This will be long, In late Oct after our last "spat" where I became distant for a few days I went to apologize to W and she said she didnt think she wanted to be married anymore. I took it as a wake up call and started changes, W noticed but didnt seem to care, At times I had been critical, demeaning, distant along w/ independent behavior (drinking w/ guys on wkds) I quit drinking, started attending church learned to control my emotions listen better and be a better father I wasnt a bad father but yelled alot.
Nothing was good enough - W went to Pastor(MC) to discuss situation and he was against D thought we could work on things - She told me and I accpeted when it came time said she wanted her freedom, We are still living together she slept on couch for several weeks but has been sleeping in our bed again. Had suspected at leat EA W denies says she is just friends - But lied about OM age, the fact that he is a coworker etc. Found his #'s on her cell phone she has since removed them they talked almost daily and sometimes several times a day in Nov.
Confided in MIL about suspicions - W said her mom and sis bith asked her if OM was issue - She has withdrawn from them - I started attending church as I hit my lowest point and was born again, W and kids church along w/ inlaws.
MIL and SIL along with Pastor suggest we work at M - W says she thinks she needs freedom to find herself not sure she wants to be W anymore.
Had offered to S or D but she just stays and I am not leaving - Realized I cant give those to her that easily and will fight for my M. Confronted again with cell phone details in early Dec but still denies then over the weekend W said she had to go to work on Sat @ 10:30am then called at 12:30pm and said she was on her way home, Called back 5min later and said she had to go back - Through all my snooping I found out alot about OM and drove past his house confronted W still denies says if I trust her than she should be able to have friends - I do my best not to get angry jealous and say I can accept it - She comes home 3 hrs later we talk she puts her ring back on and said we can try to work things out, Sun before church she was distant again and we talked but couldn't get anything out - Later in the day after talking more she said "You Win" that she would be W in all ways and mother but that I cannot have her heart - Says she doesnt want to be hurt again or love or be loved but that she is not going to seek D and that she is tired of pressure from church, parents and me to work on this.
To allay my fears or confirm the A I ordered a semen detection kit online as I feel if I can prove the A that our M might have a chance - I can t help but feel badly for her and can forgive no matter what, Its been hard to detach from M and know I should but I feel if I let her continue it will be harder to come back, She has had alot of stress at work and I feel if the A is allowed to continue it will make it harder. Told her lst night that even though I had offered S or D that I couldnt go thru on it and that if and when shes ready she could come back and I would not hold it against her and that no matter what I will always be there for her. She said thanks that means alot.
What do I think and/or do - Have read so much but cant detach - Read divorcebusting, divorceremedy, how to fall in love, MB website, the case against divorce etc

Purchase and read "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Willard Harley, founder of this site. It will give you an amazing insight to how marraiges become vulnerable and all about the dynamics of an affair.

You need to learn about Exposure, exposing the A to her parents, the other man's wife (OMW) their bosses at work, and face the reality that one of them will have to transfer or leave their job, as NO CONTACT is vital in you two rekindling your marriage.

Read all you can, from this website, until you get the book. You need to try to determine what her EN's (emotional needs) are, especially the ones the OM is meeting, which are typically conversation and admiration.

If she maintains they are "just friends", then purchase "NOT JUST FRIENDS", by Janice Spring. It will give her insight as to how all the minutes she spends talking or spending time and/or thoughts about the OM are stealing from her marriage.

Stick around and keep posting. There's a tremendous amount of help and experience around here, all based on the Marriage Builder's philosophy, so get it, read it, study it, and keep asking for help along the way.

Best wishes,
SD

Thank you I am waiting for Dr. Harleys book I spoke with him on the air on mon. He said as long as we are still living together that is a good sign, Although I did tell MIL and FIL and they have been supportive although they havent confronted er yet I think b/c of Christmas but MIL has said that she wanted to have a day w/ W soon to discuss many things - Have seen my changes, W seems to be fencesitting or cake eating and has come around a little bit ie. sleeping in our bed, Now saying that fine I win she wont leave, file with be a W in all ways except giving back her love.
I figure if I can prove totally and finally with semen test that I have a fighting chance and will cross the exposing to bosses soon. I have tried to tell our Pastor (MC) but he seems to not believe that and that her heart is hardened now I know it has hardened because I had been a jerk alot in our M but I want to change and fix and grow with her.
I will forgive - The funny thing is lasty night she came home from a hard day at work and told them she is becoming burnt out now I wonder if that is all there is to it maybe the A is on its last legs and she is finding it difficult to cope or he has ended b/c of fencesitting - I talked w/ her at lunch to see how things were today and told her if she wanted to quit that we could make it - The money isnt worht her happiness - Is this positive

Yes, very...could be that the A is wobbling on it's last legs.

