Yesterday was a wonderful day. We bought the house that we had both really wanted, and we were looking forward to our fresh start together.

Then the following happened. W and I are watching TV together, engaging in occasional light conversation. We somehow got on the subject of how in the neighbors' relationship, the H felt that his W had "married up", and that explained why she works so hard and he makes no money and has a sense of entitlement. Well, DW then of course had to analyze our relationship. She said "you feel that you married down and I feel that I married down". I said something along the lines of the fact that I thought I'm "a catch" and that she's "a catch" too.

The idea that I might be "a catch" set off some very bad things. She wanted to make sure that I knew that she married down. She asked, "OK, what makes you a catch?" I said I'm intelligent, hard-working, good provider, good husband, able to introspect and improve myself, I'm not a 10 but I'm not unattractive either, etc. Instead of just nodding, she had to make sure I knew how I could not possibly be a "catch", otherwise she would have been happier and never would have had an A. So she conceded the following "good" things about me: "You're clever in how you use niceness to manipulate people" and "You're bookish smart but never had any real academic success" (for the record, I was a high school valedictorian, 99.9 percentile SAT and GREs, 4.0 GPA in my master's program while working full-time and being promoted...I'm sorry if that's bragging, but I just want to show how even my legitimate successes in life she is discounting and belittling). I told her those are the worst compliments I've ever heard and said we should end the conversation, so I walked away. She followed me and insisted that "it's important that you understand that you're not a catch".

Well, she kept at it until I snapped. I put my fist through the bathroom wall (I'm pretty sure that's a love buster, right?) I slumped on the floor while she continued to offer no mercy. I'm sorry to be dramatic, but if I had had a gun I would have finished myself without hesitation right there. I know that's horrible to say, but all I could think of was to get away from my own thoughts and pain. Obviously, I need to work on finding my own confidence and self-worth without depending on others, and I will think long and hard about that. But I just couldn't believe that whether she loves me right now or not, that she's "open" to giving the M a chance, but still think it's a good idea to hurt me so deeply. She also talked about how she is "vulnerable to another A" because she "misses being in love". She says she hardly thinks about OM anymore, but she does really miss being in love with someone. I told her that she better have the courage to divorce me next time if she thinks she can't give the marriage a shot and is "in love" with someone else. I made it very clear that another A will end badly for all of us, since it would be done this time with the full knowledge of the devastation that it is sure to cause. I also told her she needs to decide if she wants to jump from infatuation to infatuation in her life or settle into the mature love that comes with marriage and family. She said she doesn't know, that maybe she's not cut out for mature love.

We did end up talking a little more rationally for about an hour or two after that, but there was never any reaching out in kindness on her part. This morning she was cranky, but she did stop and gave me a long hug and I gave her a small kiss on her way out the door.

So I don't know what to make of all of this. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by any of it. Everything is still very recent and raw. I'm thinking the best thing we can do is to start right away on reading the MB books together, and talk to the Harleys a few more times. She seems to be willing, even though I know she doesn't particularly want to.

Besides not punching walls, is there anything else I should be doing differently? Or any thoughts on what to make of these events?

NS

NotSleeping,

Darn good academic credentials!

How come you didn't tell her that her having an A was not because of your shortcomings but because of hers?

are you 2 in counseling? You should be.

also - as I read her statement about "you just need to know that you are not a good catch" the first thing that popped into my mind was: Why? Why do you feel that it is so importnat to hurt my feelings? What possible benefit could you hope to gain from that?

I just think it is always a good idea to get right down to the basics, the simple issues.

I would think a simple statment like: "When you, my wife, my family, the woman I cherish, is so determind to make me feel inferior, to make sure I understand that I am not worthy of another persons love, tht hurts my feelings to the core. I wonder, what possible bemefit is there in that?"

And for the record - there is no such thing as marrying down. That is a horrible statement to make in regards to anyone - you, your wife, your neighbor. Tath is ridiculous. we are all just people, we are all capabale of giving and receiving love. We are all worthy to be loved. Period.
I would hope that in the future, if a conversation ever turns into a judgement by her of whether or not someone "married down" I hope you will stand up and say "we are all just people, we all want to love and be loved, no one marries down or up"

WomanOfFaith: You're absolutely right. There is no marrying up or down. Once you make the choice to marry each other, you are equals and both deserving of each other's love. I'm ashamed that we even engaged in the conversation about the neighbors. As to why she feels it's important that I lower my opinion of myself, as far as I can tell she's worried that I walk around feeling like I am too good for my wife. I don't know what it will take for her to trust that I am committed to her and only want us both to be happy. I just hope that time and counseling will get us there. Cymanaca, I'll reply to your post soon. NS

NS,

I see that NC occurred 11/06 (and did not see a ?). She must still be in withdrawal.

