You need to get to counseling. You need to get on ADs. You can't fix her, you can only fix you. Get with the MB program. Part of plan A is changing the things in you that led to the breakdown of your marriage. My problems were Angry Outbursts and Disrespectful Judgments as well. Why would she decide to come back? What has changed? Just leave her alone for now, and work on yourself. You would be surprised to see the changes in her when you start making more in you.

Im beginning to believe that instead of Plan A - I have actually been in Plan D - Destruction mode and for any good step I have taken - I let myself out of my cage b/c of anger and frustration.

Havent owned my feelings - Even if I get into IC these things seem so ingrained.

W is mad that I talk w/ MIL and said that how could she trust me with her thoughts and fears when I betray her.

Plus the last 2 meltdowns have not been pretty on my part at all - I feel she will only be honest w/ C about things she can control and will never get the help she needs.

She says things like my issues are deeper than our R - Trust, fear of people getting close. I feel I have betrayed her.

Also I am starting to think that I may want my freedom - Freedom from all this and the unhealthiness we bring to each other.

Mentioned that how we have lived has caused us to be codependent as well as independent if that makes any sense.

I apologized this morning but apologies are only as good as the accpetance and I believe she will have a real tough time accpeting them.

Outgrain those feelings. They aren't health no matter who you are in a relationship with. Part of Plan A is making yourself better so if things don't work out, you don't make the same mistakes in future relationships. You are strong enough to make these changes. Stop making excuses for yourself. If you make these changes, your WW will notice. She's waiting for you to change, but she doesn't trust that you will.

I just got off the phone w/ a C from my EAP program and although I jumped around quite a bit, I was as truthful as I could be.
She spoke w/ me for over an hour on the phone and has given me a referral for a local IC that I can call after she sets up billing. I am entitled to 5 sessions at no charge to me and I also have an appt today at 1:30pm to speak w/ an atty. through the EAP program to discuss my options.

The C from EAP was quite familiar with Dr.Harley and I mentioned that I have read a couple of his books and that I am an active participant on this site.

C also feels what all have been telling me here of the suspected EA - I am going to find out what I can do b/c right now I do feel that I may need to leave b/c W is adamant about not leaving - My state right now only seems to allow me to focus on things I have no control over and I feel I would be better to step back and truly make progress in my own ways to try and own my feelings and emotions.

DO NOT LEAVE THAT HOUSE.

So many here told me that and I did it anyway. Luckily, I was able to get back in and then WW left with our kids. You may not feel it, but being in that house keeps you in a position of strength.

Just Do It

I feel so weak and powerless here, I dont feel I am helping myself right now and just causing more fallout, distrust and added stress to an already complicated place I find all of us in.

I have never felt this alone - Posting here helps and I wish I would have contacted EAP long ago - I am thinking now all I have said and done could have been avoided had I not tried to focus on the M but rather myself.

I just got off the phone w/ IC and am looking forward to this, I am able to get to see her Mon. @ 2:30pm - I am so glad that I didnt have to wait long

dg,

The things that you want to happen(wife to care, work, etc.) won't probably for a long time. As long as you create this "hostile" environment you will never get there. Besides, what is the worst thing you can imagine happening? YOUR WIFE LEAVING WITH YOUR KIDS TO OM. THIS WILL HAPPEN IF YOU KEEP HEADING DOWN THIS PATH. So chin up, be optimistic, she is still there and today is the beginning of the rest of your MARRIAGE. Each day is a new day and a chance to start over. Take that step today. Start working on your self and get any help you need to do that. But please, until you can get the AD and IC

NO..................LB.......

I know what everyone is saying, My impatience is a big hurdle - I am even impatient to now wishing meeting w/ IC was today - Would it be ok to try and just stay away tonight - I feel if I can get away tonight I will be able to avoid and LB's until Mon.

Well spoke w/ atty and didnt tell me much I didnt know, W received a pkg from her EAP as well - I threw it away after looking at it. It had how to use EAP as well as things to think about when thinking of divorce.