Find the thread on the "carrot and the stick of Plan A" and read all about making personal changes in yourself that will benefit the marriage. Plan A, in part is all about personal change and growth, leaving behaviours behind that were damaging to what you brought to the marriage as a human being.

Maybe I can convince someone to bump it up in this forum. You will find it to be helpful, I'm sure.

Best wishes,
SD

Sounds to me like she is coming around if she is in the same house, same bed, and is saying what she is.

Plan A is the starting place, and you can read all about it here. It includes showing her what a great husband you can be, with no angry outbursts or disrespectful judgements.

Agreed on her looking at the marriage. You need to keep Plan Aing. Dont lsiten to the fog babble. And make sure you get good, competent, pro-marriage counseling (not all MCs are pro-marriage!).

Hang tight man. It is a bumpy ride...but worth it.

Plan A Link is in my signature below...

Thank you all do I stop M and R talk or do I bring it up on some level? Do I confront if semen test is positive? I know if it is positive that I am going to employer and inlaws again as well as SIL who she skipped out on Sat cleaning the church and I know her sister was upset.
I know and she has said she sees changes but she still doubts them to be forever,She is also a person who internalizes everything something I reading on a website called coping.org suggests a "survival mask" where she will push people away out of fear of being hurt also saw other symptoms in her that this behavior causes. I originally went there to learn how to detach but also saw other things I did controlling/manipulative but have been working hard to change those as well. I said I cannot promise that I wont drink again in my life but that I would never drink and drive (2nd DWI in Feb) get my license back after Christmas and dont ever plan on going there again - Only one night drinking in almost 6 wks and that was after confronting her about A and feeling like I blew everything with her again - But she never left our bed and actually the next night was one of the only times in the last almost 3 months that I saw her shed any tears over this.
Also I am positive on some level b/c she said I Give Up you win my parents win and the church wins - Aat Sunday morning service she went to the altar at open prayer which she had not done since I was saved on Nov. 26th and I have been going 3X a week and spending time in the Bible - Trying to develop Positive Attitude but it is so hard when you were once able to reach someone and now you cant so I resort to talking about R/M alot.
I have rad many books on this - How to fall in love, Stay in Love,The case against Divorce, Divorce Remedy, DivorceBusting, It was also suggested by Pastor MC that we read a book called "The Ministry of Marriage" a Christian book that talks about marriage and how to overcome the obstacles that brought us here and to learn to grow our Love and nt just the feeling Love, MIL mentioned W seems to be backsliding and that on many levels she cannot believe that for me to come back to God that our marriage could fail - My W said she reads the Bible everyday and that things are in God's hands but she is resisting help from Pastor, We saw an outside MC - Iasked my W to help pick a C so we both had a say but told her my criteria was one who was pro marriage as my feelings are if the M caused this problem then we should try to solve this through the M
Thanks Again everyone - I was on Divorcebusting website but didnt seem to get as much help

Usually at first the WS doesn't want a lot of marriage/relationship talk.

One thing that is sometimes helpful is spending 15 hours a week doing fun things together - remember like when you were dating?

Continue your great changes. Putting the marriage back on track often takes longer than we would like.

First off, DG...just a semantics thing. But please break your paragraphs down into less sentences. It makes it easier to read.


Nope. Not yet. You gotta figure out what is going on first.


Never tell her HOW you got your info. If she is in adultery, she knows it. You dont have to convince her. All you have to say is "I know you are having sex with that guy."


All good. Again, dont offer up how you know. Just tell them you have irrefutable evidence.


This is good. She sees the changes. And she will see the that they are permanent only as time goes by.


MelodyLane can help you with the drinking issue!


look at the bottom of my post. Read what is expected by God in regards to you and yoru wife. It might be helpful!