She is probably seeing herself as the bad terrible person. Guilty as charged, print a big red A on her chest, etc. So to survive in her own home she must bring you down to somewhere close to her level as she sees herself now.

That you, with all your education, would succomb to her manipulation is unfortunate. Although the A is over (?) and the NC (?) is in place, she is still considered an alien being, as long as withdrawal is still taking place.

So you must LET IT ROLL OFF YOU BACK. Step back and see how immature her actions are. You are, of course, dealing with a selfish WW who was only concerned with her self centered self gratification.

It will take time for the loving wife you married to emerge from the fog.

IMHO

krk

This reminds me of one of the very first things my WH said to me upon his return home after our initial separation.

Back story, I used to bathe with Bath&Body Works Warm Vanilla something or other, and WH used to say he liked that smell, reminded him of summer. Well fast forward to October 6th, 2005. WH comes by the house to tell me that he is on his way to pick up his bags and come home. He hugs me, gives me a sniff and says that my perfume 'stinks'. It was the same stuff he 'liked' not 6 months earlier.

I told him that having the first thing out of his mouth be a put down, It hurt my feelings.

I think the guilt of just being around me caused him to lash out at me, even in that small way. I'm sure he knew that I wouldn't be jazzed about the comment, and that was the desired affect, cast the light away from him so that the focus shifts, and maybe he'll feel some relief. In my case, I was enabler. I punched a wall or two (no holes though)! It really is just an immature ploy to knock you down. DON'T ENGAGE in this! Back up.

I am so sorry for your NS...I too am a BS and have D'd my EX WW. I do know that if the opportunity ever came to reconcile, not that I think it will or if it does that I will want it anyway, that I would be so defensive. If she were to say something like that to me during the process of reconcilitaiton after having an A and destroying our family, hurting our children I am afraid that I would remove everthing she owned to the yard and set it on fire, put her on the curb and tell her to never come back. I don't think I would be good at the recovery thing?

Some of these waywards are absolute lunatics. Next time she starts this crap with you, don't apologize or make excuses tell her that you are not perfect but that you are a loving, and forgiving father and husband or she would not be there now and that this is far better than some cheating a-hole who thinks nothing of anyone but himself and getting a piece of tail. Then walk off whistling, throw on some clothes, aftershave/cologne and leave for a couple of hours.

Thanks for your replies everybody. I guess I just needed to hear one more time that I need to expect some of this behavior during withdrawal/early recovery, especially before she's fully on board with the MB program, committed to avoiding LB's, etc.

Cymanca: As to why I don't tell my W that the A was due to her shortcomings and not mine, it's because I know I am internalizing a lot of the blame for all of this. I don't know why I do it, but I do. I think I confuse my role and 50% blame in the unfulfilling M with her choice to have an A. I need to try to remember that the two issues are related but separate. I'm not sure it gets me very far though to press her to acknowledge that I didn't cause her affair, especially if according to some of the other theories posted here she is already having difficulty coming to terms with her guilt and her own tarnished self-image.

One thing I left out in my original post is that for a while last night she kept insisting that I "let her have it". Tell her all the horrible things I think about her, and that "she'll respect me if I do", that I need to "have the courage to tell her the truth". I told her "OK, you're being a b**** by intentionally hurting me when I'm already beaten down" (she asked "how are you beaten down?" HA!) and that she has serious rage and anger problems, but she wanted more. She wanted me to tell her how unworthy she is and how horrible she is. I didn't because I don't think that. If I thought that why would I be fighting for her? But in light of some comments made here, it could be a sign that she is dealing with her own guilt.

NS

Had it occurred to you she might be fearful that you might engage in a revenge affair, and was trying to make you feel unworthy of anyone's attention. Just a thought...

SD

NS,

A WS ALWAYS rewrites history and truth to suit their immediate needs. Hang around these forums and pay attention to any of the FWS's here and they all virtually say the same thing "I can't believe I said that, wrote that, did that etc..."

For this reason you MUST NOT accept the blame for her A. That would be as great of a lie as her A is/was. Lies benefit no one. And the action of pressing your WW to admit that you did not cause the A is even more useless.

Best of luck

SD, my W is definitely fearful that I will have a revenge affair. She has said as much.

Here is what I know about myself though. I was just as unhappy and vulnerable as my W was, and had the opportunity come up for me like it did for her, I probably would have made the same bad choices. That is why I know I can forgive her. But I also know my vulnerability to an affair is now 0%. I would recognize the danger of inappropriate friendships, avoid the situation, and never wish the pain of an A on my W or my family. Of course, there's no way for my W to trust that those are my beliefs except to gradually learn to trust me over time.

NS