W came home from cleaning church and we talked I said I called EAP and made appt for IC and spoke w/ atty.
She mentioned she talked w/ EAP also and Agape C was part of her network which I hope is good.

Although when I asked her whether she asked about D or not she said No - Which I know is a lie again.

Suggested that maybe it would benefit each having an IC and maybe looking at MC as same time b/c of all the things associated w/ D - That if it was just the 2 of us then it would be more cut and dried.

But mentioned all I have heard, read and seen that it just isnt about us 2 and even the kids - That forever we will cross paths and extended families will also hurt maybe not as much as the 2 or 4 of us.

We talked of MSA and uncontested, Fault based D's even trial S but trial S would be costly b/c of trying to maintain house - She asked about MSA what if we rectify things where do we go - I said we tear it up but that it would still prove costly - Losing the house etc - Both of us sat and stared and of course I did all the talking.

I asked if she could share things she discussed w/ her IC if she was comfortable and that I would do same - She said she may - I said to her that I want to listen and wouldnt share anything she told me as a way to earn her trust.

Asked about the possibility of each going to IC's and possibly woking w/ MC as well - She said she would ask her IC what she thought about it - I am hopeful b/c its Agape' and they combine psycology as well as Biblical approach and the woman she will be seeing is at least what is says on website deals w/ MC as well.

I thought I read someones thread where they each had IC's and one spouses IC also was their MC - Can anyone shed light if it worked for them?

I also asked if she would mind if I spent the night away tonight - So that we would be able to stay away from bad talks - I just feel the weekends are getting tougher as we have too much time.

I said all the secrecy w/ things have led me to believe that she may have a hidden agenda - That I truly do not want an S or D and only brought it up b/c it gave me a feeling of knowing where we are rather than really wanting one.

Ok - Now I went back to Agape site and the woman that W said she was going to see isnt listed at all so now I am wondering what the heck to think - Lied about her EAP pkg and now about IC.

Could she be planning something?

dg...man, my heart goes out to you. You are in so much pain. So much, in fact that it is clouding your rational thinking IMHO. I do think it would be helpful for you to talk to you C about getting on AD's, to help you calm down and see things more clearly.

From your first post to your last you have been driven by your heart, your emotions, your feelings You are in a constant state of reaction, rather than actions you are taking of your own initiative. Therein lies the problem.

You continue to try to deal rationally with a person who lives in an irrational state. You are trying to reason with the unreasonable. Just stop it.

You need to grow, as an individual, and take control of your life. You have become so dependent on living in HER chaos. Instead, you should be creating your own calm.

Try these things for one week...

1. Don't allow yourself to react to anything your WW says or does. Live your life independently of hers, while maintaining a Plan A platform.

2. Do something for you. Join a gym and work out, volunteer somewhere, or devote each night to doing something positive and fun with the kids.

3. Don't utter a word about your relationship or marriage. Not one. Don't question her actions or her words. Don't let her engage you in relationship talks, and don't initiate them.

4. Go ahead with counseling as planned, but discuss nothing with your WW about the visits.

5. Don't snoop this week at all. Quit obsessing over everything.

6. Dig down deep within yourself and find the strength to emotionally detach from your WW. Depend on her for nothing. Be completely self sufficient, including meals, laundry, housework, kids, everything.

7. Eliminate ALL lovebusters from your life.

I don't know if you realize it but in your interactions with your WW, your words are filled with lovebusters, and they serve no purpose but to drive her further away. EXAMPLE: "I said all the secrecy w/ things have led me to believe that she may have a hidden agenda". Why tell her that? Keep your thoughts to yourself. It's one more instance of you trying to make sense of her nonsense.

Try those things for one week. See if she's not attracted back to you a bit. See if she doesn't soften up some. If I'm wrong about all this, you can tell me I told you so 100 times. I just think the full court press you're putting her through is pushing her further away every day.

