Saw WH yesterday -we actually took our son to lunch together. When he left the lunch he gave me a kiss and hug. Last night he called our son before he went to bed-I have to say he has been good about keeping in touch with our son but its probably out of guilt-my H was very short with me and kept our part of the conversation to a minimum. This morning he was in the office and also seemed to keep conversation with me to a minimum.

I called him to talk to him about the appt I made for him with SH-I asked him to call me when he could talk when noone was around. Still havent heard from him-he was working on a problem with a subcontractor.

Is this behavior normal? Every day so erratic-never knowing how they are going to act. I guess I keep wanting to read too much into the contact he does give me.

Help

Pay no attention to his words...he knows not of what he speaks. Pay more attention to his actions, as they are the product of the working of what's left of his brain... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Best wishes,
SD

My husband called me-we had talked about going out to dinner tonight-he called me from the bank and said I dont think we should go out to dinner we dont have much $ in the bank. My husband has been out of the house for 11 days now. When he 1st left I paid every bill I had because I didnt know how he was going to be with our checking account or anything. So now that all the bills have gone through we are short on $ until we get paid again on Friday. He called and said I dont know why you paid ALL the bills none of them could have waited?? I called him last Sunday and told him to try to curtail some of his spending becasue I paid the bills and knew we would be short if he wsant careful. He has no clue what bills I pay or any of that.
I told him you can look at the bills and see which ones you didnt want me to pay. What is he thinking??

In the past he was talking about getting a 2nd on our house to consolidate some bills-I refused until I knew things were better between us. Now he is bringing it up again. He said Id like to get that loan and I said I know you would and left it at that. Then like an idiot I asked him what he was feeling about us-he said he didnt want to talk on the phone about it.

So I guess we will talk about it tonight.

Does everyone agree the loan is a TERRIBLE idea until he comes out of the fog?? It seems like such a big step to take right now.

Yep, I agree. Taking a loan out to fund an affair is patently ridiculous.

However, you have a chance to make some deposits in his love bank and meet some of his EN's if you cook him his favorite dinner tonight, and in a coy way, ignore his fog babble!

Best wishes,
SD

Answer to both questions - Yep

Second what SD said on both.

M2L

I dont feel like he wants the loan to fund his affair-when we first started having problems we went to a counselor that suggested we find something that interested both of us-this was before I knew OW was in the picture-so we bought a motorcycle. It has strapped us more financially than I thought it would.

He is living with a friend now and eating out all the time and I have to say that I am too-I have no interest in cooking right now. He says he planned on getting a 2nd on the house from the beginning for the motorcycle but he never explained it to me that way.

I agree that it would be nice to have the extra money and to pay less bills but not with the way things are with us right now. In Nevada where we live I have heard that everything is pretty much divided up 50/50 if you divorce-which I dont want to happen-so if something did happen he would be entitled to 1/2 the equity in our house so I would have to give him that and then we would have a 2nd to pay off also. It jut scares me.

Is it wrong to ask him what he is thinking about us right now? It is just so hard for me right now with him gone and not knowing anything thats going through his head.

Ask him over dinner <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SD-Is it ok to talk about us???

Sure it is! Just no Love Busters. None. Remain cool, calm and collected the entire time. Casually indifferent. If he speaks in fog-babble, speak it right back to him, repeating what he says to you in the form of a question, just to make sure HE knows how stupid his babble really sounds, but do this all with no "tones", no anger, no disrespect.

Talk about the fun things you've done together in the past, the really, really good times. Give him a glimpse of what he's considering losing. Give him a peek at reality!

No begging, crying, sniveling, no Love Busters, including Angry Outbursts, Disrespectful Judgements, Selfish Demands, etc.

Cool indifference, ultimate calm.

Fix his favorite meal for him.

Unconditional love!

SD

**edited to add: he'll notice a lot more of your ACTIONS than he will your words!! SHOW him you love him, but don't tell him.**

What if the subject of our son comes up-can I tell him how horrible this has been for him and how he's not doing too well.

Yes, of course, but all without lovebusters... none!

The purpose of this is to make deposits in his LB$, not to punish him, or push him away!

Think about it!

SD

Well my husband came over and we never did eat. He said that he doesnt want to call Steve Harley for his appt on Thurs and may listen for 2 seconds and hang up-I said the charge is the same no matter how long you are on the phone. He says he has no feelings for me anymore and by being with the OW (just friends though) it made him realize the feelings he has been missing with me.

