's in the military) somewhere else next week. H wants the kids and I to stay at out home while he goes out there and works on himself. The MC told him today that there is no way he can be actively in our marriage until he works on himself.

We have a counseling appt. tomorrow mornign with Dr. Harley. H filled out the surveys and says he will come home from work to be on the phone even if he doesn't have alot to say.

I am having a tough time right now. I have to let him go but I just can't. This is what he says he needs right now.

karin, I think you're not getting many responses because it sounds like either your H is seriously disturbed and needs far more help than we can offer here, or else he IS having an affair and you are in denial and not seeing the signs.

I would suggest:
1) Follow MelodyLane's advice and call into the radio program. It's free.

2) Get your H into serious independent counseling with someone who knows what they are doing.

3) Do your best to get him to move back home. You can't work on a marriage when you're not there.

4) Try following Plan A for a while. You have little to lose.

Good luck.
Mulan

Thanks, Mulan for your response. I am open to any advice.
I have done or attempted to do all 4 of your suggestions so I feel happy that at least I am in the right direction. 1) We have an appt. for counseling this morning with Dr. H - it's expensive but I am sure worth it. H is willing to get on the phone. 2) H is committed to independent counseling but hasn't started yet. Been seeing a MC with me. 3) I've done my best to get him back home but he made his decision to leave and fly home every 6 weeks. It's not his choice to move since he's on military orders but it's his choice for us not to move with him at this time. We are still trying to sell our house and have school-aged kids in the middle of the school year also to consider. When H first talked to me about the problems almost 3 years ago, he opted to stay in the home and work on it. No separations. We've been working on it for this long. Not until now has he decided that separation is the last resort. He says he realizes now that its him and he needs help, says I am doing everything he's dreamed of but that he can't get over the past and doesn't know why. H says he thought he would feel different over time but realizes he needs professional help or he will lose his marriage. 4) I've basically been doing a plan A for 2 years, eliminated LB's and have worked on myself. It's been the best thing I could have done. Many relationships with my family and friends have improved and my general outlook on life has changed. I guess if my M does not end up working that not all is lost.I don't feel I am in denial if there is an A. At this point, I am very ready to hear it/discover it/whatever. I have expected an A and have considered what I would do if there was one. I don't think I would seek a D right away but try to continue working on on the M. I've looked and looked for a long time and can't find any proof. He has said things that sound as if he is in an A or was at one time, I've talked to him about it and he's denied it (Ofcourse, that is the answer I expected no matter what). He didn't seem mad that I asked either but just denied it and explained what he meant by certain things he said. As terrible as it sounds, I almost wish I would discover an A so that I can make sense of all this. I just do not know what direction to go in. He many very well have serious mental problems (my family has suspected this for many years. There is mental illness in his family's background). I honestly do not know if its that or an A - or maybe both?
The MC feels H really needs this individual counseling and that its not a matter of "want" but that he "can't" be in the marriage or any relationship for that matter at this time due to him being completely shut down and numb. H says he wants to better himself so that he CAN help US as a couple.I guess my questions at this time are:
1) Once H leaves and we separate which is a matter of days, should I do a Plan B even if I am not positive there is an A?2) How do you know when enough is enough?
3) How do I cope from day to day with such uncertainty? I almost feel like I have to go into a "safe" mode just to function. I have been hurt so much and almost cannot bear the thought of any more hurt. I want this M to work but I have to ask myself, "How much more can I handle?".

Hello,

I will just throw in my two cents and see if it makes any sense. I have a hunch your husband has never processed your sexual affair in year 5 of your marriage and this possibly destroyed the foundation of the marriage the way he perceived it. By the way why did you engage in such an affair and putting your marriage at such risk? Was this supposed to be an exit affair?

It sounds like you both buried the affair and wished it to go away. The problem seems like your husband internalized a great deal feeling great rejection from you and wondering why you never rejected the OM? He probably felt total humiliation and betrayal which has resulted in him throughout the years feeling deflated and destroyed emotionally. His self-esteem seems totally shot. Burying this affair has resulted in a type of emotional cancer for him throughout the years festering at ever slight he perceived from you. My guess is that your affair is at the heart of his illness and his fear of pain and betrayal from you.

