This is an important trick. Repeat what the WW says to you, so they understand you know how they feel. Example:

WW: I am so pissed off at you for telling everyone. I hate you!

You (calmly): I understand you are angry. I am sorry you feel that way.

WW: Can't you understand that he was just a friend? You are such a jealous a-hole.

You: I know you think I'm just being jealous.

Just let WW know you understand how they are feeling and that you are listening to them, but don't apologize for your actions and don't LB.

Ok, MIL called and sounded quite upset said the talk didnt go well at all - W said it was nice that they believed me over their D - Told MIL to leave her alone.

W came home and she wasnt angry, I tried to act like I didnt know MIL called and we were talking about house issues and other things - When W said she had a fight w/ her M - Said they believed me and that she now has nobody and that she is going to shut then out.

I asked her not to shut them out b/c they love her and the fact that they knew how long she wanted a better M and now she wanted out around the same time she started "friendship"

I didnt apologize but did tell W that maybe in the past I put conditions on my love for her - But now after all this there are no more conditions to my love for her and if she wants to be angry be angry at me.

She didnt yell, scream, ask me to leave or say she wanted out of M - Just said now she has noone to talk to.

I said you can talk to me - I will listen to anything/everything you have to say - Asked her not to shut me out.

She said I cant make any promises - She was crying and wanted to be left alone.

Also told her that even though she may not like the things I have done that I did them out of my love for her and that I told her of all the things I did.

That through all this I have been honest w/ her - That I wanted to build new M - Not get back the one we had.

Said that IL's told me how W had always hoped I would wake up and our M could be good and for it to go away like it has was a shock to everyone.

Do I leave her in her lonliness - What do I do for her?

It does hurt me to see her like this even w/ my pain.
Are there any positives to this?

Has anyone been through this with exposure?

Well W is talking on phone w/ MIL so I hope they are working things out between them - I really hate that she feels like they are against her as a person/daughter - Only that they are against the "friendship" and the fact that she had confided in them over the years.

I am hopeful that things are going well, She looks terrible right now - But on some level I see the person I lost in some ways - One of only a handful of times over the last few months

She's going through some inner turmoil right now. The WS is pissed that no one is on their side, the W still loves and wants to communicate with her mother. Just think of it as two different personalities fighting for the same body. It is a good thing that she is pissed at her MIL because it means exposure is working. She's running out of excuses and justifications for her behavior.

Just wanted to encourage you to be strong regarding the fact that this "friendship" is inappropriate. From reading all the posts, it seems it is unknown if it is an EA or a PA. My FWH had an EA with an old High School girlfriend. It took him months to understand that things he said to her in his e-mails were highly inappropriate. He stopped the e-mails and relationship completely within 5 days of me finding and reading a group of them saved on his computer.

He was able to acknowledge at that time that the relationship was not appropriate because he had been hiding his interactions with her from me. That was enough to get him to end the relationship.

But it really took months of going round and round with him about the stuff he was saying to her in those correspondences that I found and read. He would say that he was simply trying to be "literary" and that he was playing with words. In one of them, he had in a "literary" fashion, told her that he did not want a romantic relationship with her. I told him that by even raising the possibility of a romantic relationship, that he was pointing out the possibility of one. Something like "please don't throw me into the briar patch."

To me it was obvious, but he could not and would not acknowledge it for months. He does now. But even now, he still claims that he thought he was setting parameters around the relationship for her. UGGGGHHHH.

Anyway, WSs sometimes just don't want to acknowledge that their behavior is wayward. That is why exposure is so useful when they are having trouble ending contact.

Just go about the business of your life, being the best, most self-actualized person that you can be. Do you have hobbies? Are there some projects around the house that need your expert touch?? What do you do as an activity in general that helps show off what an interesting and accomplished guy you are? Some of the things that you may do to show you in your best light, may have some side benefits to her that aren't too smothering. "While I was tacking up that crown molding in the kitchen, I put water on to boil. Here is a cup of that tea I know you like"...you say to her as you walk by her, set down the tea and move on to your next activity such as straightening out your tool area.

