Ok wen through emotional needs questionaire and found that W right now needs Admiration, Communication then Domestic support/family committment - Affection she is really not open to at all in fact when I try she withdraws more often than not.
Financial Support isnt a real big need b/c she has a decent job although the other night when we were talking about how I Won - I brought up that I really didnt win anything and if we were going to stay status quo with me pursuing her withdrawing then I felt that we should split everything evenly b/c I actually dont have that much money left after I pay mortgage, util. car ins. cable - W pays for groceries, trash (every 2months), newspaper, water every(3 months) and kids instruments - - W used to pay for babysitter but she thinks kids are fine alone although I dont agree.

Great advice, SD! Just so you know, I GOT this idea from Steve Harley. It was SH who counseled one of our board members to do this very thing. And more recently, I heard Dr. Harley on the radio giving the same advice to a man. He told a betrayed H to contact the OM and make it as troublesome as possible for the affair!

In my own case, my H's affair ENDED the second I contacted and confronted the OW.

How can you spend 15 hours a week together when she works so much and pretty much trys to avoid me in any way

I have been staying home all the time and trying to be around family but feel so ignored.
She works over 50 - 55 hrs/week cleans the church on Sat but doesnt want me there so she can talk with SIL.
I go to in laws on Sundays when after church but finds ways to avoid me.
During the week if I get an hour or so a night to make a diff. - Tried asking her to lunch too busy
Seems like she screens her calls when I call cant even talk to her - When we talk its all about her if I even try to talk of my day to change convo a little bit she seems indifferent.
We go to church on Wed nights but that is with kids in car MIL and SIL at church.
My conversation I guess is stale maybe we arent so compatible - Sorry to sound helpless.

dg, she won't draw to you until her affair is over. And the affair won't be over until you bust it up via exposure. Just look at the affair like you would crack in relation to a crack addict. As long as she is smoking the crack, she won't be interested in your marriage. So the goal has to be to make it so uncomfortable to smoke crack that she gives it up.

I really just want to scream right now! How can you love someone so much and seem to hate them or shall I say their total disregard for you at times.
Even when I was a jerk for a few days I never made her feel like she is me right now - She talks everything about I or me - Even with stuff for the family like I dont even exist.

Pardon me but who the ****** has been watching our kids when she spends so much damn time at her job or whatever shes doing.
Our D11 (alto sax and she is awesome) had a Christmas concert tonight and W starts talking w IL's about how "she" wants to get her Soprano sax like I dont even exist.
My facial expressions say way too much what I am thinking she had to leave for the bathroom before the finale but I thought she was looking around the auditorium all night and remembered her "coworker/friend" has a kid that goes to my D's school thought maybe he was there.

I have to confront but I am so angry I could spit bullets and I dont have anyone to stand by me right now to do this.
I have to talk w/ MIL again, I want to tell her sister the real reason why she didnt help clean the church on Sat. as she was with her friend!

I need to be able to scream - This is the most angry I have been in months maybe this is what I have to do to detach and stop my clinging - I keep looking for the carrot from her and I know I have to stop - Just feel like throwing in the towel and telling her she Wins but that isnt really what I want.

This is going to be one sorry Christmas other than the reason we actually celebrate it and have to keep my mind there.

Probably frustrated missed church last night and will probably miss tomorrow nite to so maybe on some level I am going through a withdrawl as I have been able to soak myself in the Word - I know I have to keep my eye on the big prize and after reading MM posts about H's and W's I see how no man could compare to Jesus Christ.

How hard it is to love her like Christ loved the church when she is draining my love for her in big chunks right now.

I don't get any credit whatsoever for being here like a servant whenever she feels like strolling in from work.
I know I caused this myself with my license being taken away and Boy when I get it back I am going to do things with the kids while she is "working" and make her feel what she is missing.

Also tried talking w/ her tonight not about R/M but that we should do more family things - Like movie night, games etc and really sick of takeout b/c she hasn't grocery shopped in over a week too busy - Oh yeah she could have gone after work and before she cleaned the church on Sat - Oh wait she was "busy". Told her D and I could start dinner so we would have more time together as a family and hopefully her and I although I guess right now I dont even care to spend time w/ her. You know I really hate to say this but on some level I really wished that checkmate test was positive so I could have something to back up this crap Ive been fed.
Sometimes feel like such a damn chump - How can someone do this to another human being not even a spouse but the father of her children.