I would suggest that you try to revisit this painful episode and deal with it once and for all. It sounds like this affair has resulted in your husband being one of the "walking wounded". You may think it was many years ago but for many many men it is never forgotten and the images are always replayed unless it is finally dealth with. Again I just speculating but it really sounds like he never processed your affair and you never really helped him in doing this which has now manifested itself with your husband scared to be hurt from you once again. Am I wrong?

Thanks Bryanp for your response. I absolutely think you have covered alot of the problem. I know that has been a problem.

The A that I had happened 10 years ago. Looking back, H and I did not deal with it at the time as we should have when we reconciled. I answered his questions and divulged everything. We took things slowly but I assumed after many years that things were okay and we no longer talked about it. H did not discover the A. I told him about it since I knew that there was no chance for us unless I was completely honest. I suggested a NC which went into effect right away - never seen, contacted or heard from the OM again. I was completely transparent.

Fast forward 7 years. When H came to me about the problems he felt we were having one of them was about the PA/EA and how he was still hurt. We discussed it again. I told him I was willing to talk about whatever he needed to. I went through a period of remorse again for what I did. I let him get angry, vent, whatever he needed. From then on I told him we could talk about it whenever he wanted to.

3 years later (today), it is still an issue he feels he cannot move on from. The MC says I should continue to be open to listening but that I should not continue to apoligize over and over again. I really can't do anything about the past but I have not and will not repeat the future. I still hear about things that I did or said 10 years ago that he says he still can't get over. Most of these things I never knew were an issue. I am open to talking or doing whatever I can to help him through this but what else can I do? The MC says it goes much deeper than this for him.

Why did I engage in the A? It was a selfish act. It was about me at the time. I loved my h dearly but I felt he did not have the time for me and gave me the attention I needed. I felt like I was starving for attention and the only purpose I served was to cook, clean and take care of children. That was no excuse for choosing the path I did by having the A, but that was what was going through my mind at the time. I wanted to feel special and that I was needed. The OM temporarily did that. And I am sure my H could have fufilled my EN too but he and I never discussed EN!!! I wished I could take it away as that was the single most worst mistake I have ever made. Not until I went into IC could I process why I did it and forgive myself. Looking back, h and I should have entered counseling right after the A ended.

Hello again,

Honestly it seems you have done everything you could. You confessed and were not caught. You have discussed it with him and answered all of his questions and you were totally open about it. You also immmediately went No Contact and never saw the OM again. You re-examined it 7 years later and went through the remorse all over again and again you were willing to discuss it. It sounds like you did really pretty much all you could do except for the both of you to go into counseling immediately afterwards.

I really believe that many men would have accepted this and worked on recovery in the marriage expecially after all of the positive things you have been willing to do. Unfortunately there are a lot of men who are so traumatized by their wife's cheating that they are simply unable to process this and get by it and move on to recovery. I do not think really anything more than you can do. I think this event has slowly emotionally paralyzed him over the long run and has now resulted in him being mentally ill. I think you can hope for the best but prepare for the worst. I think you should be prepared that he has now emotionally checked out of the marriage and is content to be a fence-sitter.

I am going to suggest something that may sound very radical but also be a type of shock therapy for him to get his compass back. I would inform him that you plan to seek legal help and move toward ending the marriage. You will start to see what has to be done for you to be single with children. Right now he is allowed to go back and forth emotionally and you are enabling him to continue in this behavior. I think there is a strong possiblity that this will knock him off the fence. If not then he never had any intention of coming back to the marriage so it is time to plan your future with or without him. What do you think?

Wow, thank you so much Bryanp for your insight and advice.

I have sort of already done and in the process of doing what you have suggested. We have a plan set in place and an expectation of what we want to happen over the next few months. H is going to his new duty station and h wants to get into counseling by himself (his idea). H says he wants to do this for 3-4 months intensely and see where he's at.We have worked on the M together without separating before and it didn't work. It's to the point that we are draining what is left. We are both trying to perserve what we have and stop it from draining right now.