In the weird days between D=day and becoming certain that NC is in place, it's a good idea to minimize relation talks, but try to "normalize" your relationship. This does not mean you cannot enforce boundaries, and you certainly don't put yourself in a position to be "doormatted", allowing her to run over you at will.

It's a bit like walking on eggshells, but have your priorities straight with your boundaries, continue Plan A, fill her LB$ whenever possible, and show her by ACTIONS you are serious about wanting her back in the marriage.

Keep learning and growing...you are doing great!

SD

Thank you all again I will try to break down my paragraphs it is nice to finally be getting the help I have been seeking.
I spent so much time on divrocebusting.com but felt I had to allow everything that is happening to take its course and just be a doormat so to speak.
I should have stayed here when I first found this site less than a week after she said she didnt think she wanted to be married.
At first my changes took effect and the hurdles kept coming faster and higher until she said she didnt think she wanted to or could be a wife and helpmeet.
I really was not an alcoholic but weekend drinker although it has caused me problems and I should have seen those before this came to the way it had.

Also as far as my religion I was born Catholic but have been non practicing for years living my life for vanity, pride and the flesh so when I hit the low point I turned to where I am now - Wife thought it was a ploy but even before all this my kids were asking why Dad didnt have to go to church and had been feeling a need for some time to develop a more personal relationship w/ him.

I truly feel lucky she is still here but hate the not really knowing about the poss. A and her making me feel dumb,sneaky and jealous hurts me - I really never was jealous of her until the last few years b/c she started spending more time away at work (she had to change jobs 3X in 5yrs) but up until this I still felt relatively safe until she dropped the bomb and I believe what I believe b/c I felt I always knew her and see the way she has also withdrawn from family and in some ways kids although she is still a good mother and I hope I am wrong but don't believe I am.

MM - Thank you for the study it was insightful. I am certainly going to try to do my part and hopefully my wife will see - I wish I could get her to read your link but I have a feeling she would think its just something else I am asking her to read to stay in marriage.
Using her faith - She has been Born Again Baptist all her life and I am recently saved - She thinks its all a ploy but I had never been to rock bottom before and I needed to find Him again to help me find my way in the dark.

Thanks Again

DG,

So, just print it out and leave it out on the bedside table on your side. She'll pick it up!!

I don't know about that I have tried leaving other things out but she seems to be in the "fog" She says she has never snooped on me and that it is such a lack of trust I showed her by snooping.
Also she is having a hard time trusting that the changes I am making are permanent in my mind - She feels I will get things back and throw things by the wayside.

I just turned 43 y/o and finally woke up that hanging out with the guys every Fri and Sat isnt the way to a happy M.
Actually started realizing it before all this but.....

It was a habit and even though most times I wasnt enjoying it - they were hard to break - Now I want to break those habits as well as my anger, control and manipulation I used to mask my insecurities of feeling that had no control in life in general - Instead of trusting it to God I was trying to do his work, Kind of like now and actually my MIL said that I have to let some of these things go b/c I cannot do this by myself and to trust in Him and in His time.

Leave it in the bathroom, and conveniently clean out all other reading material.

More than 1 way to skin a cat.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Skin a cat???? Neak - are you from Texas?

One other thing, I ordered the semen test through check mate to see if suspected EA is a PA as well.
Already confronted W with cell phone #'s - Lied to
Did a US Search and found out other lies
Found out it is a coworker
Checked cell phone bill call details found out she talked at least daily for the month of Nov Exposed to In laws but they are sittinng on it right now.
Confronted W again and lost my ammo - She changed password on cell billing site.
Stupid Me
Found her at his house last Sat - Called her cell asked her to come outside - said they were friends - I didnt get angry or abusive left her there she came home 3hrs later.

Sat Eve. Supposedly working on our M but she is still not sure she wants to be W - Puts her ring back on

Sun. Tells me I win her parents win, church wins she will be a W in all sense except cant give her love.

Today joined MB discussion group - Ordered semen detection test to test undergarnments worn Sat.

If positive test I know I have to expose to all but do I confront and if so do I tell her about test.

Not from Texas, but I hang out with bad company. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

dg63 - Mortaman already answered about the PA semen test above.