You know she said she would put her ring back on last Sat. and Sun said I WIN - But as soon Tues it was off and I didnt ask anything she said she left it in her desk until tonight since she is going to be off for seven whole days I asked nicely if she forgot it in her desk again she said No I was going to put it on on the way home when you called to see where I was b/c it was getting close to D's concert.
Then she was just going to leave it in her unlocked car - I grabbed it didnt ask her to put it on but handed it to her and she only slid it halfway up her finger.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH.

Sorry I had to vent - Its been building - I know I have to expose this mess like a tsunami and soon - Hopefully I can make it til Wed. when I am supposed to get my license back.

Thanks All

I vented last night but still feel a little angry but hopefully that will pass. W is on vacation today until next Fri. and for the most part I will be around.
Although when she told me that she was off today she said it was mainly office people and out of curiousity I drove by suspected OM this morning and he was home, He supposedly works in production which wasnt supposed to be off.

What do I do - Do I need to push this confrontation to the forefront? I wanted to wait until I had my license 12/27 - The only reason I can drive by his house is it is in someway on my way to work for which I can drive.

Would face to face be best or do you think I can accomplish anything by phone?
I was thinking of telling him that I do not know what you are intentions are but it seems since you have been in the picture things havent helped I know there are issues in our M and I am trying to work on them.

When I asked about who you were she told me several different things one is that she could never love anyone like she loved me and that she wsn't going to be hurt again, And when I kept digging and asking her what was going on she said she wasn't even attracted to you in that way.
I just want you to know that I am trying to repair our M and keep our family together and would hope that you would not contact or see her anymore, I feel with her work and family life she has enough on her plate right now.

I know W is going Christmas shopping today and to my S's Christmas party @ 2:30pm - He gets on bus @ 8:30AM so there would be almost 6hrs of unaccounted time - At least I could know she was at work and even though they would see each other there wouldn't be much opportunity to be alone that I know of.

As far as her ring goes I want to see what happens - After posting last night about how she put it back on but only had it halfway on - During the night I had an opportunity to slip it off her finger so I am hoping she will think she lost it or is this another bad idea?

I am going crazy right now - I feel so childish and degraded and can't seem to think straight.

Ok - I went out with the company truck , Went to OM's house to see if W would show up she didnt - Followed him to school to drop off his kid, followed him to Wal mart and Best Buy - No sign of W.

Boss has been good to me through out this whole thing had to come back to work.
Called my Mom and finally told her everything, I had been avoiding my family b/c I didnt think they would understand and they have had difficulties w/ my W over the years.

Didn't expect support at all and didnt get angry with her opinion it is just that I cant carry this inside anymore and withdraw like W has.

I am now writing letter to Pastor MC an giving him all details of which I know - I thought of confronting OM but even though I can drive for work purposes didnt want to seem like I was stalking.

Don't know what my IL's intentions are just yet and will not ruin their Christmas - But will have to tell them that I at somepoint next week am going to ask that they disclose b/c the longer this festers the harder to heal.

I am also going to tell her sister why she didnt help clean church on Sat and where she was.

I just cant keep going on like this and keeping it all bottled up - Any advice would be great - Dont know if plan A will work at all with W she will not let me meet anything right now and sees me as this pathetic clinger so I am thinking that I am going to have to say something - I am tired of being babysitter w/ no phone calls and dependent on rides but feeling shut out in every other way.

Just sent the email to Pastor(MC) Along with the link for newly betrayed spouses - Waiting to hear from him.

Didn't really want to tell my mother it's just that I havent done any shopping for anyone besides kids and not sure I will, Mother wasn't very supportive and felt she needed to run my W down any chance she got - Don't get me wrong W has faults but we all do and her and my mother worked in the same dept at the company we all worked for.

Mother and I have had our differences too and I know I shouldn't have ignored my family as I have since this started but have had a hard time dealing with everything and knew my mother would take shots.

I am at such a miserable place the last 36 hrs or so and I cant concentrate on anything.

