dg,

She hasn't done anything to move towards separation yet. If you don't give her a reason to (LB) she most likely won't. She doesn't want to lose the house, so you don't do anything. Just stay cool, calm, and collected. Continue to put pressure on the A, but not through her. Let exposure do the trick. Just keep plan Aing her, and things will only get better (if you avoid LB). She may very well have been starting to trust your changes, so last week was a minor setback, but the longer you go without LBing again, the more likely she'll think it is for real. Just keep it up. If you D asks you about "splitting up" again, tell her you are doing everything in your power to keep that from happening.

I wanted to say that I didnt but felt that it would have been pitting D against W and no matter what happens I could not be one of those parents that do that to their children.

I would never try to use them as a weapon, The only time I have said anything was early on w/ W where I asked about turning their lives upside down w/ all this.

Even tonight I said I am not in this just for financial, children etc - I really want a healthy R and healthy individuals. It was an ok talk as far as R/M talks go and really didnt want to talk about it at all except for the fact D asked what she did.

I guess I got my question answered about trying to move back to the bed right now - I am going to stay away at least thru the weekend, Hopefully she will give me insight to her session w/ C tomorrow

She did mention she is leaning towards S, Like I said dont know if its still "fog" or fallout from the past as well as last weeks meltdowns - She said up until last Tues. night she was beginning to trust me and I feel like such a failure all over again.

Don't feel like a failure. You are standing up for your family and that's exceptional. She is trying to blameshift here anyhow as she is the one with the OM and not you.

BTW, maybe you could ask your W if she would like to go to movie, dinner, etc after her C as you know she will be drained. It may be good to go out and try to have some fun and talk about whatever comes to mind beside R/M.

I will try but I feel that she is so distant now, She barely wants anything to do with me. I have tried not talking about anything right now other than needs of the children and/or their questions.

The last few days have been in a real funk, From my actions between Tues and Fri of last week - I really wish I would have tried to maintain at least ome of what I was doing - Those 2 days really get to me - I had bottled up a lot of things over a few months and let everything out w/o thinking.

I just got done writing a long letter to W about many things - I did not use the word love at all right now, did not bring up the A at all.

In a nutshell I just said that Yes we both need IC for our own issues and the way it affects our personal relationship also the emotional and financial impact on the kids and the cost of running 2 households.

The financial impact of losing the house and the hit each of our credit history will take or the hit of our 401k'S.

Also that even though it may seem good now to get out of this we will in some ways always be tied through our children and not just b/c of their needs right now but in some ways forever and having them have to make choices for the rest of their life.

I also said that I know it will take time to repair our R that with her work ethic and my determination isnt it worth a try - Even if it doesnt maybe we could lighten the financial hit we may take right now and to be there for each other while we are going through IC's.

If we S now the finances of the house are just one thing but they still need babysitter for school vacations and summer - They would also be forced to give up certan tings they have been accustomed to - I dont know if I should give it to her or let her do what she needs to do.

I feel if we just start to move on and start to lose things we will never recover - I feel if we lose the house and the monetary cost that goes with it - It will take all my incentive away from wanting to go back and as well if we split - I will have to sign a yr lease somewhere which would compound finances and desire.

I really am losing hope - My MIL called for W last night and I answered the phone and MIL was very business like and I am afraid to call her b/c of last Fri. night

Nobody gets to be a full blown cowboy until they've fallen of the horse a few times. We all made mistakes. This is a terribly difficult process, especially when you are wracked with emotion.

Stand tall, throw your shoulders back and keep your chin up. You are the one on the proper mission. You are on the high road. You are doing what's right. There is no need to feel badly, but there is a need to learn from your mistakes and redouble your efforts to not repeat them.

Stay in Plan A, and continue your introspection. Continue to make permanent those changes in you that will make you a better husband. Stay within the guidelines of the Marriage Builder's plan.

It is your commitment and persistance that will make a difference. No one thing you do will matter. It is the cumulation of ALL that you do that makes a difference.

Stay positive and believe you can survive this, and you will!

SD

I am really dreading tonight when W comes home, I started reading some things on sites concerning emotional/verbal abuse
from both the abuser as well as the abused and it really is disturbing.
Even though I owned the things I did in the past I didnt really get the full picture until after I was reading a hand out from my C and started to read up on things on many sites.

I know the OM and EA are not my fault no matter what I can see how my behavior could push my W to say things like she has recently (Im running away from you) etc and I know some can be "fog" speak but man some of the way our life progressed over the last several years in particular has me worried.

By the time the abused person gets to the point I feel my W is at, There is not much incentive for them to come back.

