That is the WS speaking. He still has feelings for you, but he has to pretend he doesn't so he doesn't have to live with the GUILT of what he is doing. Don't listen to what the WS says, they will lie to you to protect their fantasy. Only listen to the H. You will know which one is talking by what they are saying.

Thanks for that Jim-I already know that but its so hard to keep that in the front of my mind sometimes.

Do you think I should start seeing an attorney now? What exactly is that for and I assume I should let my H know I am seeing attorney right?

I never made it to plan B, so I would discuss it with the plan B experts. I think you should be meeting with a lawyer to get your ducks in a row for plan B. I know how much of a toll plan A is taking on you, and Dr. Harley suggests only 3 months of plan A for a WH. I would give it about 1 month of fun and flirty jrobin before going to plan B (if he will do something with you for Valentine's day, then right after it so he has a good memory to think about, or if he is spending V-day with the OW, then right before V-day, so it kills his good time with OW). Don't tell him about the lawyer, but if he finds out, I would say something like, "I want to save our marriage, but I am not naive enough to think that divorce isn't a possibility, so I need to know what I need to do to protect myself and the children."

Ok-H was leaving office for the day and stopped by my office and said bye so I walked over to him and gave him a kiss and hug and said talk to you later and he said ok. Is it ok to kiss him as much as possible or back off a little?

Also his friend got a new motorcycle and he was decribing it to me and he said its like "ours". since he said its like ours should I say hey lets go for a ride this weekend. I guess if he says no I just say ok.

I just dont want to push too much too soon if you know what I mean.

OW has been out of town for 2 weeks and I know now that I should have been this way all this time. She may be back if not she will soon.

Just play it by feel. If he backs away or makes a face when you kiss him, you might want to cool it. If he seems receptive, then continue.

Got it about the kisses.

Another question-I have been reading LilSis's thread-it talks about the most important EN's for a man and the only one I would be able to meet at this time would be admiration-we dont spend enough time together for me to be able to meet any others. That worries me.

Start meeting the need of admiration. If you do that your WH will WANT to be around you more often, and you will be able to meet more and more of his ENs.

Jen:
Don't sell yourself short. You can meet affection as well, and you have been by making cookies, kissing/hugging, smiling...acting like you LIKE him. If you are sucessful in getting him to go for a ride this weekend, then you've got recreational companionship. So you are doing great.

You mentioned earlier that you were shaking after one of your interactions. I felt--and still feel--the same way sometimes. Don't worry about it. You are doing your very best, and you are doing well.

Check back later...
LS

Pick out a fun place to go on the motorcycle, and ask him to take you this weekend. If he says no, then go in your car with your son. Be sure to take lots of pictures to bring to work to show your husband. You want to get it into his mind that he could have fun with you.

Also, I think you have ample opportunity to connect, so I wouldn't worry about not seeing him enough to have an impact. If you see him everyday at work, that's great. I have to manufacture contact with my WH.

In some ways, it might be easier for both of us this way. I can't imagine Plan Aing 24/7. It would be really hard to sustain it. It would be VERY hard if WH were at home, and have to watch him go off---when you know he's going off to see OW. Some folks on this site have to do that. YUCK. Can you imagine?? That takes real strength. For you and I, it's more like hit and run...do something that you've thought out really well and get the most bang for your buck...leave him with a good impression. Let the OW dig her own grave, and for our sakes, hope she shovels fast.

Please keep in mind that I'm just Plan Aing like you...there are others here who have the bigger picture.

Also...what about the "need" issue? That's been a big one lately on my thread (you may have to wade through several pages of forgiveness discussion to find it...). It has been a struggle for me to figure out how to demonstrate that I NEED WH, that he's NEEDED and desired...without appearing needy or desperate. That's been tough for me because I tend to be someone who will take care of myself, and am too prideful to ask for help...especially from a WH. All summer, I refused to ask WH to mow the grass or do anything around the house...I was determined to SHOW HIM that I could do it myself. Melody Lane and others here have shown me how many WHs need to know that they are needed...they like to feel like MEN. I still struggle with this...but I'm trying.

Aside from understanding it psychologically, there's a quick advantage to showing WH that you need him. If you ask him to do something FOR you, then it gives you a chance to show admiration when he does it. Be gushy, over the top.

