Talk to the Harley's. Right after D-day, I had some of the MB articles laying around, and WH picked one up and read it (in the bathroom - he's not a reader). It was one of the articles about how the WS feels, on the home page here.

WH told me that it described EXACTLY how he felt. So I asked if he would talk to the Harley's. Now here is where I made my big mistake - I gave WH the number and asked him to make an appointment (DUMB, DUMB, DUMB). I figured that if WH wanted to save the marriage, he would make the effort to call. He never did. Now I wish that I had made the appointment myself.

The trouble with some regular counselors is that they know very little about infidelity. It is extremely easy for the WS to gaslight them. We've seen it over and over here.

I know how you feel, My W wants nothing to do w/ saving M says she tried before and now I want to save it she says now she has to work on herself- Well Duh.

I really have to blame myself on many levels but I wont accept "friendship" while our M was washing down drain.
I only call it friendship b/c thats what she wants me to believe - OK I believe you (wink) sorry I am so sarcastic.

Im not even going to ask her if she made an appt. - I can say I am done but I am sure that since we are under the same roof that I will probably bring things up - I just have to watch LB's and hope my love doesnt die in the process - Sometimes I feel it is but I am thinkingabout it and imagining a time when things will be better.

I know I have allies in W's family but she is so damn headstrong right now - I cant reach her she probably wouldn't even grab a rope from me if she was drowning.

All I can do is try to rebuild me, trust the Lord and my allies who believe we can be healed.

I also know that my kids have seen my changes and they will know that I have tried to keep us together, With my W's attitude right now - I feel like she's doing everything to push me over the edge - I havent been fighting the right fight as much as I could although she does know how much I believe I want to do everything except sell my soul.

Deep down I love her, But sometimes I can't stand her right now - I was in cousel group @church tonight and the group leader said it best and I am sure I read it here or somewhere.

Our S's and families are our greatest source of happiness as well as our greatest source of frustration - So if I can hold on to that then maybe when I try to keep throwing the ropes she wil grab one.

If not then I know I will be worth something to someone someday - I hate that I keep falling over myself and baring myself only to be cast aside like yesterdays garbage.

Especially when I hear how hard she tried and hoped I would wake up and now that I have she doesnt want anything to do w/ me.

I dont know if I said it earlier but my MIL said that being a new christian that its like birthing pain

Another thing is now I am the one the kids are looking to for their faith, I told them that we are not going to be late for church anymore since I got my license back.

If W wants to end M which right now I do not believe for a minute then she will have to say she doesnt want us to stay together - I will never agree to protect her that way.

I would die for her but I wouldnt tell my kids a lie and you know the talk w/ my daughter on the way home from church was great - We talked world politics and shes 11.

I am just gonna try to be the best me I can be - I have so many people believing in our M I cant help but believe it will work out - Far cry from yesterday - Hopefully detaching will last b/c I know what I was doing wasn't working and should have tried harder awhile ago.

I have a hypothetical question, Just saying if I was to believe that OM is/was just a friend.

We both had/have issues w/ each other in our M - When W said she didnt think she wanted to be married - Then sees I am trying to change but asks for time and space to sort through her issues although almost every other facet of her life goes on except R.

In the beginning I even offered her a D if that wouold make her happy - She didnt take it - Although she has not been proactive in seeking help for herself other than the Pastor and when he said we should work on things she said ok - Then a few days later said she wanted freedom.

Now here we are almost 3 months and W just wants things as she wants them - How does someone just keep waiting w/o trying to move one way or the other.

I know its only hypothetical b/c I believe that OM is/was a contributor to our issues but if she wants me to believe that it was innocent how should she expect me to wait while she does nothing about finding out why she feels the way she does.

Could she just be staying b/c of outside pressure (family, church, kids and on some level b/c I asked) or could she really be torn?

Sorry just had some thoughts and probably rambled - Oh and MIL called this morning for W - SIL is out of town til PM and MIL had to open church for cleaning - I will know this PM if they were able to talk - MIL was hoping to be able to do that today.

Accept that it is an affair. Your wife is doing nothing because she is following the WS script. That is what they usually do - NOTHING.

She feels the way she feels because she is having an affair. Don't try to figure it out, or you will go crazy.

Why cares why she is staying? You just want to keep your family together for now. She will still be a WS as long as there is contact. Once the A is over and NC is in place and she gets through withdrawal, you will have an opportunity to build a NEW marriage together.

I know - Im just asking questions so I dont fall into trap of R/M talk w/ W.

Also when kids and I got home from church last night, W was in bed said she worked 13 hrs - She would talk to kids but when I tried to say anything she seemed like she didnt want to talk so I went online here.

This morning when MIL called to see when W was coming I laid there like I didnt hear phone so W would have to answer.