New Year's eve and New Year's day are such great days to put your best foot forward without looking obvious. These are days when many people turn over a new leaf and make resolutions to change behavior for the better. Today and tomorrow are your chance to shine. Improve yourself for the sake of yourself. You will always have "you"-- make the most of that "you" for your own sake. You've had some rough days. Try to do some things that make you feel good about you.
Regards,
Lake

Happy New Year to all,
Thank you for all your help, We had meeting w/ Pastor after church and W said in car after - She is beyond mad she is POed beyond words.

Pastor told her that even if as she says it was nothing the appearance it gave was not right especially a married woman.

Started quoting scripture concerming M - And that the wedge that keeps driving further between us is the work of Satan.

W said after we met w/Pastor that I would never get her heart again b/c of the malicious thing I did w/ telling everyone.

Pastor said she has to stop being so cold b/c it will teach our children that its ok to live in their future R's like they are taught at home.

MIL said to W yesterday b/c of my salvation that W cannot D me b/c she would be excommunicated and W says she feels trapped and wishes she was dead - Says she made a mess of everything but still stands that everything was innocent.

I on some level feel so sorry for her and wish that we werent going thru this - Pastor told W that she needs to "get close" to me again to soften her heart.

She was defiant in some ways and she was the one who originally sought the advice of this Pastor and now she seems to be so defiant - She thought b/c we had an unequally yoked M and that I had caused such distress at times that they would allow D - But even before I was saved they said they wouldn't and now that I am a "new christian" it is against Gods will.

I fear for her and remember what Dr. Harley said of WS's how some even think of suicide - Although she says she cant/wont do that just her saying she wishes she was dead scares me - We are staying together but at what cost emotionally to each of ourselves.

And how can we go on when one of us seems to hate the other can it get better or will she hang on to this - I am so willing to let go of my feelings even though it will be hard to trust just to get her bacl =k on some level.

She says she will be a W and "submit" but I think she is taking that too literally as I dont believe she should be some slave and I dont believe the Bible interpretation is what she is saying.

Got to go for now - Were taking the kids out and spending New Years Eve as a family of 4 - Instead of the way we have spent it for so many years - Drinking

Thanks Again All

So far, so good. Is she willing to have no contact with the other man?

Usually they are very furious after exposure, but get over it fairly quickly.

W says there is no contact but... She is unwilling to quit her job.
She says us staying together is the right thing to do, While we were out w/ kids last night we went for a drive after go karts and drove past achurch closer to our home and she pointed out that where I am thinking of going.

I asked if that would solve everything - She said not really as it owuld look like she is running away.

Says sge feels like a hypocrite w/ her christianity but didnt associate anything w/OM - More of were told not gossip but she does, told not swear but she does - I mean cmon - How long can one person hold something like the OM in and know that people know and not want to purge themself.

Pastor asked us to "get closer" w/o saying what he really meant - W says its her "responsibility", We ML and she was so emotionless and even cried - Yo know part of me feels like she is like that b/c she feels like shes cheating on OM.

I dont know whether to believe or not whether they are talking - I now it is/ was has been hard for them to meet could it be withdrawal, guilt or are her feelings for me too far gone.

Yo know I said to her if its the right thing to do staying married - Shouldnt we do things the right way - The kids see more than she realizes and what are we teaching them w/ lack of closeness - I mean she used to mention how my way of dealing w/ anger etc gave her a bad taste and she didnt want the kids to grow up like that. Although I am/was not like that all the time.

I have always been a sensitive guy, Sometimes too sensitive and other than yelling - I rarely ever spanked my kids.
They just thought I was strict, This Alien stuff is really getting me down w/ her

Also how do I Plan A when she says she is staying b/c its right and do the things our Pastor says we should do w/o making her issues deeper.
Since she is staying b/c its right - Do I ask her to find a new job?
W told Pator that she was there @OM's house about a new job woking for him cleaning houses - Ok but how does that explain talking w/ him by phone at least 25 out of 3o days in Nov sometimes twice a day and not only during working hours but once @12:30AM after one of our R/M talks

Who cares why she is staying. My WW stayed with me because she liked the standard of living we had and didn't want to be single and broke. Eventually if you work a good plan A, they will be with you for the right reasons.

