Hi guys,

Since we've been separated (12 months now) I too have taken a long hard look at myself.

I was very controlling (which is all based in fear) and I made plenty of mistakes too in our marriage. Because I was 4 years older and we married when he was 21, I became more of a mother at first rather than a wife. He was very irresponsible with money and decisions and so I felt I HAD to be the responsible and mature one. I wish I could have 'looked up' to him as my husband and trusted that he would make the best decisions for the both of us. Alot of my disrespect for him came from all his lying too.

Once he was wearing a brand new watch and when I asked him where he got it he tried to tell me that it was an old one that I just mustn't have ever seen. yeah right! I did some snooping and found a credit card statement where he'd bought it while away for the night for work. The more and more he lied about little things the more and more controlling & LB'ing I became.

...Until I didn't care anymore. I was so worn down and so sick of the fights I decided to change my behaviour (for the better). I stopped being demanding and pretty much agreed with everthing he said and did.

And I slowly became a shell of the person I was. My friends noticed. But I ignored everyone. As far as I was concerned, I loved my husband, I wanted to protect him always and I would no longer listen to what anyone else had to say.

What you said AlmondEyes is so true for me: Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.

That's exactly what I did. It was MUCH easier than to face the truth.

Now, I think you've got a good chance of sorting this out...because you're husband, though similar to mine in the lying etc....does not want to loose you. His dream says a lot! This is about HIM but....you can't fix what you don't acknowledge.

I've spent the last 12 months praying for wisdom and understanding and boy I'm getting it. I so badly wished I had the knowledge back then that I have now about WHY my husband's behaviour was like it was, what it would eventually lead to and more importantly WHAT this huge hole was inside of him that could make a man (who was going to be a minister!) have an affair and actually abandon his wife and small child.

Your husband has deep issues that he probably isn't even aware of. But I think you have a good chance too, like Rinder said. Don't give up! Keep choosing to love this man, but set your boundaries and - I know this is hard for all of us - search deep inside of you too. My WH's affair was 100% his fault and NOTHING I did could ever justify what he choose to do...BUT I was 50% responsible for our marriage problems up to the affair. I found it very difficult to really look at myself, accept my tendancy to treat him like a baby and show him little admiration and trust, but I have LEARNED so much! I have become a better person! Free (well almost!...ok, I've still got a long way to go) of my own insecurities and fears. I wish I had the chance to do this before the affair...but at least I have done it and whatever my future, I'm a better, stronger, more loving and understanding person.

My WH's biggest fall was not understanding that we can fall in love with anyone, under the right circumstances and once he realised he actually had to stay active in not making emotional attachments to other women, it was far too late. He was naive and thought it was innocent to flirt with the girls and go out to lunch with them (lunch dates was how his affair started).

Thinking of you - we know your pain. Keep us posted.

HI Lucyloo! Right off the bat I have to thank you for this statement:


My DH and I started dating at 19 and three months later we moved in with each other...like your WH, mine was not good with money...LOL...his whole paycheck went to the bank b/c he was overdrawn...

I went home for the summer and the phone was turned off, the electricity at another point, then the phone again...he just couldn't manage it by himself...I have always paid the bills...

This is an area that I wish that he would be more helpful in...of course, I do keep him up to date on what's paid, needs to be paid, and have set up a cash flow chart for the year...should something happen to me...I've made it easy for him over the year's...he's comfortable with this and feels that should he HAVE TO, he could...

Like you I would complain about the things he would buy...DH is an impulse buyer...he's gotten better over the years but still does it from time to time...

I never thought about it but I feel like I'm the mother slapping his hand when I have to say we can't afford it...

{quote]I stopped being demanding and pretty much agreed with everthing he said and did.[/quote]

There you have it...I lost myself, became a CA, a doormat, isolated from friends and family...partialy due to the emotional and verbal abuse...the guilt, blame, and manipulation...WOW...