Sorry you are so miserable, dg. I just want to emphasize again the goal of exposure, it is to squeeze the affair. So if the exposure is KEPT SECRET, it defeats the purpose. Your W needs to be told that she is exposed to her parents, your parents, the pastor, her sister, etc. And hopefully these folks will convey their disappointment to her personally. They help no one by keeping this to themselves.

Are you following the OM for the purpose of seeing if he is meeting your W?

Yes I was this morning - Although I gave W impression I was getting a 1/2 day so we could shop for kids.
Although in some way it was a ruse, To see if I could force their hand at meeting before Christmas - Figured if they both had the day off they would try to meet somwhere.

Should I tell W immediately today that I exposed? As much as I want h er to know its in the open I dont want to ruin others Christmas and feel she may withdraw herself from her family even more if she knows that they know.

Also am questioniing whether W is staying til after Christmas and has something up her sleeve for after or if she really is torn - I know Plan A hasn't gone that well other than me changing - Because I still persue she withdraws - I tak about R/M every other day it seems and as I said in earlier post I feel I am looking for a carrot instead of the other way around.

Smart thinking!! That was a perfect plan, dg, and I like your strategy.


Now would be a good time to tell her since it will put pressure on her at a time when she is going to see them all.


If she is torn, she will stay this way as long as the affair is ongoing. That is why you need to do everything in your power to ruin her affair. And that means getting it OUT IN THE OPEN and talking about it with all your family members in front of her. It should be an OPEN SUBJECT, not a SECRET. Remove the secrecy, dg!!

Thanks Melody - Nothing came of it though - Tried replying several times but must have written too much b/c so much has happened.

When I came in last nite wasnt going to say anything but then changed my mind and asked her to have NC w/ OM and to find another job.
She said dont have to worry about NC as he hasn't spoken to her since Sat and No she wouldn't find another job b/c pay was too good.

Asked about seeing a pro M MC and told her how I want to work towards rebuilding/repairing the staicness is killing everything.
Talked about a lot of times in our life and how Xmas is really tough.

Left and came downstairs - She came down 1/2 hr later and said she would and would be very "truthful" I asked what she meant - She said my controlling things - I was thinking to myself well what would they think of her"friendship"
Also handed me a pkg that came it was Dr Harleys book for being on the radio - How to survive an affair

We talked again before bed and I asked if she thought I was trying to control this she said not intentionally that it was just my instinct or something like that.
She asked if I think this is a quick fix - I said No but it seems like I have to push to bring her to the table b/c if I didnt she would just go on in this static day to day life.

Asked if she could see how I feel - Not feeling that not only she may not Love me but feeling like she has no respect she replied Yes but in some way insinuated that is how she felt at times more or less welcome to the club - I said well mine only lasted a few days at a time hers almost 2 1/2 months - She did say though that she didnt think she couldnt love again but more that she wasnt letting those feelings in right now.

She said she thinks every time we make progress I start talking R/M and want it fixed right away - I only feel like you talk about your work day and peripheral stuff and arent letting me in to your true thoughts - And that anytime I ask to have lunch with her or go out on a date away from house and kids she doesnt want to.

Also said that when I call her she seems to rush me off the phone at work but how come she could talk with suspected OM and others but not me. No answer

Then I guess I really strayed from Plan A - Brought up OM and said I felt like maybe some of the old me should come back and for me to go kick his A** - I said I was thinking of speaking w/ him next week anyway when I get license back.

She said "Are you sure you didnt do it a week early" He hasnt spoken to her and avoids her - I asked well if it was b/c I showed up there Sat why did he continue to talk to her for 2 more hours before she came home - No answer

Then probably big DJ and said he looked like a loser anyway.

W also accused me of really not knowing her if I thought she couldn't have friend and keep it that way that I dont trust her in anyway or never have. I said I did trust her until it seemed everything became secretive. Her response was that the more I pushed her away the more she closed up.

The final straw was after our last "spat" after shutting her out for a few days she came to the point where she is.

I guess in some ways I can see it but....... Some of me says BS - The week before she was still telling me she loved me and our intimacy was mutually satisfying and to go to this existence has been nite/day.

Just went upstairs and now she is really POed at our conversation - Must have really screwed up

How can she be in no contact if she if going to continue to work with him? That makes no sense.