You need to continue to pressure her to get another job. Don't LB, but don't ignore the problem and just let it go away. If she is truly recovering, she will eventually see your need for it and find another job. But you always run the risk of the A starting up again as long as she works with the guy.

Don't sweat your WW's rationalizations about her relationship w/ OM. Everytime she says that, let your pastor know that you don't buy it and that doesn't fit in with her pattern of behavior that includes calling OM all hours of the day.

I know its good she is staying but to hear her say she wishes she was dead really bothers me, This depression I see her in really gets to me.
She also says she doesnt want to go to church as much as she has, Even though in the past she was going when I wasnt.

She said on Sat. when she was talking w/ MIL that MIL believed also that it wasnt what it seemed but yestyerday in Pastors office she said MIL didnt believe her.

I said to W that everyone cares for her and wants to see her happy again, W doesnt want to feel happy.

Pastor told her to stop blocking the good things out of her life, That the negative is the work of the devil - W wants to quote scripture at h er convenience but when MIL, Pastor or I bring things up she doesnt want to hear anything.

W woke up around 8:30am and was in funk, And I didn't know how to respond tried being playful like I used to but no response.
She went back to sleep and I came down to read here and spend some time in the Bible - Just went upstairs and talked w/ W about loan offer we got as we need to put a roof on, finis furnace and D needs braces.
She didnt answer anything I said - Just wants to live in silence right now.

Before I left room I sat in front of her and said I dont want to sound like a hypocrite - But I want to pray that God works in her to alleviate her internal feelings and to help her overcome her hurdles - I kissed her on her forehead and left.

I only said hypocrite b/c at times it feels so foreign to be this new person I have become but as Pastor said I have to be the spiritual head and I struggle w/ how to minister to my family when it's all new to me.

When I was in cousel group on Fri nite I spoke at length w/ a guy who is going through M problems also and he said how hard it was for him but that it is something we as H's need to do.

If she is staying b/c its right then we need to be a family and not 2 individulas w/ children - As Pastor said when we wed we became one flesh but it seems so far that we have to go.

Ok - So another day and here we are again, W wants to put on act in front of IL's but barely gives me time of day other than that.
Finally got her to lok at something on www.coping.org and showed her some thing that reminded me of her and told her of my things that I still need help with, She really is still POed about exposing and still maintains innocence.

Although I think on some level we may have reached a common ground to start from - With the things she read and saw in herself and the fact that I discussed some of my things she told me she would either call original C we both saw or another Christian Counseling center she mentioned in Nov.

I asked if she would mind talking w/ Agape' - They are non denominational but I figured they have to be pro M?

The mission statement reads:Agape is committed to a philosophy of Christian counseling which integrates Biblical truth with the healing process, having a goal to help each person become whole and achieve his or her emotional and spiritual maturity

dg,
I agree with the above quote, but this takes time, I believe. From your description of your wife's state the C sounds like a good start. She is in the "Withdrawal" state as Harley puts it.

What you need to do is to figure out what EN the OM was meeting for her and work on that.

Have you filled out the EN questionare together?

Work on improving those EN day by day and focus on spending time with her alone. I know this can be hard to do w/ church, family, work, etc. Stay away from the R/M talk except for a couple times each week (or only during C).

I have tried and I deserve MB 2x4 b/c I am now in Plan H!
HE!! - W has just killed me and I let my old self out and let my taker run rampant.
She said she has been giving me chances but it has all been smoke and mirrors - She wont even have the decency to say that OM is part of the equation.

Thought it was step in right direction w/ Agape C and she read some of the book Pastor asked us to and 2nd chapter deals w/ how to apply the Bible to M - Concerning doctrine, application and will - And right now she says her will to be free is greater than her will to work on M.

I totally messed everything up and there is no going back - She said she is running and has been running for some time.

She says I am a mean person and I guess on some level after last night I am - I cant deal w/ the lying and she has lied to me aas well as herself and many people for a long time.