After I got up to go get Starbucks fix now that I can drive and W said "Sorry I wasnt talkative last night" I said it was ok - She smiled somewhat when I said I was going for coffee and asked me "Isnt it nice to drive again whenever you want"

Then we talked about free piano (it fell through) so she is a little depressed and we talked a little about her day and job in general - I listened w/o trying to say too much.

Then I remembered about detaching - I ended the conversation by saying nicely that I had to go get some coffee.

Hopefully I can continue this - I know its hard

Well MIL called from church to see how yesterday went w/ W and told her how things went - She wanted to just touch base w/ me - She still hopes to talk w/ W but D11 is with W - I knew I should have done something to keep D home but didnt want W to get suspicious.

Also came clean w/ MIL about a failure I had on Xmas eve and that I came clean in group @church last night.

I turned back on Xmas eve to a few drinks b/c I couldnt take the pain of the holiday - Nobody asked me if I wanted one I asked - My family knows I stopped drinking and going back to church - My mother called me a hypocrite when I told her I was going to W's church b/c of past comments I had made, She also thinks its a ploy to attract W back.

It seems the closer I get to God, My W falls further and that is what else my MIL is going to talk w/ W about.

But I feel so much better not keeping anything from MIL b/c if she feels I am dishonest in anyway then I may lose support - W knew I slipped w/ drinking and if she told MIL before I did then that would have made me look bad.

Are you attending AA?

Not AA but a program through church called Reformers Unanimous - It is a Christian faith based program for overcoming strongholds - I had #'s of people I could have contacted but felt it was only one slip b/c of the pain I was feeling at that moment - 1st Xmas where W and I were not happy and w/ each other emotionally.

Also I started reading Surviving an Affair last Sat but put it under my night stand and hadnt picked it up til today and when I opened the page where I left off found a note from W.

It reads - I am sorry I found this - Even after all I have said to you - If you dont trust me then how can I trust you.

"I had #'s of people I could have contacted but felt it was only one slip b/c of the pain I was feeling at that moment - 1st Xmas where W and I were not happy and w/ each other emotionally."

Hopefully this group believes in a Higher Power..........

They do, I spoke at length last night and they reassured me to contact them at anytime - I have befriended someone who is also struggling w/ similiar issues. We talked at great length about things

He had problems w/ alcohol, attitudes and trying to control situations and other things that I wont go into but he stayed in his M - Said its been hard for him as well but that he is not going anywhere and he said he had a feeling last week that he should have called me b/c we exchanged #'s 2 fridays ago and I missed last Fri night - I had been strong and resolute when I was attending regularly as well as spending time in Bible and keeping a prayer journal which kept my mind focused instead of lamenting.

"I had been strong and resolute when I was attending regularly"

I suggest you get into an AA 12-Step program also.

Actually I spoke w/ an old friend who has been struggling w/ a crack addiction and he wanted us to attend meetings so I will contact him again. Its also that I need these other people in my life through church to help me learn to have a close personal relationship and create new friendships where I will not be tempted to rely on my flesh and heart.

Concerning the note I found in SAA - Is this the "fog" also?

Yes. Ignore it.

Your church group is very important, continue going. Add a 12-Step program.

How should I handle W - When MIL speaks w/ her W feels that I should trust what she has told me concerning OM and that if I want her to continue giving me a chance that I should tell everyone I exposed to that I was mistaken.

How do I act/react when she gets confronted and I am sure there will be anger.

Hopefully MIL has had a chance to talk w/ W - She left around 10:00AM - MIL called me @ 11:00 AM but it usually doesnt take this long to clean church so I am hopeful that this talk is happening - Just had a long talk w/ my Mom about things which went better than I expected.

Just trying to keep lines of communication open w/ people whatever their positions are - Hopefully this will help me detach and work on Plan A and keep me from my thoughts.

Hopefully I'll know how to handle situation w/ W if she comes home angry - Was just gonna say Im sorry you are angry and I couldnt tell them that I was wrong b/c you have said I interfere too much as it is.

Do not tell anyone you were mistaken. Your WW has had at least an EA and possibly a PA. She shouldn't be trusted because she did not protect your marriage, and her choices have hurt your M. She doesn't realize this now because she is in the fog. Of course she will be angry, but it only hurts your M to shield her from the consequences of her actions. You don't learn any lessons if your actions don't have consequences. You are doing the right thing and eventually she will come around (as long as you make positive changes in yourself, meet her ENs, and don't LB anymore).

Jim
I know that how do I avoid LB's when/if she shows anger w/ her mom talking w/ her?

Do I say I am sorry you are angry? Try to not say anything not defend myself? Avoid talking til anger passes?

Or do I say something like I was only trying to protect our M from falling apart further?

I just want to meet EN's she'll let me right now but if I feel she wants me to say something I might say wrong thing.

Well MIL just called me and said it didnt go good - W told her it was nice that she believed me instead of her D.

Said W is really angry and to be prepared for when she comes home.

W - told her to leave her alone and stay away

MIL sounded shaken up and I am feeling terrible