This is what I am doing:

I am happy he wants to do counseling for both himself and the marriage. However, I have told him what I need in this also. I am literally "on hold", or so I feel like now. I told him that the ball is in his court and I am taking a back seat in the M for awhile. I have assured him I love him and want to do whatever it takes to work on our M though. I told him if he wants to continue being in this M and wants to work toward our goal while he is gone, then I need to have frequent communication, he needs to come home regularly and uphold our other agreements with finances, the children and housing arrangements. I won't be calling him all of time "checking" on anything or to see progress either. There is no "dating" or doing anything either one of us would not approve of the other doing. The goal of the separation is to reunite. I need him to innitiate this and "fight for the M", if you will. I have been doing the fighting for both of us for too long. I need to know I am worth it. He agrees with all of it. I very calmly brought up a LSA a week ago and it scared him. He later suggested it also but then backed out and never filed anything. H knows I have consulted with an attorney.Nothing has been filed but just for information. He also seems to be very clear from MC that I am coming toward to end of my rope. That is what got him to initate individual counseling. I don't know what the future will hold but I made it clear what I need in order to keep working on the M. He agrees with all of it. I guess that is all I can do. I honestly do not know which way this will go but I bet I will have a good idea within the next month depending on his communication with me.

Besides the financial aspect, I am virtually a single parent anyway. I've been a military spouse for 15 years and have had many separations. You are right that H has already "emotionally checked out" so that kind of support has been gone for some time. For the most part, I have raised our children alone and am independent. I also don't have any family or close friends where we live now so I don't depend on anyone for help. Not a good thing, but just the way it is. I have always handled all the finances (and still am while he is gone) so I think the only adjustment would be a decrease of $ and ofcourse, losing the love of my life if this doesn't work out.

I am completely distraught by all this, cry everyday and barely sleep but I am doing the best I can. I know I will make it either way but the road ahead seems to look either way. I just feel so neglected, rejected and confused right now. I am still doing the best I can at meeting h's EN. He is able to accept and welcome what I give but just cannot give back yet.

We had our appt. with Dr. H this morning. He talked to my H for a very long time. H didn't share with me what all they discussed but H said he was amazed how much Dr. H could understand and read him without even knowing him. Dr. H told me there is alot of hope for the M but that we seemed to have failed 3 years ago to make a solid plan on working toward a happy marriage. We were trying to meet EN and eliminate LB and thought that's all we needed to do. It didn't work. He told me it is still possible to save it even with us separating if we make that plan. It was very suprising to me because before the appt. time H told me he was willing to listen in the counseling session but he just felt burnt out from talking since we had MC the day before and would not say anything. Well, he ended up talking so much to Dr. H that I we ran out of time before Dr. H could finish talking with me - that's a good thing! Dr. H wanted to talk with H again before he leaves but I don't know whether that will happen. From what I gathered from Dr. H, he does not suspect an A but rather alot of LB over the years on both sides and a need for IC and a marriage building plan.

Another thing that concerns me is a few months before he talked to me about the problems he had with me, he had an argument with his parents over ongoing issues he had with them and cut all ties. He hasn't seen them or spoke to them in 4 years. I know he was hurt and still deeply suffering from that loss. He seems to have that "all or nothing" way of thinking about marriage too. But I guess that's not my issue, right?

Hello Karin,

You are doing everything right. It is a good sign that he was so eager to talk with Dr. H.. I believe his estrangement from his parents is a huge problem for the both of you not just him. If he is unable to have any type of relationship with his parents then it is not surprising that he is unable to have a healthy relationship with his spouse. They all go hand in hand. He sounds clinically depressed and emotionally ill. I am pleased he will be getting individual therapy.

I come from a family that has had issues with suicide and not to alarm you but I am worried about your husband. He is severly depressed. He sees a failure in his relationship with his parents and now with his spouse and family. He perceives rejection and disrespect everywhere around him and from the people he most surely values the most. I would like to suggest that you or he talk to a physician about getting him on anti-depressants as soon as possible. Depression is a silent killer and it makes even the most mundane tasks seem overwhelming at times.

Again your reasoning and attitude seems right on the mark. I think if you can treat the depression first then everything else will have a good chance to fall into place. If the depression is not deal with then it will only negatively progress more and make any recovery in the marriage that more difficult to overcome.