Not that I was ever better than W - But the lying started even before we were married and people told me but I felt that I could and wouldnt be like everyone else - Well I guess I was wrong and we are all going to lose now especially the kids - I am not going to seek D but when she files I will give it to her - As far as protectin myself there isnt much to protect - We will lose our house, I will most probably have to go bankrupt, She will probably get majority of custody.

After last night I cannot even feel like I can talk w/ IL's or church and will have to find a new church b/c I really screwed up - The trust between us has eroded so far and when I brought up issues of phone records - She had the gall to say that she didnt talk to him two specific times when she was guarding her phone like it was gold.

Also tried to tell me that she had to talk to him at work as much as she did b/c of work and that his phone was supplied by work - I checked and found out a long time ago that it is his own plan - Everything I bring up she lies through her teeth and the fact that she denies and shuts me out like I dont even exist is so frustrating that I totally fell into the trap and now unless there is a miracle we cannot ever go forward.

Thanks for everything and I guess I didnt work on me as hard as I could and I hope everyone finds peace in their situations - Sorry to have taken so much of all your time,
I doubt I will be back, Good bye

If anyone reads this - I know I may have said I might not be back - I was wondering what thoughts anyone may have on seperation - My sanity is taking a beating and I do not believe I can properly Plan A while living in an atmosphere that this has become.

I know there is more to think about than just myself but I am not doing my W, kids, extended families or myself any good as I have been doing - I try but I cannot detach from things in order to truly become who I need to be and to even think of attracting my W back to M.

I feel if I can take control of this situation that I can work on me - Maybe she will be able to see that I am worth coming back to - Right now I dont even feel worthy of myself.

Please help any advice even "tough love" would be appreciated - I dont really have anywhere else to turn.

dg,

I'll try and get you some help. Just keep sticking with the program. No LBs!!!

Can we get a recap please? It would help

Recap - 10/29/06 after our last fight, After stewing for a few days as usual I attempted apology. W said she didnt tink she wanted to be married. Listed things about me she didnt like - I attempted changes, more hurdles.

Shortly thereafter checked cell phone found a home # and cell # - W denies anything makes up stories.

W sought Pastor MC for guidance but didnt tell her what she wanted to hear - Said we could save our M - Action plan in place - W comes home says she wants freedom.

I have offered S or D several times W doesnt do anything says she needs to work on self before M - Doesnt do anything to work on self any time I ask - She says she doesnt even think about it.

I find salvation and going to church w/ W, kids and IL's - W sorry she asked for Pastors help - Fights any attempt to repair M

Dec cell bill - Found that W talked w/ OM almost daily in Nov - Can only track #'s dialed out his #'s appear frequently - 90 mins of talk time just on outgoing calls - Cant track #'s of incoming calls - Found after lies that he is a coworker.

Exposed to IL's then another lie saying she had to work on a Sat - Found her OM's house - Confronted her w/o anger - Left her there - She came home more than 2 1/2 hrs later.

Puts ring back on says we can work on R/M but still stalemate, Exposed to Pastor still denies no confrontation w/ IL's until past Sat. - W and MIL talk W gets angry.

Go to church on Sun Pastor doesnt want to just talk w/ me anymore - W and I meet w/ him she says she cant give heart but that staying married "is right thing to do" - Pastor suggests we try to "get closer" b/c we have been apart - W cries.

I being in the house and not leaving, Cannot detach w/o R/M talks - Any improvements I have made dont matter - Bottle myself up only to mess things up - Angry that she cant even see that "friendship" caused more than needed to be added to already stressed M.

Called early AM after getting to work to apologize but feel that she is already gone and purposely trying to drive me to the point where I leave as at times especially the last few years instead of discussing things rationally I would resort to threatening D - b/c I felt she being selfish and spending more time @ job.

Had always trusted W although she has had a bad habit of lying distorting truth etc to protect herself - No tletting people close - Wondering why she doesnt have close friends says she based her life on my happiness but it was never enough.

Hope I touched everything - W says freedom seems the best option right now