They say it is a long process for me to change my beliefs, behaviors and reactions and that unless the person is totally committed to change and constant monitoring they have a hard time recovering.

In the letter I wrote to my W at work today I said I was totally committed to IC, seeing psychiatrist, enrolling in program offered locally that deals w/ my behaviors, AA and regular attendance of church.

Putting MC on hold until we are both ready or even looking at family therapy for all of us.

You know even w/ EA or whatever it is/was I can see how my snooping and exposure could be called "stalking" as characterized on some sites - Rationally thinking I really was trying to let W know I could forgive for her A and come back to work on us.

But maybe she was gone before that as she said - I don't know and I fear her C will tell her the best thing she could do is stick to her plan of getting away.

I thought it was a combination of our personalities that caused our problems but I should have been more cognizant of my issues a long time ago.

THAT's the kind of introspection and motivation for change Plan A is all about. Make these "aha" moments work for you!

Do I say anything of what I have learned or just give her the letter? Some of these sites say how even me saying I know what I did or agreeing to change b/c of a loss could be construed as a control measure?

Going to C or anger mgmt classes etc is only a way for me to learn new techniques.

They also say that people that have used these methods even try to fool C's - I dont know what to do she has said more than once that she feels if she lets her barrier down at some point she will get hurt again.
A feeling of being trapped - And if she lets her barrier down she will get hurt again.

We talked a little and W said she felt it was productive and that it wasn't just the M that has caused her issues.

C did tell her that S may be beneficial to us so that we can mature, But wondering if maturity is gained by losing a house, disrupting the kids causing bigger financial obligations - I said I was willing to put R/M and any talks on back burner for each other to heal.

I mean this is her first visit and she said C will give her final suggestions next appt.

I just cant get over that a C would say after one visit that we should throw everything into turmoil just for maturity - Our S10 is an emotional boy - and I feel this would devastate him -

D11 seems more mature but we have issues that we have been fighting for her (weight problem) we are all thin and D11 has been struggling for years.

I know things have been under a microscope in our lives the last few months but to tear down everything to help 2 adults heal - I wouldn't heal properly knowing we may sacrifice house and future just to gain maturity.

The kids would be devastated and I would probably have more issues to deal with emotionally from failing them.

As important as my W is to me - I cannot think that we should be so selfish after 13 yrs + to take away everything we worked for and the security that the kids have left

My last 2 posts have said many things but I find myself still smarting over the C's suggestion that we need to seperate. I have been thinking so much about that and now am beginning to wonder whether W even saw anyone.

As I have said I have taken blame for where we find ourselves but the "fog" is so thick I do not know what to think - We talked a little last night but other than that W ignores the fact that I am even alive right now.

Dwelling in the family room and comp.room is very lonely I feel disconnected from everyone.

If anyone reads this please advise - I made 2 posts previous to this one to give you an overview since yesterday.

DO NOT SEPARATE! Separation is the wrong thing to do in the case of an EA. If you know the counselor, let the counselor know about the EA.

Thats just it - All my snooping has put her in stealth mode, She locks her car besides found spare key and she doesnt keep anything in there.

Nothing in her purse, hasn't had her cell phone fixed - Display is messed up, Nothing in her javkets.

Found out who first C was but W said appt was too far off so she found a new one. I am sure she is keeping everything at work - So I dont know what to do.

I am staying away from her job, Trying to give her space,, When I talk w/ her sometimes she seems ok - Other times she just hibernates at the other end of the house

Have you exposed to her work. I know you said her work in another office now, but you want to make sure that they don't communicate at work. Let her boss/HR director know, so they can have a "talk" with her about personal use of company phones. Does she email OM? Do you have a keylogger? She doesn't hang out with OM does she? If so, do you have a GPS on her car?

I haven't exposed to work b/c W's boss is married and having an A w. another married coworker. Besides most of the people there are D'ed at least once and from somewhere I read that in the office D's can be contagious.

Keylogger isnt an option b/c W hardly ever uses pc at home and I have no access to her pc @ work. Struggling w/ GPS as I am unsure which to look at, Have looked at several although she is truly nosy now as well anytime she is home she watches over her vehicle to see if I am looking at anything and fear she might find GPS.

Dont know if they "hang out" he is D'ed and supposedly has custody of his 3 children and they work in different depts as well as slightly different shifts.

Trust between us has eroded so much and totally unsure what her thought process is - W said that C will give W her "final" suggestions after 2nd meeting - Like I said how could a C after 1 or 2 meetings say that we should S especially w/ 2 kids in school to think about and if we did and it took too much time we will lose the house anyway - W said she could only make it 6 mths on her own.

You need to suggest to your W that she tries a MC who is pro-marriage, at least for 3 months.