She cannot be "friends" with the OM because she is not his friend. They have gone beyond that stage. If she is just his "friend" then you can ALL be friends and she can invite him over for dinner. But, she knows that would be silly.

It is also disrespectful to you, as her husband, to place this "friendship" over her marriage. Her unwillingness to give up a mere "friendship" at the expense of her marriage is very telling. It reflects either a much deeper relationship than a mere "friendship" or a complete lack of regard for her marriage, or both. Can you imagine her being so adamant about placing a "friendship" with a female above her marriage?

She just needs to understand that there is no going back and there is only room for TWO people in your marriage, not THREE. Just state this declaritively instead of trying to reason with her. You can't reason with a WS.

It was a huge mistake to tell her you would be visiting the OM. Now she will forewarn him and he will be ready for you. I wish you wouldn't have done that.


I don't understand. How did you screw up? The only screw up I see here is that you forewarned her about visiting the OM and didn't tell her she is exposed. The goal is not to avoid ticking her off at all cost, but to save your marriage.

What is your next step?

1/2 of me really wants to believe her when she says its just a friend but then all I read tells me not to.

We just had another talk and she feels I depress her every time I talk about R/M - She also said one thing that bothered her about lst nights convo was when I said maybe we should go our seperate ways on Xmas.

She feels on some level that she based her life on me and doing things for me that she forgoed friendships and now that she had one I am making her stop it.

I asked her why his M's failed - She said 1st W just left him - 2nd W drained him financially and "slept around"
I said well then he should understand why it would seem inapproriate to have a "friendship" w/ her and that I never really accused her that she was in a PA and on some level I could see maybe not even an EA but that how she was vulnerable at that him meeting some needs emotionally could escalate

I asked about spending time together lunches, dates away from house and kids to reconnect - She said she would think about it.

I said all these small things have contributed to the breakdown we are at and that I feel if we can get past things we could salvage this - She said she felt hopleless and I asked her to grab onto my hope b/c I have alot.

She has been using the screw me once shame on me........
Once bitten twice shy........
Trust issue, Says she doesnt want to rely on someone to make her happy and as I said before she has had a hard time letting people into her inner self throughout all the time I have known her - It took me a long time to earn her trust and she feels that she gave me her all and I let her down and hurt her.

In some ways I am seeing that I am reaching her but she says I throw her into depression when I talk R/M.

I found this MC who seems like he would be a good fit, I spoke w/ him last month but W wasn't too interested she said she wanted time and space to sort things out and that I wasn't giving her that - I said b/c even when I did whtether it was 2 days or a week nothing changed and she had said she wasnt even thinking about it which hurt b/c how can you not think about something this big.

Anyway this MC's ad reads:

Coaching individuals and couples in practical tactics for overcoming distress, building successful intimacy and avoiding destructive divorce.
Problems such as criticism, defensiveness,hurt, frustration, anger,resentment, neglect, silence,contempt, lying,lonliness,infidelity,distrust, Inlaws,money, sex,children,time.
Goalssuch as preserving and improving relationships, safety, friendship, affection,intimacy,love.
Dealing with past difficultiesconstructively now and in the future.
Cognitive-behavioral therapy tactics for reactive negative memory,thought, emotion,language and behavior - He is a Ph D

I also asked her up until the last 3 yrs if she felt I trusted her completely that I never accused her or thought she would cheat - That the more secretive she became the more I felt I had to pry - She had said that my behaviors especially the last few years forced her internalize things while still being a W saying she loved me, expressing she loved me, SF had been real good and mutually satisfying she had been able to let go of herself especially the last few years - Dont get me wrong we for the most part had a good S life but the last few years were the best when we had time or she wasnt tired or I was acting independently (drinking w/ the guys) - I would never initiate anything when drinking b/c she is a tea totaler

What is the purpose of all this talk? Does she know she has been exposed?

I was waiting to hear back from Pastor, Concerning his thoughts and haven't been able to get in touch w/ inlaws
Didnt want to cause any loss of allies by not informing them that I want to tell W I exposed her.

Is it just the fog or can she be telling me the truth?
I really want to believe her b/c that would show my trust but if I am wrong then I am not doing any good and if she is telling the truth then it could push her so far away that she may never come back.

I now at least have got her to the table of a MC of my choice which I feel is a huge step