I was SO angry and resentful...IMHO, I think I'm the one who started the PA behavior...I would go for long periods of time not talking to him...withhold sex...try to punish him by not fixing his plate, picking up the laundry...whatever I thought of at the time...

I had to own my part to him...I use to do this to you in the past, I'm not going to do that to you anymore...

When you talk about how much you've learned...I'm right there with you! How childish I was... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for sharing...I look forward to your insight in the future...

Almond- Sweetie...YOU can rise above this...everything you need is in YOU...I'll have faith for you when you have none...

Deal? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have done all of the things that you and Lucyloo have done and my situation is similair. He is also the younger person and I have acted like his mother in the past. He has complained in the past that I am controlling and that I think he is stupid.

Rinder the reason I think that he doesn't to work on the marriage is because he hasn't done what he promised to do. He pretended to be so excited about MB and told me to send him all of the articles and get the books. Everything is still sitting on the coffee table. I refuse to mention it because it's right there and if he wanted to look at it he would. My hands are tied, if I remind him to do what he has promised then I am falling back into my "mother-boss" roll which gives him reason to rebel.

I figure if he was really interested in working on the marriage he would follow through on what he promised. Next thing is the lie. I mean what bugs me so much is that he didn't have to lie at all but he decided to do so. I wasn't pressuring him for answers he wasn't being pushed into a corner. I said nothing at all he is the one that came to me and lied and then wanted to act like he was being this great guy who is willing to do the right thing for the family.

I was almost sucked in and convinced that he was telling the truth. In the old days I would have let it slide and not checked his computer and then I would go through the cycle of shock and hurt and AO in a few weeks when I found more stuff because I would feel like I had been suckered yet again.

Rinder, thanks for the vote of confidence (((hug))) I need all the help I can get.

I haven't been able to post about his response because he was off work for two days. Anyway he was in the living room on his computer and I was in the bedroom changing the babies diaper. He came into the bedroom looking really intense so I knew he got the email. It was sort of amusing to me because I had sent the email about 24 hours before and I had behaved completely normal, upbeat, and cheerful which is so not typical for me anytime I catch him in a lie.

He asked me why didn't I just ask him what he wrote instead of checking his IM log and emailing it to him. I said why would I ask you anything when I know that you are going to lie? I also reminded him that I had never asked him anything in the first place and that he was the one who came to me and lied. He tried to deny it and say that he wrote that now wasn't a good time and that was what he told me. I didn't get explode or show any angry but I told him that I have excellent hearing and a very sound mind. I told him that if he wants to re-write history he may do so but I know that what he said and what he wrote were two different things.

I didn't get into it with him at all. I just told him that if he wants to be trusted then he has to be trustworthy and that means telling the truth at all times. I told him that I was not ashamed at all of checking up on him and that I would continue to do so until I felt that his words matched his actions.

He didn't say anything else to me about it; what could he say?

I don't know what he will do next. I don't know if he will feel like I am trying to control him and do something even more outrageous or go even further to cover up the next lie. There is no telling really. I am definitely getting that key logger installed on his computer soon. As for his little buddy she has not emailed or responded to the email I sent her through his Myspace account. I actually deleted his sent messages so he doesn't even know that I sent it to her or have been in his account. I figure that if he finds out it will be so unexpected he will be really upset and will not be able to stop himself from saying something to me. If that happens I can deal with him then and I will let him know that I did it and why I did it.

Good Morning! I hope that you are bright and shiny this morning! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


How about listen and repeat? I heard you say that I should have asked you what you wrote. I know that you told me that you couldn't speak with her anymore. I don't feel comfortable with you telling my the truth so, I checked!

When we ask questions it's like attacking, simply state your truth. This has been really hard for me...to listen and repeat, not attack with questions...

LOL...MOF...I asked a question yesterday and I should have simple stated what I knew...I didn't realize that until I started writing this post. I have found that this has really worked well. I'm being respectful to FWH and learning to be O&H at the same time.