Most hack marriage counselors sole purpose in life is to help you through an "amicable" divorce. Sounds like she's got one of "them". Call Harley's office for a referral of MC in your area who follow the MB philosophy, or, take the time to call in your area until you find one.

Proactive produces results. You are back to telling us why you can't do this or can't do that. Can't can't do squat, and accomplishes nothing. Plan A is about doing EVERYTHING in your power to expose, Plan A, self-improvement, all to bust up the affair and to make you a better husband. It's all about you doing all you can before giving up, so you are bigger, better and stronger and better able to move on, should the marriage fail in spite of your efforts.

C'mon, dg...hang in there. Do the work!

SD

I need to get to psychiatrist asap - Still not on AD's
W hears none of going to MC - Say she needs to work on self before R/M.

The exposure I have done like ML said was half baked and even though at first they believed what I was saying now they are protecting W. The work thing is a touchy thing as I said that comp. is rampant w/ garbage people.

I am doing things for me - I am seeing C and being 1000% honest about me and everything.

Have an appt w/ psychiatrist - Hopefully for not only AD's but assist in plan to be a better me.

Contacted local program to setup intake into a local group program for my behaviors that have brought me to where we all are.

Still having trouble focusing @ work and when I am home - Still too much obsessing and not enough pro-action - As I said I am feeling like an outsider - Before my meltdowns I was the strong one in the house - Now W seems to have seized that from me and its a battle - I need to work on my plan and do it - Still too much reacting.

I have not seen W in over 24 hrs, She said on Thurs. night she was supposed to work Sat. as it has been real busy.

I attended a meeting last night and she took the kids to her parents to spend the night b/c both of us had to work today.
She left a note saying she too was spending the night and I can only imagine it was b/c of last Fri. nights meltdown.

We havent even talked since yesterday morning - Not even by phone, I am not trying to crowd her right now.

I did drive by OM's house twice and her car was nowhere to be found and I do believe she was working but didnt check.

I have so wanted to talk to her, concerning everything but not sure if I should just let her get through next meeting w/ IC and see where we stand.

I do want to ask her about many things though, I mean how we both needed to see C's for our own issues, what effect a S or D would have on our children emotionally as well as financially short and long term. If we did S as her C suggests and looking at how much still needs to be done on our house and the fact that W even w/ CS could only make it 6 mths she said.

If we lost the house we would be in debt and or have to hit our 401k's to pay our debt and we would probably not be able to get another house if we did make it.

Running 2 households and trying to provide for children would add stress and decrease finances and I do not think W has thought about how hard things would be.

Along with the futures of our children - college and other things but on the emotional side it would take them out of a comfort zone even though we are in the midst of a storm.

So many issues and feel like we are moving towards the inevitable, I have only just heard from the Pastor no one from W's side of the family b/c of my meltdown last Fri.

Havent gone to church w/ W and kids b/c it was her church first and Pastor supposedly told W that she should've pursued R/O - My issues are great and W's issues are not just the M but she said things like her childhood and all relationships and that she feels she cannot trust herself right now to make a decision on anything.

Pastor and I have only exchanged emails and he hasn't been too forthcoming about what he wants to speak to me about but I dont want to cause W any more discomfort.

I owned up to the things that have happened but also brought up OM again and said it just seemed that since this "friendship" took off our M has really struggled but that I still did not want to deflect balme that I should take on many levels.

Even though we are still living in the same house I feel we are more like Plan B right now w/ me walking on eggshells and trying to give her space and her withdrawn attitude.

Cannot even show her that I am sincere about working on myself b/c she is never around and fear the more we spend away the easier it will be for her to keep moving, The only thing right now is that the kids are still in school and her parents are over 20 mi away so she will have to come home I guess.

Still havent spoken w/ W since saying good bye for work Fri morning.

Kids and her spent Fri night @ IL's - Talked w/ kids last night - Just trying to give space to W right now. Even kids seem distant from me now too and wonder if they are being influenced - Dont know what IL's feel anymore but if anyone really cared even about kids we cannot keep going on like this - S/D would be devastating to all.

Should I try to talk R/M w/ her today? I am sure we will cross paths today, This whole thing seems to be going downhill and I don't even know what to think right now.

Talked w/ a friend who went through foreclosure on a house and we would be screwed if we had to go that route and if we did S I would be forced to work another job to make ends meet and would take me away from kids.

W keeps saying we should S while we work on ourselves but I think that would make things worse and I have not Plan Aed very well from the beginning but tried until I messed up over a week ago and now I cant even get near her to show anything and besides we are both in a funk that our lives are a mess right now.

All we both do is work, take care of kids needs and live our lives completely separate from each other and this is not healthy.