Bryanp -

Yes, I have wondered myself about h being suicidal.He has let himself go. At times, I even have to remind him about hygiene. he has gained 25 pounds in 2 months.We ate lunch at a restaurant the other day and when he started talking about some things he discussed in counseling, he broke down and cried for about 30 minutes in the restaraunt. He often stares at the TV and zones out for hours at a time. This past week before MC, H wanted to talk to the MC alone (big step for him). She agreed but only if she could share any info with me, if needed. She does not feel like H is suicidal but she insisted that he get IC and possibly medication is almost necessary at this point. She also did not feel there was another person involved or an A now or in the past. She mentioned my EA/PA 10 years ago is still eating at him but that most of his pain comes from him beating himself up.

H left this morning so this starts our first day of separation.We have had a rough past month. There have been a few LB's on my side - not intential but I would respond to alot of his with a LB. His LB's are definently AO and DJ's.I have really had to keep my boundaries in place (and true test for me but I succeeded). I am not sure what you would call my LB's but I am guilty of trying to "teach" or "show him the way". MC says its probably because I have been in IC for so long. I am mad at myself for doing that. Even to the point of questioning if this is my fault for causing the separation. I have truly tried to make the last few days as upbeat, peaceful and "normal" as possible. Regardless of what happens, I want H's last thoughts of home to be a welcoming and loving place to be. I have given him his space, met his EN as best as I can and when he's reached out for me, accepted what he could give with open arms. He decided to sleep at our home last night instead of at the friend's house. He also innitiated sleeping in the bed with me also. I know this is not easy on him at all to leave. He says he doesn't want this but feels this is the only way and wants to do IC so he CAN work on the M. I don't agree that separating is the best thing but it is HIS choice and I can't force him to stay.

I really do not know what will happen and what to do from here. I think the uncertainty is just killing me. We have been working on these marriage problems for 3 years now and I know its to the point that something needs to change either way. Like you said, H may well indeed be fence-sitting. I am not even sure if he realizes he is though. I guess since I can't do anything about what he does or how he feels ofcourse, I can try to help get things going down the right path by really taking a backseat. I will be here for him if he wants to talk - R stuff or anything else but really distance myself and try to "go on with life". Obviously, what I have been doing is not working. I have made a promise to myself to not bring up R talk at all and remain as neutral possible when he calls. I don't think R talk would benefit either one of us at this point until he can get into IC.

I am really scared that what if this is the end? What if when he leaves he gets comfortable and doesn't want to come back? How do I cope with this day to day separation for the next few months and not lose my mind? I know I will want to call him and will get urges to do so but I shouldn't. I am also so worried about h and this depression (if that's what it is). He really does not have any close friends and no family members at all yet he is out on his own trying to tackle this.

These past two days since H and I have separated have been so hard for me. I have had minimal contact with him except when he has instigated conversation. (Afterall, he is the one leaving).H sent me a text shortly after leaving thanking for making the last few at home "comfortable" for him. Then got another text asking me who sings this particular song on the radio (???) and then the next day he called early in the morning telling me he had been in a car accident. Bad weather and lost control of the vehicle. He is okay but damage to the car. He was shoke up and wanted to talk. Asked about money. H sent another text later on re: our DD, I responded back but also told him and I really did not feel like talking to to his question but also said I really didn't feel like talking much tonight and I was sorry (missing him too much). He replied back with "okay" and haven't heard from him.

Since there is no A, I guess I am sort of doing a modified plan A and B since it appears I have a fence-sitter - taking a sudden backseat in the M yet being a very thoughtful and neutral W if H does want to talk. I think that because I have pursued this R for the past 3 years and tried to hold both of our weight, that this new territory will be unknown to him. I am in hopes that he will realize what he is missing, but ofcourse I have no control over what he does. If he does have a sudden wake up call though, I am not going to be quick to jump right in. I really need him to prove and show me that he wants this M to work and will do whatever it takes to make that happen. I guess what I need is consistent action, not just words.

It is just scary in the mean time. This is going to be a long road either way. I am doing my best to just "live life" but I am so down. I sway back and forth with thoughts of whether I should move on or just keep hanging in there to see what happens with his IC. MC tells me as hard as it is to try to hang in there for awhile.

I know there is not very many posters out there dealing with a S in this type of situation, but to those of you that have had to just "let your spouse go" in hopes that they will realize what they are missing - how do you handle daily life with all this heart ache?