I think that you are on the right track...whether you feel that you are or not...I can say that I fought the same thing for years but it wasn't until the A and the past eight months that things have come together...

I focused on FWH and his actions...accused him of lying...and that created a problem in itself...I wasn't being respectful to him...it was his POV I was talking about...to him he wasn't lying, it was his truth...

I had to accept his truth and know that his truth could be different from mine...still made me uncomfortable...LOL...CRAZY sometimes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> We still have a long way to go...I still check up on him...for my sanity...of course, if I find something else, I'm really going to have to sit on it before I say or do something about it.

Reacting from emotions doesn't do any good...

I have to remember: I before E

Intelliegence before emotion!

Really hard to do sometimes but I can think more logically, not attack or accuse...simply state what I need to using I statements...loving detachment...knowing that this is not about me but about him...

I know I'm probably repeating myself and you know this stuff...LOL...So I'll stop...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well, I'm wishing you a wonderful day! How old is the baby? MOF, I don't know any stats on you. Would you be so kind as to let me know your age, WH's, and all that wonderful stuff! I would greatly appreciate it, just as I appreciate you and sharing your story! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

All is quiet on the home front.

Well so far so good. Things seem to be steadily improving and I think we are making some progress. I have not had any AO and I have not been LB at all. DH seems to be very happy and he is much more relaxed at home so Plan A is going very well. His PA behavior has also declined drastically and when he does something that seems PA I recognize it and stop it before it gets out of hand.

We had a minor disagreement about finances. He overspent during X-mas and he as usual expected me to fix it. Instead of fixing the problem or exploding about him being financially irresponsible I simply reminded him that during December I advised him against overspending and he choose to do so anyway so there was nothing I could do about it now. I said don't worry honey I am sure you will find a way to manage. I am done digging him out of his financial messes.

I think the woman I emailed tried to email me but I only accept emails from friend's so she has no way to contact me directly. She would have to send a messge through the husbands myspace account and she has not done that. He has removed her from his buddy list and I have reason to believe they have not spoken. I am still quietly monitoring all of his email accounts and computer activity and if he is in contact with any OW he is not doing it from his home computer. His sex drive has increased and we have been having a lot more SF then ever. We were down to about once a month before and now he is literally chasing me around the house, which is cool. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He still has not read the MB info I left for him and I do want him to do that but I am trying to take a gentle approach instead of nagging him. I just mentioned as I was cleaning the coffee table that the packet was still there and asked if he had read it? He said that no he hadn't read anymore of it but he intends too. I reminded (nicely) that he had promised me he would so I hope he keeps his promise and I left it at that. I am really hoping that he does keep his word because if not this might be a temporary lull in the storm. I want our "issues" resolved because if they aren't I am sure that our problems will return with a vengeance eventually.

Anyhow, I haven't posted any personal info about me and the man because I have told people I know about MB and I want to remain anonymous. I fear that if I give away details about my location, ages, or sex of our child that someone I know will be able to figure out who I am. This might cause some embarrassment for my family so I am keeping as much about myself private as I can.

Again, Rinder and everyone else who has posted, thanks for your good advice. No matter which way the wind blows with this man the important thing is that I will be all right. My anxiety and stress levels have plummeted. I feel like I am prepared to deal with whatever happens in my marriage. I hope the outcome is all positive of course but if it isn't I have the tools take care of myself.

I have been in Plan A for a little while now but I was really struggling with it. I felt resentful because I felt that as usual the onus is on me to work on this marriage. I felt that the husband is content to avoid all conflict and ignore all problems until I insist that they can no longer be ignored. Why should I always be the one to approach him? Why should I always be the one who tries to fix everything? Why should I be the one who orders the books? Finds the information? Tries to get him involved in making this a better marriage? Why do I have to be the one who has to change my ways when he is content to let the house burn down around us?