He said the only thing he misses about being here is being with our son-he misses nothing about me.

He said he likes where he is staying and that he kind of feels like a bachelor. He said he can imagine 18 more years with me-I said you make it sound like you have been miserable. He said well we have had some fun but its just not there anymore. He said that he hopes I can find someone when we are divorced that treats me the way I deserve to be treated. He also said something about not being sure he could last 6 more months.

I asked him if he was mad I called the OW husband-that was 11 days ago. He got mad just talking about it. He said I should have left them out of it and that both her and the husband called him that night and that the husband was on the internet looking up her cell phone records. From what I was told the husband believed that they were just friends which I am beginning to wonder if thats true.

He said that he doesnt see how calling SH wuold be a miracle and change the way he feels about me-I said its not a miracle but I thouhgt he should listen to him and we would be the ones to make the change in our marriage not him he would just give us the info we needed to do it. I brought up what Steve said about the greatest outcome would be for our sons parents to be in love and he said he doesnt see it happening.

Before he left he did agree to call him and I asked him to please have an open mind-he said he would try.

Is all of this a bad sign? Does this sound like other peoples spouses?

The mouth of a WS has no contact with their brain. It is all, word for word, right out of the WS "handbook". They all say the very same stuff. It's all fog-babble.

Stop hanging on every word, because his words mean nothing.

Getting him to speak with Dr. Harley is a real plus, as he has a knack for getting through to people who are in the fog.

Hon, this takes a lot of time and a greater amount of effort. I wish I could tell you there is a magic pill that will make this all go away, but there's no such thing.

Some of us bumped up the thread called "the carrot and stick of plan a". Read that thread and memorize the things you need to do to keep fighting the good fight.

You WH is "just like every other wayward spouse".

Fill his EN's and do some of the things mentioned in previous posts. Keep reading everything, other posts, Harley's site, "Surviving an Affair" and see how "alike" all these WS's are. Harley's plan works, but it must be exercised with serious intent. It takes a while to get used to doing all these things, but once you get in the groove, it's rather simple.

Just believe, understand the plan, work the plan!

Best wishes,
SD

Under no circumstances sign a loan or borrow money with a WS.

Ditto BK. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Do not make any life changing decisions whilest in an emotional state. Do NOT do the bidding of a WS.

$$ is a strong tool. The lack of it can be used to knock some major holes in the A through the fog.

L.

So do they all say they dont know if they can make it another 6 months-or whatever the time frame is?? It just seems like he has his mind made up.

Is it wrong for me to clal him and say you need to take our son Thurs Sat and Mon next week?? Right now he just calls our son 2 x a day and will occassionally see him. It just seems like even though he has moved out he has no consequences to what he has done-he's living with this guy for free, I pay all our bills out of our checking acct etc.

Another thing he said was that he would give me the house sinc ehe is the doing this and that if we got the loan he would be responsible for that bill. He said there is no need to get an attorney since he is willing to do this. He had complained about the price of counseling and I said a divorce would be a lot more expensive.

He is babbling and there are NO guarantees with a WS. Make safer decisions with mandated backup (i.e. alimony, child support, legal agreements, legal separation, D, etc.).

If he is grumbling about the costs of counseling, what makes you think he can pay housing in 2 places for long?

L.

I agree I feel like going through a divorce without an attorney to protect me and my son is not the right thing to do. I said to him how long do you plan on staying at this guys house? He said we cant even afford the bills we have right now so how is he supposed to get his own place?? Then he said thats why we need to get that loan. I REFUSE to do anything right now. Let him stay with this guy for a while-I cant believe that he is happy sharing a home with him after having your own home for so long. Im sure its not as comfortable as being in our home.

He is going to talk to SH next Thursday and I talk to SH on Friday and I will see what he thinks our plan should be. Maybe I need to step back-not be the one to ask him to do things after work since he is so "miserable" with me anyway. Steve mentioned maybe having to go into Plan B -but he would let me know after he spoke to my H.

I thought of another idiotic thing he said last night-we purchased a Harley in Oct -the counselor said we needed a hobby to do together-this was before I knew about OW. He said if you really like riding on the motorcycle maybe you can find someone that has one so you can keep doing it.

I said you neever know maybe we can ride together again. He said maybe.