Anyway, something to consider.
LS

First of all thanks you guys-sometimes I feel like I should just give up but your words help me go on.

The weathe ris supposed to be awful here this weekend so the ride will be out....He is supposed to pick up our son on Sat to spend the day with him-should I think of something I "need" him to do around here? I should I think of something I "need" him to do for our son?

Your're right though-I do love him and I should show it even if he doesnt right now. No I cant imagine doing Plan A 24/7-it is kind of exhausting for me.

Talk to you later.

I had a really bad day-the computer at work kept going down and then I found out that the other woman is back in town and my H only came in the office once around 3:00 pm and was there for about 30 seconds-just said he had to run... I imagine he was with the OW this am-having coffee or whatever of course I dont have proof of this but it's where my mind goes.

I have had thoughts of hiring p.i. but wonder if that is necessary-at this point he has moved out so I know that he is not committed to me and what would I do with the information when I got it??

Didnt meet any of his EN's today-thats for sure. How does everyone deal with not having any of their needs met??

Consult your lawyer.

Depending on what state you live in, it could make a difference in division of property, spousal support, and custody. If you don't have proof, you might want to get some if it goes down that road.

Yes, have something for him to do on Saturday. New Years morning, I had WH come in to fix the water filter when he arrived to drop off the kids. I had showered and fixed myself up, but I was still in my robe...you get the picture. I wouldn't have him do something for your son...everyone tells me that part of what you need him to do is not to think of you as just a "mom" but a breathing woman. Is there anything that needs a MAN to get done? something he used to do (like for me, changing the furnace filter...that kind of stuff)

(Maybe part of this recommendation is because all my "advisors" have figured out that I was the super-mom type, always trying to be perfect, involved with the kids, etc. Does this fit you, too?)

Sorry to hear about your day. I know it stinks. I always know that WH is with OW on Wednesdays...last week I even saw them together. That is her day w/o her kids. (of course they are together other times as well, but I just KNOW about Wednesdays) So, on Wednesdays...I just tell myself, "I know they are together. Just forget about it. Just accept it. Don't obsess. You can only control YOU."

Use your knowledge that they are together to provide you with the motivation to do a kick a$$ Plan A.

I get my needs met by talking to people who care about me. I also take a LOT of bubble baths. And I read the Bible (which I NEVER did before this). I read a lot of books on things like forgiveness (but let's not get started on that here!!), grace, etc. It calms me and makes me feel grounded.

Right now I am going to make myself some hot chocolate.

Take care of yourself, Jen. As Pep just told me, do something sweet for yourself.

I could buy new filters for the heater and ask him to replace them when he comes.

Yeah I guess to a point I was trying to be perfect.

Sometimes I feel like giving up-he treats me as though I am the "enemy"-I have done nothing wrong. His tone of voice is very short and then when our son gets on the phone it totally changes. Can I say to him-hey I am not your enemy-but Im sure he knows that huh?

Today I am getting my hair done and then meeting a friend for lunch.

This morning he picked up son up to take him to school and he brought the bowl back the cookies were in and said thank you and I kissed both of them beofre they left.

"Sometimes I feel like giving up-he treats me as though I am the "enemy"-I have done nothing wrong. His tone of voice is very short and then when our son gets on the phone it totally changes."

Don't worry about it. This is completely normal, and will last as long as he has contact with the OW. It sure would be nice if her husband was checking on things. Hopefully he is, behind the scenes.

Is it common for the WS to make the BS feel like they are trying to erase you out of their lives?? My H calls and leaves messages on the answering for our son but doesnt mention me at all.

When he wants to see our son he has our son talk to ma bout it instead of calling me himself.

Its like I don't exist anymore to him-is that to help relieve some of his guilt or what??

Normal, normal, normal. Ignore it and do a good Plan A.

He made plans with our son for today but set them up with him-not me then told our son to talk to me about it-should I ask my H to speka to me directly before making plans with son??

Can I say something to him about the way he speaks to me or not worth it?

Someone recommended I call her H again but it doesnt feel right to me-any thoughts on that

Tell him: Any plans for you and your son must be setup and cleared directly through me. Our 7 year-old is not my schedule planner.

This is a marital boundary that you need to set up. If he want to see your son, he must go through you.