I was following the motions of Plan A but my heart was not fully into it at all.

Then it came to me.

You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
I can't remember the first time I saw those words, maybe it was in H.S but I know it was a long time ago. At the time I thought it was an incredibly powerful and accurate statement.

From the moment I remembered it Plan A became easy. No matter where I go or what I do I am responsible for my actions. If there is negativity in my life then it is because I have allowed it to be in my life. I DO NOT have to allow my buttons to be pushed because I am in control of all of my responses.

I love it.

Anyhow, on to the husband, it is pretty calm around here, minor progress has been made on the way we treat each other but no progress have been made on any of the root issues that cause us to act the way we do.

I have access to things like his Myspace and email etc. It's just that a body can never be sure if a person simply hasn't created new accounts and frankly I have no way of finding out. If a person wanted to they could just use the computer at the office and a spouse would have no way of monitoring that activity if they chose not to access certain websites or send emails from home.

I have the books His Needs and Her Needs as well as Love Busters. I read them thoroughly from cover to cover. I printed out all of the material on MB that I could find for the husband but he has not read any of it. I guess he feels that since I have not had any AO or DJ's that everything is fine. I feel differently, but I refuse to harp on it because that type of behavior is not helpful.

I mentioned it in passing once while I was cleaning up the coffee table. I asked him in a non-confrontational manner if he had ever had the chance to read the stuff I left for him because I would like to fill out the Q's with him but we both need to read the material first and he said that he had not but that he was going to do it. I told him to let me know when he was ready and I dropped the subject.

I know that he is a passive-aggressive type so it's typical of him to agree to do something and not follow through because he is just being agreeable but really has no intention of following through. He has had more than enough time and opportunity to read the MB information but simply chooses not to do so.

In the past I would have flown off the handle and had an AO and made many DJ but I am not going to do that. Everything in life is about choice and if he chooses to not work on the marriage then I cannot force him to do so.

I was watching a taped episode of Oprah during the week and it was about creating the kind of relationship you wanted. There was a man by the name of Dr. Zukav (I think) anyway the show started off by saying write down five words about your marriage.

For example: Loving, wonderful, intamite etc. He acted like he was not interested in the show (always makes fun of Oprah) but then he asked me to give him 5 words about our marriage and I couldn't for the life of me bring my self to do it. I just felt this welling up of depression and since I had nothing really positive to say I said this:

I am trying to change myself so that our relationship is better but I don't know how I feel right now. I don't want to comment on the past but things are still in transition so I don't want to make false comments about the future. I am trying to change but I don't want to just say words about how I am changing...I would rather just let you see that I have changed and that I mean business." I left it at that, then he got sort of defensive and said "well I can say 5 words" (but I can only remember 3 now) Growing, great, stressful (which he hurridely added sometiems before stressful) and he said great in this tiny voice like he was just saying it to say it.

So I guess he is about as happy as I am. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

He has improved in some ways he no longer LB's as much as he did and no longer makes me the butt of his chauvanistic jokes. He has even began to compliment me in front of others for my accomplishments which feels good so there is a little progress on his part. We were in bed on Thursday and he told me how proud he was of me returning to school. He even said that I was ambitious and determined and that he admired me. I told him that he had no idea how much it meant to me to hear those words from him. I then told him that I was thankful that he was working hard to be a provider for the family and that w/o his support I would not have the chance to be in school. So there are some positive things going on around here. At least we are being more careful with each others feelings and the sarcasm on both of our parts has reached almost zero.

I am more concious of it because it is part of me working on myself according to the MB principles but he has cut down on it to almost nil because every time he has made a sacrcastic zinger toward me I have refused to take the bait. Instead I say that it hurts and then I tell him that if we have a problem I would rather talk it out then use sarcasm. Since he has no one to play the game with him it's becoming less of a usueful tool for him.