Thoughts from anyone else on these suggestions???

SD

Read and Listen to the above post. Need to slow down. Get a grip of the emotions. If you are not careful - you will drive her right into the OM's arms. You need to be the light for her. Dont allow the OM to be her hero and refuge from the chaos.

You know Ido know what I am doing and it hasnt helped - I should have remained w/ first C - Should have contacted EAP before I didnt realize I had 5 free sessions.

This afternoons talk was better than most - She seems scared also which is good, Her C called and she cannot get in til the 18th and now she feels she cant wait.

I asked if she would mind if I stay out of the house tonight - I figure if I can get away I can stop talks at least until I can get to C Mon @ 2:30pm.

I have tried to be around her too much and that actually has done either of us any good - It makes me obsess more and her uncomfortable.

My facial and body expressions give way too much insight into me.

Now when she wants help she has to wait - Also she said about MSA - "what happens if we file and then are able to rectify"

I went out to dinner w/ friends and I can see my obsession they are getting tired of me talking about the same things all the time - I cant even seem to have fun and it is so hard to laugh.

Shattered I will try what you suggest and I will try to give an honest effort instead of the half baked ways I have.

Shattered I will try what you suggest and I will try to give an honest effort instead of the half baked ways I have.

No one will be prouder of you for such an effort than you!

And all of us here will be pulling for you! As Lary the Cable Guy says..."Git er Done!"

SD

The snooping is the hardest thing I feel I have to do and it hurts me the most, In the beginning I was trying to have fun w/ the kids but as time went on I tried to bring her into it and that led to where we are.

I have never felt so alone, Nobody but the people here seem to understand the anguish and pain that goes with this territory - I did feel somewhat better after talking w/ EAP C today - I told her of things I did and said but also of W's ways and suspicions of OM and after our conversation she saw that W is "fogged"

Kids see some things but as W and I talked today I asked if things go south do you think kids will be blindsided b/c we have spent so much time lately together.

I know it's hard. I know it's all ugly. I know it's all very painful. I've been there. If you follow the directives I gave you above, it will be all about you and YOUR personal growth. You have to be 100% in charge of yourself to make any impact on saving your marriage, and frankly, you are not there...yet.

I am not trying to be mean an/or critical, because I know how hard it is to gather yourself to meet this challenge head on. But the gathering of yourself is the first and most important part of Plan A. Full responsibility for you and your actions. The directive above are merely an exercise in you getting you under control, so you can move forward. Got it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes I do, Tonight I was offered a place to sleep by a friend but didnt feel comfortable b/c he has to work in the morning and I dont feel comfortable being in another mans house w/ his W.

I think I am going to stay in a hotel tonight so I can just not be consumed by my thoughts her and us - Might stay tomorrow night too until I see a C.

As Jim has tried to tell me about MB 2x4's - I dont feel anyone is being mean or critical I know everyone here means well - Its just that I cannot put it all together and keep it together - I can do it a little at a time but not consistently - I do need help for my emotions and why they rule my actions

Well spent the night in a hotel, Barely slept and when I did guess who I dreamt about - Check out time was 11:00 Am and a friend picked me up - Went home and W and kids must have went to church.

I miss not being there and I on some level dont think its a good thing not to be there right now b/c it will make look like I dont care but needed tp stay away from W.

I am sure I will get a call from MIL tomorrow and will have to explain Fri. nights meltdown on my part but we were also supposed to meet w/ Pastor concerning the 2 chapters of the book we were supposed to read and W will have to answer for things w/o me to explain her "will to be free greater than her will to work on M"

I wish I could stop the negative thinking and put that effort into being a better person not only for myself but for my M and kids but maybe I am running from the hard work it will take but feel what W says she feels and thats to run.

More and more I want to run so I can heal but that seems to be the easy way out but my thoughts are leaning more towards running - Hopefully the C can help me find my path.

Does anyone know if C's can provide AD's or do I need to see my Dr.?