Honestly speaking though, I just don't know if I can ever trust him again after so many lies. I also feel like I am just waiting for the other shoe to drop all of the time. I feel like if I am not 100% on watch that he will start his games of flirting and goodness knows what else and it sucks to have to live this way. I don't want to live my life, watching, waiting, and worrying. I don't want to have to snoop and check up after him. I don't want to have to verify everything he tells me.

I just don't want to. I feel like if I have to do all of that then what is the point of all of being married? I think the chance of me ever being truly happy for any length of time in this marriage is rather low but I want to give it a chance to work out.

I have a strong EN for total transparency and dishonesty is a major LB for me. I don't know if he is capable of being totally transparent and I also do not know what motivates him to have all of these inappropriate friendships with OW.

I think his mind set is just very different from mine. He tends to believe in the idea of romance and that things are destined to happen and out of our control. He even said to me when I was angry about one of his friendships that "You can't help who you are going to be friend's with...you just meet people and sometimes you click" He went on to say though that he would not cheat because he knows where to draw the line? He believes the idea of an EA is ridiculous. He actually feels that unless it is a PA then it's not cheating.

I am supposed to allow him to have whatever kind of non-physical relationship he wants with OW and just hope and pray that it never turns into anythig physical? I am supposed to trust that someone who believes that he is not in control of his feelings will never cross the physical line? That seems like a lot of mis-placed trust on my part and stupidity on his.

That sounds totally illogical to me but there is no convincing him. So you see the only reason he feels that he cannot have female friends is because of me. So what role does that place me in? The mother role of stopping him from doing something and we all know what happens when you try to mother anyone eventually they rebel.

I have played that role in the past but I refuse to do so anymore because I am NOT his mother and I don't want to be. I want a partner not another child.

Anyway, this post is mega-long and I intended to be short and sweet but this is where we stand and I don't know where to go from here.

Continue in Plan A. You are doing very well. At some point, when you have consistently shown him your changes, he is going to need to get on board. Either he will, or he won't.

But whatever happens, you will be a strong woman, and will move on to a wonderful life. Hopefully he will not take a chance of losing you.

Thanks believer. I agree, patience is called for from here on out. I hope we can work it our and have a great marriage someday but I can't do anything more than what I am doing without him taking an active part in working at this marriage.

I hope he does decide to join me in improving the marrige. I would really hate it if it took an EA turning into a PA before he gets a clue. I know they say never say never but I am saying never because if he has a PA that will be my breaking point. I feel that I have verbalized how I feel about that enough times for him to be forewarned and if he makes the choice for that to happen, even if he doesn't think he made a choice, then that will be it for me.

It's hard to watch and let someone you care about do things that will screw up their life but I know that I cannot control him so I have to let him live his life the way that he wants too. Yet at the same time I have my boundaries and if he crosses the final one then he will have to live with his choice.

I will update in the future when progress is made or our circumstances change for the (hopefully) good or (I sincerely hope not) the worst.

Well the drama continues. I can't believe that just today I decided to update on MB and it's the same day I find a new piece of info that looks suspicous.

I am sure that I have mentioned that I have access to all of the husband's email accounts as well as his Myspace? Well he only knew about my access to a hotmail account ad the myspace. What he doesn't know is that I have access to ALL of his accounts. I found it rather odd that he says nothing about me checking his accounts.

Anyway, I decided to check his Yahoo account and what do I see? He applied for a new Windows Live ID but had to use his yahoo account to verify his new Windows Live ID.

I get the picture, of course he doesn't mind if I have access to his hotmail and myspace because as I suspected he is creating new email accounts which he will never tell me about.

Humph, ack, I am so tired of him already. I care about him but I am just so very tired of all of the drama.


If things are fine then why the need for new email addresses?

Anyway, I am not saying anything but I am watching and waiting. I fully intend to find out what he uses his new account for.

In addition he has been running virus and spyware programs on his computer. Things that would make me go hummmm if I didn't know better.